The Hadron collider

[davehsug]

Yes, *suppose*. There are likely solid predictions that they cannot be sustained. Again, we have to trust the scientists on this since it's not possible for us to investigate ourselves (unless you're willing to devote several years of study to QFT and beyond).

What they are doing is based upon sound science, the most accurate theories in history (look up quantum electrodynamics). We are in a much more knowledgeable position than the A-bomb times.

Bit of a wild assumption there.

Can you go into more detail? Quantum theory is right, M Theory is different.

I don't see it as a "wild" assumption. I belive the universe is teeming with intelligent life. Many, far in advance of us, so obviously they will have been through this. Although that doesn't mean I believe in ufos, even were they to exist we're far too insignificant & primitive to be of interest.

Anyhoo, if you need a little comforting, I'll throw in the multiverse thing. They might destroy this one, but there are countless billions of others where we'll carry on as usual. Who knows we might even find one where the UK has winters & summers :lol:

Dave

[Red Raven]

It's getting cold!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7512586.stm

[Azores Hi]

That's a really interesting article, although the general physics of this collider are relatively simple (accelerating two opposing beams of protons using magnetic force) The actual complexeties of executing this experiment boggles the mind!

[BARRY]

seven trillion electron volts thats awsome bloody mind boggling

[sundog]

I just hope they know what they are doing.

[kippure]

I just hope they know what they are doing.

Its all going to end in tears

[sundog]

Its all going to end in tears

It will go arseways and we will all end up being killed by a black hole

[A.J]

It will go arseways and we will all end up being killed by a black hole

aww...look on the brightside, the earth would be compressed into an object approx 8mm in diameter......a far shorter walk to the corner shop when you've ran out of tinnies....

[J07]

seven trillion electron volts thats awsome B) bloody mind boggling

Yep, one 80-millionth of the energy required to power a 100W light bulb for a second.

[snowsure]

Yep, one 80-millionth of the energy required to power a 100W light bulb for a second.

Just to show the working out:

100W = 100 joules per second

So energy required to light a 100W light bulb for 1 second = 100J

1eV = 1.602 x 10^-19 J

So 1J = 1/1.602 x 10^-19 eV = 6.242 x 10^18 eV

Making 100J = 6.242 x 10^20 eV

Divide this by 80 million gives 7.8 x 10^12 eV (one 89-millionth would be a better calculation in my opinion!)

This assumes that 1 trillion eV is 10^12eV (1,000,000,000,000eV)

[BARRY]

Just to show the working out:

100W = 100 joules per second

So energy required to light a 100W light bulb for 1 second = 100J

1eV = 1.602 x 10^-19 J

So 1J = 1/1.602 x 10^-19 eV = 6.242 x 10^18 eV

Making 100J = 6.242 x 10^20 eV

Divide this by 80 million gives 7.8 x 10^12 eV (one 89-millionth would be a better calculation in my opinion!)

This assumes that 1 trillion eV is 10^12eV (1,000,000,000,000eV)

meaning, sorry to be thick

[snowsure]

meaning, sorry to be thick

Hi Barry

My reply (calculation) was aimed at J07's reply (post #87). It has no meaning except to explain where J07 had got his figure from. I do not know the meaning behind J07's reply (I can guess though.)

Hope that helps.

[J07]

meaning, sorry to be thick

It means: seven trillion electron volts is a lot of energy for a particle to have, but in our everyday life it's tinier than tiny.

[BARRY]

It means: seven trillion electron volts is a lot of energy for a particle to have, but in our everyday life it's tinier than tiny.

ah put into context that is a lot energy for a tiny particle

[Red Raven]

Seems the end of the world didnt arrive after all. :lol:

[A.J]

Seems the end of the world didnt arrive after all. :lol:

The 1st collisions apparently dont take place until 10th september according to Auntie Beeb......thats the day we'll know I guess?...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7563683.stm

[Red Raven]

The 1st collisions apparently dont take place until 10th september according to Auntie Beeb......thats the day we'll know I guess?...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7563683.stm

I better restock on the baked beans and make a new tin foil hat then.

[stewfox]

I better restock on the baked beans and make a new tin foil hat then.

Can report the 10th of September experiment went find and there was no time disturbances

[M'Lady]

I saw an exhibition about this at Liverpool museum recently.

As I explained to the Young Lords what the scientists were going to do, Eldest asked, "Is that really a good idea?"

I think he has a point.

[JRMcLeod]

Ermmm, i'm a bit concerned about this!!! How can scientists possibly know what the outcome of doing this will be when they have never witnessed it, how can they even imagine when they have no idea....I dont like the sound of this...Mini Black Holes?????? Thats scary!!!

[A.J]

Ermmm, i'm a bit concerned about this!!! How can scientists possibly know what the outcome of doing this will be when they have never witnessed it, how can they even imagine when they have no idea....I dont like the sound of this...Mini Black Holes?????? Thats scary!!!

I believe I have discovered the location of the very first micro-black hole created by the hadron collider......It is located in the Lloyds Tsb internet banking server computer.....Every time I put some money in, it disappears without trace from this universe...

[Red Raven]

Ermmm, i'm a bit concerned about this!!! How can scientists possibly know what the outcome of doing this will be when they have never witnessed it, how can they even imagine when they have no idea....I dont like the sound of this...Mini Black Holes?????? Thats scary!!!

All they're doing is observing what happens, or doesn't happen, naturally. It's an essential and important step towards the understanding of the underlying physical laws that govern everything.

[crimsone]

All they're doing is observing what happens, or doesn't happen, naturally. It's an essential and important step towards the understanding of the underlying physical laws that govern everything.

Yip... that's why radiation can sometimes be measured by the Curie. We know much more now, but it doesn't alter the fact that she's... erm... dead.

[sammie]

Yip... that's why radiation can sometimes be measured by the Curie. We know much more now, but it doesn't alter the fact that she's... erm... dead.

These black holes are tiny, and in reality aren't really "black holes" in the sense of the monsters lying out in space. They are tiny, were talking smaller than we can even see with electron microscopes. Created in a laboratory they blip in to existence, they blink back out. That is even if they are created. First of all the LHC has to be calibrated and their going to use it to be able to add on an extra decimal point to known measurements to make them more accurate. However, even if these “mini black holes” which really aren’t mini more “nano back holes” are created, they wont last long, the end of the world is not coming from them.

Plus a black hole only has the force of gravity of an object of the same mass. If a black hole had the same mass as our sun, of course that mass would be in a much smaller volume, but it would only have the same force of gravity has out sun. There for anything that’s far enough away, would just orbit the black hole like it would a star.

These “nano black holes” would have the same gravitational force to pull things in as the particle that created it, which would be around 9.1093x10^-31KG which is mind bogglingly small. So it wouldn’t have enough gravitational force to eat the universe, no where near it. The end of the world will not end, even if it does, on the off chance, on the very off change that it does due to some super morphing nano black hole we wouldn’t be around to moan about it.

[A.J]

These black holes are tiny, and in reality aren't really "black holes" in the sense of the monsters lying out in space. They are tiny, were talking smaller than we can even see with electron microscopes. Created in a laboratory they blip in to existence, they blink back out. That is even if they are created.

Provided of course that the 'hawkins radiation' theory is correct....electrically charged stable nano black holes would be attracted to the earths core by gravity and over a period of time would exponentially accrete matter...The good news though is that this process would take a time period greater than the time span in which the universe has already existed (13 billion years) so I agree, we're quite safe from that threat!

'Strangelet' creation is the one doomsday scenerio that intrigues me, the idea of the planet being transformed into 'strange' matter does not appeal to me in the slightest!