Scottish Met Office

[Yeti]

yep, i see place in the north of england as being more like parts of scotland than the south east (not just in being constantly overlooked :lol: )

Yep, especially considering the countryside - Nern England is very similar to the Southern Uplands and the Lakes are like the Highlands (if a bit smaller!)

Wrt the southern bias in the media - it's so obvious I cannot believe southerners cannot see it. The other day I was watching the news and they were talking of horrendous snow in the Midlands. The correspondent was there hyping up how bad it was and she was talking for ages about it, "blizzards", "drifting", "severe snowfall" etc.

Then the presenter asked her how much had fallen and she said 2 inches. Now I was sitting there and snow was still falling; 4 inches had fallen the previous night (10 in total) and it didn't even get a mention. And I hardly live in a remote area! Leeds is 25 minutes away and it's the 4th biggest city in Britain. This to me proves the southern bias, it is beyond doubt.

[Nick L]

Yep, especially considering the countryside - Nern England is very similar to the Southern Uplands and the Lakes are like the Highlands (if a bit smaller!)

Wrt the southern bias in the media - it's so obvious I cannot believe southerners cannot see it. The other day I was watching the news and they were talking of horrendous snow in the Midlands. The correspondent was there hyping up how bad it was and she was talking for ages about it, "blizzards", "drifting", "severe snowfall" etc.

Then the presenter asked her how much had fallen and she said 2 inches. Now I was sitting there and snow was still falling; 4 inches had fallen the previous night (10 in total) and it didn't even get a mention. And I hardly live in a remote area! Leeds is 25 minutes away and it's the 4th biggest city in Britain. This to me proves the southern bias, it is beyond doubt.

There is a southern bias in the media, I completely agree about that. But southern bias in the Met Office - I need more convincing.

[LomondSnowstorm]

Yep, especially considering the countryside - Nern England is very similar to the Southern Uplands and the Lakes are like the Highlands (if a bit smaller!)

Wrt the southern bias in the media - it's so obvious I cannot believe southerners cannot see it. The other day I was watching the news and they were talking of horrendous snow in the Midlands. The correspondent was there hyping up how bad it was and she was talking for ages about it, "blizzards", "drifting", "severe snowfall" etc.

Then the presenter asked her how much had fallen and she said 2 inches. Now I was sitting there and snow was still falling; 4 inches had fallen the previous night (10 in total) and it didn't even get a mention. And I hardly live in a remote area! Leeds is 25 minutes away and it's the 4th biggest city in Britain. This to me proves the southern bias, it is beyond doubt.

i know exactly how you feel!

on thursday we got 3-8 inches of snow around here, and the attention was focused squarely on the band's progress to london where it turned out to be maybe an inch of snow in places but hardly any in london itself!

apparently what is 'a bit of snow' here is an 'extreme weather event' in the south!!

(this is the media, not the met office, that described it thus)

[NorthernRab]

The thing is I can think of numerous occasions where there has been warnings for Scotland and very little for England and often I have asked myself "if only I lived in Aberdeenshire".

Since mid Dec its been a dreadful winter for Scotland mainly due to the lack of N,lys. So rather than blaming the Met O warnings, members from the S, you should all just accept that its just how it goes sometimes.

Aviemore has had a lot more snow than you have, and far colder temperatures. Inverness had freezing temperatures around hogmanay with hoar frost lasting for a long time, and some very low night time temperatures, but this only got a brief mention once.

There is a south bias, we get very little help from the BBC in particular, who are advised by the Met Office.

Also, the Met Office get night time minima for the Highland's embarassingly wrong, very often. I actually disregard their predictions.

Edited February 14, 2009 by NorthernRab

[Mondy]

But southern bias in the Met Office - I need more convincing.

You might like to ask Shetland Coastie that. Shed loads of snow they got up there the last few days - not one warning (not even a red alert!) and, get this, not even a yellow weather alert from the Meto. Tsk! I suspect you didn't know about the snowfall levels there - it wasn't well documented in the numerous UK news channels, was it?

However, you may reply saying that Shetland is an island group and has very few population compared to Edinburgh, let alone London. But, that is not the point and if anything backs up what others say about bias etc, etc..

Edited February 14, 2009 by Delta X-Ray

[Osbourne One-Nil]

...and of course other even poorer places in the North (Liverpool, parts of the NE and Cumbria).

What are you talking about?!

[Dave J]

Aviemore has had a lot more snow than you have, and far colder temperatures. Inverness had freezing temperatures around hogmanay with hoar frost lasting for a long time, and some very low night time temperatures, but this only got a brief mention once.

There is a south bias, we get very little help from the BBC in particular, who are advised by the Met Office.

Also, the Met Office get night time minima for the Highland's embarassingly wrong, very often. I actually disregard their predictions.

The Aberdeen office forecast minimum temperatures for Scotland, due to their local knowledge/expertise...

[LomondSnowstorm]

You might like to ask Shetland Coastie that. Shed loads of snow they got up there the last few days - not one warning (not even a red alert!) and, get this, not even a yellow weather alert from the Meto. Tsk! I suspect you didn't know about the snowfall levels there - it wasn't well documented in the numerous UK news channels, was it?

However, you may reply saying that Shetland is an island group and has very few population compared to Edinburgh, let alone London. But, that is not the point and if anything backs up what others say about bias etc, etc..

to be quite honest, northern scotland would be infinitely better served under the norwegian warning system than the uk one.

Geographically they are closer, even in the sense that the norwegian met office has to forecast for remote mountainous areas.

Ok, perhaps not mainland scotland, but Shetland and Orkney do seem far more akin to oslo than to london.

Luckily for the Northern Isles, they have their own weather servicehttp://www.northisles-weather.co.uk/ which is a prime example of what we could do if we set up our own met office.

And the met office should give as good a service to ALL parts of of the UK, not just the south of england. Meteorology should be entirely separate from geographical politics, or even population distribution as far as possible. It also needs to rethink what it sees as central Britain.Everywhere north of Birmingham is not 'the north.' Central Britain is somewhere between Manchester and Carlisle. Perhaps they need to rethink the use of the word Britain when they really mean England.

As for the above comment, I'm bewildered by that too!!

I always thought that cumbria was like argyll-a rural place with a few nice towns with the main industry being tourism. I never thought of it as being a poor area.

Probably a typo or some other error

[J07]

I'm not sure that diversity of climate is fair criteria for setting up a new Met office. With a good observation network, this problem should be overcome. There is only one Met office in NZ, and is the climate more diverse than Soctland, well, of course it is.

As an aside, I don't see Yeti's point about how oil won't last forever, when he also mentions financial industries. On current form, that isn't looking terribly sustainable- or at least not as bountiful as in previous years (I'm talking mainly about London here)!

As for Scotland's large number of graduates. OOC, what is the breakdown of their degrees? To push an economy forwards certain degrees are most useful. You need engineers, scientists and those skilled in languages. You don't need media studies graduates. And, Zimbabwe once had an exceptional educational system....but the economy was unable to absorb all these skilled graduates, and so they were somewhat wasted.

You also don't need a supercomputer to be a Met office, by the way.

[notananorak]

As someone who was directly a victim of the MetO's rationalisation of its infrastructure during 2006 when it shrank back to Exeter, Belfast and Aberdeen I feel I have something to add to this thread.

Forecasters at Aberdeen, as indeed I did elsewhere, had/have the authority to instigate warnings on their own initiative and have free input into the forecasting process at Exeter. The forecasters at Aberdeen, I can assure you, have their eyes on local weather and if the weather fit's the criteria for an NSWW then it will be issued. Remember the warnings are based on "disruption".

Quote: "Also, the Met Office get night time minima for the Highland's embarrassingly wrong, very often. I actually disregard their predictions."

Would these those shown on the BBC national charts? If that is the case then of course they are wrong unless you live near Glasgow, Inverness or Stornoway airports as those are the places that are forecast as a necessity within the Offices 11 cities Key Performance target - and the success of those forecasts is there for all to see here … http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/corporate/verification/city.html

This thread is about the need for a Scottish MetO. In my opinion you have one already. Aberdeen ( at least in 2006 ) can and did provide considerable input into the warning and media side of things. What else do you want? The media will always distort the message for their ends and snow in London is a story whereas falling in Shetland is not. If there is not a warning for that snow there it is Aberdeen's fault NOT Exeter's.

[Yeti]

What are you talking about?!

I said "parts of the NE and Cumbria", as in, "parts of the NE and parts of Cumbria"

Take a trip out to Maryport and you will see what I mean!

to be quite honest, northern scotland would be infinitely better served under the norwegian warning system than the uk one.

Geographically they are closer, even in the sense that the norwegian met office has to forecast for remote mountainous areas.

Ok, perhaps not mainland scotland, but Shetland and Orkney do seem far more akin to oslo than to london.

Luckily for the Northern Isles, they have their own weather servicehttp://www.northisles-weather.co.uk/ which is a prime example of what we could do if we set up our own met office.

And the met office should give as good a service to ALL parts of of the UK, not just the south of england. Meteorology should be entirely separate from geographical politics, or even population distribution as far as possible. It also needs to rethink what it sees as central Britain.Everywhere north of Birmingham is not 'the north.' Central Britain is somewhere between Manchester and Carlisle. Perhaps they need to rethink the use of the word Britain when they really mean England.

As for the above comment, I'm bewildered by that too!!

I always thought that cumbria was like argyll-a rural place with a few nice towns with the main industry being tourism. I never thought of it as being a poor area.

Probably a typo or some other error

Didn't you know, the North starts at Watford?

I class Northern England as Yorkshire northwards.

[Essan]

if Scotland decided to have its own Met Office, it wouldn't concern you since you're an English citizen.

It'd affect me because I'm a British citizen

What next? Mercia, Wessex, Strathclyde and East Anglia all wanting their own Met Office?

Oh, wait, Strathclyde includes parts of modern Scotland ...... ohh fight, fight, fight

Edit: Anyone offer 1 single way in which a Met Office based in Edinburgh would be more effectve with regards weather forecasts in Scotland than one in Exeter - or indeed, Los Angeles or Sydney? I can't think of any possible way it'd be better?

Edited February 14, 2009 by Essan

[Marcus_surfer]

Should there be a Scottish Metoffice? No.

[Yeti]

It'd affect me because I'm a British citizen

What next? Mercia, Wessex, Strathclyde and East Anglia all wanting their own Met Office?

Oh, wait, Strathclyde includes parts of modern Scotland ...... ohh fight, fight, fight

Edit: Anyone offer 1 single way in which a Met Office based in Edinburgh would be more effectve with regards weather forecasts in Scotland than one in Exeter - or indeed, Los Angeles or Sydney? I can't think of any possible way it'd be better?

Those areas aren't, and never have been, countries, whereas Scotland (compared to many areas in Europe such as Bavaria) has a very high degree of autonomy, on a par with the Basque Country and Cataluña.

[Essan]

What are you talking about?!

Typical upmarket Cumbria dwelling (home to a family of 12):

[Yeti]

Typical upmarket Cumbria dwelling (home to a family of 12):

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

That made me laugh did that!

[mountain shadow]

Should Scotland have it's own weather service?

Yes, is my answer.

Scotland has a more diverse and wide raging climate than Enlgland and would benefit from more local knowledge.

The snow on Friday was completely unforecast by the Met, where as the 'snow' events in England are well advertised if not completly over ramped.

Yes, some say that South East England is more important economically than elsewhere. All I can say is, did anyone even notice when London shut down last week?

[Essan]

Those areas aren't, and never have been, countries, whereas Scotland (compared to many areas in Europe such as Bavaria) has a very high degree of autonomy, on a par with the Basque Country and Cataluña.

They've all been ruled by a king and been independent of any other nation.

[Yeti]

Should Scotland have it's own weather service?

Yes, is my answer.

Scotland has a more diverse and wide raging climate than Enlgland and would benefit from more local knowledge.

The snow on Friday was completely unforecast by the Met, where as the 'snow' events in England are well advertised if not completly over ramped.

Yes, some say that South East England is more important economically than elsewhere. All I can say is, did anyone even notice when London shut down last week?

Not sure I agree with that - England's record temperatures exhibit a wider range than Scotland (-26 to 38 compared to -27 and 33 I think) and there is a huge difference between inland parts of the NE and the SW/SE (Scotland has no places that could be classed as "warm" in summer like London).

However it experiences more extreme weather events than England (snow, cold and windstorms), which affect Scotland more severely.

They've all been ruled by a king and been independent of any other nation.

...but currently are not countries and have no autonomy.

The only place in England that has an argument for being very "different" in terms of language, history and heritage (similar to Scotland) is Cornwall.

[Essan]

Should Scotland have it's own weather service?

Yes, is my answer.

Scotland has a more diverse and wide raging climate than Enlgland and would benefit from more local knowledge.

The snow on Friday was completely unforecast by the Met, where as the 'snow' events in England are well advertised if not completly over ramped.

Yes, some say that South East England is more important economically than elsewhere. All I can say is, did anyone even notice when London shut down last week?

But a Scottish Met Office would have the same data and be capable of isuing the same forecasts as one covering the whole of Britain.

Do you think the MetO issue better forecasts for Devon than for Sussex?

The only place in England that has an argument for being very "different" in terms of language, history and heritage (similar to Scotland) is Cornwall.

Would you agree then that the Highlands should be separate from sassenach Scotland? After all, the Highlands are very different in terms of language, history and heritage to Dun Eidean or Glaschu - and don't even get me started on Shetland!

But we're all British. Well, except possibly the Shetlanders

[Thundery wintry showers]

I've seen nothing to change my stance that as long as the Aberdeen centre stays there, there is no need for a Scottish Met Office. It is possible that getting rid of most of the regional weather centres may have reduced forecasting accuracy away from the south, but I'm not convinced that it has done- the north being neglected has been an issue ever since I first became interested in weather, a good decade or so before the weather centres were shut down.

I did notice that the Met Office handled the latest cold spell extremely well for the south, but not so well for the north. It's perhaps an area which could do with some improvement, but it is entirely possible to concentrate more on the north without having a separate Met Office for Scotland.

[TEITS]

Aviemore has had a lot more snow than you have, and far colder temperatures. Inverness had freezing temperatures around hogmanay with hoar frost lasting for a long time, and some very low night time temperatures, but this only got a brief mention once.

Wow Aviemore had alot of snow now theres a surprise.

Some of the posts on this thread are just silly TBH. How many times through the years has the Met O put out warnings for Scotland compared to S England?

Some people need to get a grip and realise that snowfall In S England is less frequent than parts of Scotland and due to the population can have a greater impact. If a tornado struck Oklahoma which then moved onto New York which do you feel would recieve the greater media attention!!

[Yeti]

Wow Aviemore had alot of snow now theres a surprise.

Some of the posts on this thread are just silly TBH. How many times through the years has the Met O put out warnings for Scotland compared to S England?

Some people need to get a grip and realise that snowfall In S England is less frequent than parts of Scotland and due to the population can have a greater impact. If a tornado struck Oklahoma which then moved onto New York which do you feel would recieve the greater media attention!!

The point is it's not just Aviemore. I have seen more snow than East Anglia (still have 10cm now in the garden) and this never got a mention. Nor were any of the warnings correct; ramps of 50cm for this area despite the radar showing 10cm max. In fact most of the snow fell when warnings weren't issued or were less severe.

The fact is that the N has generally seen more snow this cold spell, but the media would lead you to think the opposite. I do take your point though about it being much rarer in the S than up here and in Scotland.

Edited February 15, 2009 by Yeti

[Essan]

I'm pretty sure places like Austalia and Canada and the USA only have one Met Office - despite being much larger countries with much wider variation in climatic conditions ......

(I'm pretty sure they also have a ; ) smiley that winks!)

Edit: Yeti, you're in Yorkshire, so do you think Yorkshire should have a seperate Met O and do you really think that'd mean London based media would give more attention to weather in your area? Which to be honest seems to be the real issue here?

Edited February 15, 2009 by Essan

[Thundery wintry showers]

Depends on where in the north. Leeds has certainly had a lot of snow, but large parts of Scotland and the northern quarter of England have had less snow than the London area has had.

The point is still valid though- the snow for the Leeds area was not very well forecast.