Scottish Met Office

[LomondSnowstorm]

just proposing a discussion on the need for our own met office

please add your thoughts below..

[morfius]

TBH it doesn't really matter that the data is processed in Exeter - as long as the weather stations in Scotland are in good order then there is no reason to spend millions on another supercomputer if there is already one available.

[Nick L]

Nah, waste of money. The current UK one is fine as it is.

[Mondy]

Nah, waste of money. The current UK one is fine as it is.

Not when it covers Scotland as a whole it isn't. Or when it dons its Anglo-centric specs' (sorry I meant the BBC for that!)

Scotland is vast in size and varying in weather almost all the time. Do the Meto have a full grip on the Western Isles weather right now? Do Net Weather?

And if I'm being real picky about Net Weather, inwhich I've mentined before, why is Scotland lumped as one entire region, whilst East Anglia, SW England, North / West England etc, etc given seperate areas for forecasts (on the warning maps?)

There's a good few hundreds miles between Aberdeen and Glasgow and I know for a fact Aberdeen was still ice-bound much of today whereas Glasgow was mild.

[Paul]

You're digressing off of the topic a tad, but to answer the question - there is a brand new homepage and alerts system in development now which, among other things has more regions for the alerts - inc across Scotland.

[Thundery wintry showers]

I'm pretty certain that the Met Office has a couple of small "mini-centres" away from Exeter, one of which is in Aberdeen (practically the opposite end of the country from Exeter). So since that's there, I see no need for a Scottish Met Office.

I'd have liked it if they'd kept the Weather Centres dotted around the country so there would be more opportunities for people who live in the central belt of the country to work for the Met Office without having to relocate to Exeter or Aberdeen, but this "rationalisation" of location is common among all companies these days. In any case I don't think it has made any difference to the reliability of the forecasts. The "dumbing down" of TV forecasts is largely the fault of the BBC and not the Met Office.

[Cookie]

You're digressing off of the topic a tad, but to answer the question - there is a brand new homepage and alerts system in development now which, among other things has more regions for the alerts - inc across Scotland.

Im looking forward to this. B)

[Paul]

Cough cough....

Scotland is actually a country Paul.....honestly. Not a region. A bit like the West Country but with a little more history. B)

Of course the chief weather dude would have to be Sean Batty, but I can live with that. Go seany........

Cough, cough - read what I said, I'm fully aware that Scotland is a country!!! We are going to add regions, including across Scotland - ie there will be more than one region of Scotland within the alert system!

[Guest]

It does not matter where the office is, provided they have right information relative to the area of where they are wishing to make a forecast having said this it would probably help if within that office they had specialists of particular areas, if they do not already.

[osmposm]

As far as I'm concerned, Scotland is more than welcome to have its own Met Office - as long its fairly small population (8% or so of the UK's) is happy to pay for it, unlike many of the financial privileges granted by the Scottish Parliament to its people.

The Met Office is 'owned' by the Ministry of Defence, and in fact has been running at an operating profit for some years - £13m in 2008. However, to set up a separate organisation, much of it just duplicating equipment, staff and activities, would be enormously costly - even allowing for an assumption that 8.2% of the current one 'belongs' to Scotland: that leaves 91.8% of it that does not! Now I imagine that if it ever happened, the MOD and the taxpayers of England, Wales & NI, would be expected to stump up more like 30% of its asset value for Scotland out of post-colonial guilt/reparations for lost oil revenue etc etc, so we would all, on both sides of the border, end up paying the huge capital cost.

I would also guess that it would be impossible to run Scotland's own service at anything like a profit, since most of the organisations - the Civil Aviation Authority and airlines, for example - that pay for data from the Met Office would feel they didn't need to pay again for info they already get now: would Met Office (England & Wales)'s info on the snow risk at Aberdeen-Dyce be likely to be that much inferior to Met Office (Scotland)'s? I doubt it.

So you would be talking about a hugely increased cost, both capital and running, to be born by someone in perpetuity for the practical benefit of most probably a very small number of people in very out of the way areas. I don't think even the good burghers of Glasgow would buy that one. And however diverse the climate, it is worth remembering how tiny our (still!) combined country is - about the same size as the State of Oregon.

[Blizzardo]

My feeling is that, in general, the Met Office forecasting and reporting of weather for the whole of the UK works well as it is.

What I think irked some north of the border and maybe even part of the north of England, more especially in the latter part of this winter, were some of the Met Office warnings and the feeling that they were overplaying what was going on in the south east of England in particular and missing prior warning of a few weather events in Scotland.

It seemed on some occasions, after the London snow event, that for a week or so that the Met Office got caught up a bit in the media excitement and this was reflected somewhat in their warnings.

In some ways I do think its maybe understandable due to the greater population and the inconvenience or even danger that the weather can cause to a greater number. They are obviously very wary of missing the intensity of an event and the criticism that this could generate.

As long as the Met Office strive for accuracy throughout the UK and fend off the some of the south east centric media reporting then continuation of the way things are now is fine by me.

[Richard Taylor]

There was a big fuss kicked up locally when the Met Office were looking to close the Aberdeen office & relocate lock, stock & two smoking weather fronts to Exeter. In the end, they retained a presence...whether their forecasts are accurate though is open to conjecture - even locally!!

[NorthernRab]

Scotland should definitely have its own Met Office, Ireland has its own so why shouldn't we? Just because we are part of the UK? Also, the warning system can be heavily focused on England and Wales during times of severe weather.

Here's another way of looking at it: why should jobs, paid for (I assume because it's a government body) by the people of Scotland, be in the south of England when they concern Scottish weather?

Edited February 14, 2009 by NorthernRab

[Nick L]

Scotland should definitely have its own Met Office, Ireland has its own so why shouldn't we? Just because we are part of the UK? Also, the warning system can be heavily focused on England and Wales during times of severe weather.

Here's another way of looking at it: why should jobs, paid for (I assume because it's a government body) by the people of Scotland, be in the south of England when they concern Scottish weather?

Perhaps because Ireland is a completely different country! England and Scotland are part of the UK, Ireland are not.

[NorthernRab]

Perhaps because Ireland is a completely different country! England and Scotland are part of the UK, Ireland are not.

I'm afraid that you just repeated what I've already said - 'Just because we are part of the UK?'.

Consider devolution, should Scotland not forecast its own weather, in the same way that it manages its own healthcare, transport, education and the like? The fact that Ireland is a different nation is of no importance.

[johnholmes]

and Scotland has a spare £20m for an identical computer to that used at Exeter?

And the Scottish tax payer would be willing to do that?

I suspect not.

Edited February 14, 2009 by johnholmes

[NorthernRab]

As far as I'm concerned, Scotland is more than welcome to have its own Met Office - as long its fairly small population (8% or so of the UK's) is happy to pay for it, unlike many of the financial privileges granted by the Scottish Parliament to its people.

Scotland is given such financial privileges due to its contribution to the UK's oil reserve. I may be wrong but I'm fairly sure that Scotland is the most oil-rich country in Europe, excluding western Russia.

and Scotland has a spare £20 for an identical computer to that used at Exeter?

And the Scottish tax payer would be willing to do that?

I suspect not.

Well if we become independent which is looking increasingly likely then I suppose we'll have to.

[Mark Bayley]

If Scotland is willing to pay for it then its fine by me. I can't see a problem with the current metoffice.

[Dartmoor_Matt]

I'm afraid that you just repeated what I've already said - 'Just because we are part of the UK?'.

Consider devolution, should Scotland not forecast its own weather, in the same way that it manages its own healthcare, transport, education and the like? The fact that Ireland is a different nation is of no importance.

I think that you might be mistaken there... you aren't devolved to the point of being a Sovereign State, and besides, you might manage them, but I'm fairly sure you don't fund 100% of them... but I'm game if you are. Hell, I'd love a tax cut as a result!

[NorthernRab]

I think that you might be mistaken there... you aren't devolved to the point of being a Sovereign State, and besides, you might manage them, but I'm fairly sure you don't fund 100% of them... but I'm game if you are. Hell, I'd love a tax cut as a result!

As a law student, I'm well aware that we are not a sovereign state. What's your point regarding this though? That you have to be a sovereign state to have your own met office - if so, that's laughable.

Edited February 14, 2009 by NorthernRab

[Yeti]

Scotland is given such financial privileges due to its contribution to the UK's oil reserve. I may be wrong but I'm fairly sure that Scotland is the most oil-rich country in Europe, excluding western Russia.

Well if we become independent which is looking increasingly likely then I suppose we'll have to.

I'm sorry but the question of Scottish finance makes me very angry!

As far as I am aware, Scotland is given a disproportionate amount of money compared to England due to its relative poverty compared to England. However, whilst it's easy to say that it's poorer, if you look, I think it's the second or third wealthiest region in the UK, once you break England down into London/SE, Yorkshire and Humber etc. Scotland is significantly wealthier than Yorkshire and the Humber, but we see less money coming in. It's extremely unfair because Scots go to university for free, whereas we have to pay. In fact, if you come from anywhere within the EU except England, it's free. As far as I am concerned it doesn't deserve such treatment. After all, it adds little to the UK's economy as a whole; it has rich oil reserves (although now very depleted), but cannot compare to the financial industry of the SE (again, a question of population). Also, oil won't last for ever! So if it gets independence, which as you say is looking more and more likely, no doubt it will come back on its knees to England as it remembers the privilages it once had as part of the UK and oil has run out. Without oil, I'm afraid, there's little economic potential there, as beautiful and friendly a country as it is.

A little OT but I had to say it. Wrt a Scottish Metoffice, I don't see any need, although I certainly think it should be broken down into smaller regions on the BBC especially, due to its climate being as varied as England's.

I think that you might be mistaken there... you aren't devolved to the point of being a Sovereign State, and besides, you might manage them, but I'm fairly sure you don't fund 100% of them... but I'm game if you are. Hell, I'd love a tax cut as a result!

That wouldn't happen - no doubt our taxes would increase to pay for a Scottish met office because of our "wealth"

[Dartmoor_Matt]

As a law student, I'm well aware that we are not a sovereign state. What's your point regarding this though? That you have to be a sovereign state to have your own met office - if so, that's laughable.

You implied your circumstances were the same as Irelands... when they are clearly not.

On the note of 'Independence'... does that mean we can have our £20bn back for the RBS then?

That wouldn't happen - no doubt our taxes would increase to pay for a Scottish met office because of our "wealth"

I was being 'ironic'

Back to the question in hand, no I don't think Scotland needs its own, but better covereage would be agreeable.

Edited February 14, 2009 by Dartmoor_Matt

[NorthernRab]

I'm sorry but the question of Scottish finance makes me very angry!

As far as I am aware, Scotland is given a disproportionate amount of money compared to England due to its relative poverty compared to England. However, whilst it's easy to say that it's poorer, if you look, I think it's the second or third wealthiest region in the UK, once you break England down into London/SE, Yorkshire and Humber etc. Scotland is significantly wealthier than Yorkshire and the Humber, but we see less money coming in. It's extremely unfair because Scots go to university for free, whereas we have to pay. In fact, if you come from anywhere within the EU except England, it's free. As far as I am concerned it doesn't deserve such treatment. After all, it adds little to the UK's economy as a whole; it has rich oil reserves (although now very depleted), but cannot compare to the financial industry of the SE (again, a question of population). Also, oil won't last for ever! So if it gets independence, which as you say is looking more and more likely, no doubt it will come back on its knees to England as it remembers the privilages it once had as part of the UK and oil has run out. Without oil, I'm afraid, there's little economic potential there, as beautiful and friendly a country as it is.

A little OT but I had to say it. Wrt a Scottish Metoffice, I don't see any need, although I certainly think it should be broken down into smaller regions on the BBC especially, due to its climate being as varied as England's.

That wouldn't happen - no doubt our taxes would increase to pay for a Scottish met office because of our "wealth"

Right, let's discuss this piece by piece.

Scotland doesn't allow English students to study for free because there are too many of them. There are a lot more English students in my university than there are European (Glasgow University). In fact, of the 30 or so English students that I know personally, about 25 or so of them are of direct Scottish descent.

Scotland has constitutional jurisdiction over 90% of the UK's oil reserves.

The part in bold Yeti is actually quite offensive. Also, it's odd that you think there's little economic potential in a country with the highest number of university graduates per head of capita in Europe. However, I understand that this can be an uncomfortable issue for many English, and indeed Scottish people to discuss and I realise that it can sometimes be irritating.

You implied your circumstances were the same as Irelands... when they are clearly not.

On the note of 'Independence'... does that mean we can have our £20bn back for the RBS then?

Sure, as soon as you give us our oil money back.

Edited February 14, 2009 by NorthernRab

[johnholmes]

sorry I missed the m of the £20m but I'm sure everyone realised that!

[NorthernRab]

You implied your circumstances were the same as Irelands... when they are clearly not.

Oh dear, if you read my post I clearly did not. That's why I followed the part of my post which you highlighed with discussion of devolution. If we can control our own education and healthcare, I don't think that controlling our own Met Office would be too much of a struggle for us.