United Nations Climate Change Copenhagen

[stewfox]

And while Canada is certainly not the whole picture, most of the concern about global warming has been fuelled by statements about warming in the Canadian arctic, statements which I find overblown and in some cases factually wrong. The polar bears in the Canadian arctic are not coming under any significant amount of stress, the anecdotal reports that are popular in the media consist of normal occurrences taken out of context, or misleading photographs showing bears on floating ice floes which conjure up thoughts "oh they must be drifting away from land, they're going to drown" when in fact these are perfectly natural occurrences in the daily lives of hunting polar bears.

Yes but they look sad/cute

http://images.google...sa%3DX%26um%3D1

I think you need to get your own catching headlines

[Solar Cycles]

Well it looks like the toys have been thrown from the pram, as the poorer nations realise that they are being screwed! For me this was always on the cards! Let's hope the IPCC is now put to rest, and let common sense prevail. No one should expect Africa, and all those other developing worlds, to stop playing catch up with Western civilization. Instead of wasting billions and billions on crackpot ideas, pump all that money, into viable alternatives we have at our disposal right now!

[Roger J Smith]

The event has become an event of Biblical proportions, at least in terms of "lying signs and wonders." And it's a media circus, because the media are drawn to these protestors as fellow travellers, I'm sure you get the same distorted coverage. Here in Vancouver, ten people show up downtown, strip down to their undies to "save the planet" and the media are there. But three thousand skeptics meet in a conference and nobody hears a thing about it (except on the internet).

This is so transparently political that the scientific community at large should be getting suspicious about the science involved. For example, there's the issue of the re-formatting of data to show that the MWP was not as warm as the 20th century, something not widely accepted before this issue became politicized. And it's an important issue, because if the MWP was as warm as the late 20th century, then it demonstrates that these levels can be sustained by the natural variability of the system at this point in the longer-term Milankovitch cycles.

And that reminds us that many tend to forget that we have already passed the optimum conditions of this inter-glacial, and that perhaps our attention should be more on the other side of the climate road ahead, where human intervention might be more plausible. I would submit, it would be relatively easier for the human race to prevent cooling of the planet than warming. We've already figured out one way to warm the planet, but there are others. And in the longer term, we may need to be doing that to forestall glaciation in the distant future.

Even a shift to a "Little Ice Age" climate would be economically more challenging than a sea level rise of one metre, and this is certainly at least as possible as the warming outcome, yet nothing is said or done about that.

The "climate activists" are in reality political activists who want a communist form of government, world-wide if possible, with everything else that would come along with that. Or perhaps I am giving them too much credit, because some of them seem entirely empty-headed, just attracted by the "bovver" factor, it might be better to call them climate hooligans. One imagines them touring the ice margins of Greenland firing off salvos of liquid nitrogen to "defeat the heat" then making love to polar bears to show their solidarity with the beasts of the earth. Or was that on the news last night?

[Kiwi]

The event has become an event of Biblical proportions, at least in terms of "lying signs and wonders."

This is so transparently political that the scientific community at large should be getting suspicious about the science involved.

Roger ...... how could you say such things.

El Presidente Big Gordon is even heading out early ..... No doubt he's set on saving the world again!! :lol:

[VillagePlank]

I hope they decide to cull all the evil polar bears, and control all those pesky rapacious penguins. All that farting can't be doing the climate any good at all.

[Admiral_Bobski]

I hope they decide to cull all the evil polar bears, and control all those pesky rapacious penguins. All that farting can't be doing the climate any good at all.

Surely they'd want to keep the polar bears for photo opps?

:lol:

[VillagePlank]

Surely they'd want to keep the polar bears for photo opps?

Plenty of 'em in zoos. Cage 'em up, I say, cage 'em up. They'll have no ice to practice Nordic skiing on, soon, anyway. Perhaps if we cull, say, a million penguins, inflate them using bicycle pumps, and then the polar bears can walk all over our new floating cap at the top of the world.

Edited December 14, 2009 by VillagePlank

[Chris Knight]

I'm amazed at the level of dislike people show for both TB and GB. The only way I can understand it is that I, um, didn't have a awful lot of time for Mrs T....

Still, just goes to show, I suppose, that once we change govt AGW will simply disappear (no, not really, science isn't like that).

My daughter has just got me to re-read Orwell's "Nineteen-Eighty-Four". With my refreshed understanding of Newspeak and DOUBLETHINK, I can easily understand all the viewpoints in Para 1.

In Para 2, science, as much as, if not more than history, is open to revisionism (and of course it is this current revisionism that the "Deniers" attack and deplore, and the "Warmists" defend so fervently). How much could our government save if they just rolled several departments into a "Ministry of Truth"?

Yes, Dev, AGW may simply disappear, both in fact, and out of the public imagination, as soon as there are new political and economic windmills to joust at. It's an easy thing to do - officially rewrite the climate record for the past 1000 years, and blame the alarmism of the early 21st century on some misguided academic zealots. The basic tools are already in the public domain.

If it proves impossible (for Governments) to make money out of carbon credits, without criminals creaming off the money before any real benefits have been traded (as seems to have already happened), there is no point in actually pretending to control emissions any more.

Better to use the tried and tested mix of aerosols and black carbon to counteract the increasing greenhouse effect and cool us down - at least that's what we may be told.

Edited December 14, 2009 by Chris Knight

[Devonian]

The event has become an event of Biblical proportions, at least in terms of "lying signs and wonders." And it's a media circus, because the media are drawn to these protestors as fellow travellers, I'm sure you get the same distorted coverage. Here in Vancouver, ten people show up downtown, strip down to their undies to "save the planet" and the media are there. But three thousand skeptics meet in a conference and nobody hears a thing about it (except on the internet).

This is so transparently political that the scientific community at large should be getting suspicious about the science involved. For example, there's the issue of the re-formatting of data to show that the MWP was not as warm as the 20th century, something not widely accepted before this issue became politicized. And it's an important issue, because if the MWP was as warm as the late 20th century, then it demonstrates that these levels can be sustained by the natural variability of the system at this point in the longer-term Milankovitch cycles.

And that reminds us that many tend to forget that we have already passed the optimum conditions of this inter-glacial, and that perhaps our attention should be more on the other side of the climate road ahead, where human intervention might be more plausible. I would submit, it would be relatively easier for the human race to prevent cooling of the planet than warming. We've already figured out one way to warm the planet, but there are others. And in the longer term, we may need to be doing that to forestall glaciation in the distant future.

Even a shift to a "Little Ice Age" climate would be economically more challenging than a sea level rise of one metre, and this is certainly at least as possible as the warming outcome, yet nothing is said or done about that.

The "climate activists" are in reality political activists who want a communist form of government, world-wide if possible, with everything else that would come along with that. Or perhaps I am giving them too much credit, because some of them seem entirely empty-headed, just attracted by the "bovver" factor, it might be better to call them climate hooligans. One imagines them touring the ice margins of Greenland firing off salvos of liquid nitrogen to "defeat the heat" then making love to polar bears to show their solidarity with the beasts of the earth. Or was that on the news last night?

Roger, I could counter your mud slinging post with something as mud slinging by going on about the lies we get from certain sceptics blogs, by pointing out the plot by the rich few of this world to keep power that is holding up action to reduce our damaging effect on the atmosphere and the climate and by talking about the bovver boys and hooligans of the sceptic far right.

But what good would it do bar (as your post does) infame things???. Aren't such posts as your recent ones made simply to frighten people - in other words they're scaremongering?

Please, Roger, stop the incessant mud throwing of your recent posts, you're much better than that and, if you know so much about why the science is wrong, post that instead!

Edited December 15, 2009 by Devonian

[Solar Cycles]

Roger, I could counter your mud slinging post with something as mud slinging by going on about the lies we get from certain sceptics blogs, by pointing out the plot by the rich few of this world to keep power that is holding up action to reduce our damaging effect on the atmosphere and the climate and by talking about the bovver boys and hooligans of the sceptic far right.

But what good would it do bar (as your post does) infame things???. Aren't such posts as your recent ones made simply to frighten people - in other words they're scaremongering?

Please, Roger, stop the incessant mud throwing of your recent posts, you're much better than that and, if you know so much about why the science is wrong, post that instead!

The only scaremongering being done, is by all those who predict catastrophic warming, with little or no evidence Dev!

[Devonian]

The only scaremongering being done, is by all those who predict catastrophic warming, with little or no evidence Dev!

It's more likely than any scaremongering talk about commie plots to set up a world Govt...

But, again, lets look at the evidence, data and science not trade mud.

[VillagePlank]

The only scaremongering being done, is by all those who predict catastrophic warming, with little or no evidence Dev!

I should add, that one consequence of the work done on the LI is, erm, warming. Catastrophic if the ice sheets don't expand, there is no (significant) volcanic activity, ENSO index is always in it's warming phase, and solar cycles maintain an average (so no exceptionally strong solar cycles required) As current data indicates, according to the LI, perhaps, 25 years of above average anomalies still to come.

Edited December 15, 2009 by VillagePlank

[stewfox]

Gordon Brown was on BBC Oxford this morning who said many times he chose BBC Oxford!.

I wonder if he is looking for a Tony Blair type role.

I mean if he can spin this hype out for a few years after he goes next year he has his pension sorted.

Anyway he went on about about droughts floods etc blame all weather on CO2

It's a pity the guy at Oxford didn't ask him one simple question ah well

He has to come back with a peace of paper

'Peace in our times'

Nice he spent 2hrs after getting of his Jet talking to the Holland chap. Holland probably produces 1 /500^th of China CO2 ?

Prince Charles of course took another jet and flew over spent a few hours there and then flew back.

I hear most of the Jets have to land in another country not enough room for them in Copenhagen?

I also hear the limo trade is on the up

If it wasn't serious it would be laughable.

This is how the Nazi got to power

Edited December 16, 2009 by stewfox

[Devonian]

Gordon Brown was on BBC Oxford this morning who said many times he chose BBC Oxford!.

I wonder if he is looking for a Tony Blair type role.

I mean if he can spin this hype out for a few years after he goes next year he has his pension sorted.

Anyway he went on about about droughts floods etc blame all weather on CO2

It's a pity the guy at Oxford didn't ask him one simple question ah well

He has to come back with a peace of paper

'Peace in our times'

Nice he spent 2hrs after getting of his Jet talking to the Holland chap. Holland probably produces 1 /500^th of China CO2 ?

Prince Charles of course took another jet and flew over spent a few hours there and then flew back.

I hear most of the Jets have to land in another country not enough room for them in Copenhagen?

I also hear the limo trade is on the up

If it wasn't serious it would be laughable.

This is how the Nazi got to power

Godwin!

[Admiral_Bobski]

Godwin!

You can't just cry "Godwin!" every time someone makes an allusion to the Nazis, Dev. Sometimes a Nazi parallel is actually valid.

(I'm not saying that this is necessarily such a case, but you're fast turning into "The Boy Who Cried Godwin".)

CB

[Devonian]

You can't just cry "Godwin!" every time someone makes an allusion to the Nazis, Dev. Sometimes a Nazi parallel is actually valid.

(I'm not saying that this is necessarily such a case, but you're fast turning into "The Boy Who Cried Godwin".)

CB

What, because I've said it twice? I think it's you calling me tbh . Anyway, if all I achieve is making people stop for a second before they cry 'Na*i' I think I might have achieved something constructive. I can think of nothing about the debates we engage in merits such a description.

[Methuselah]

Behave!

[rob48]

Looks like Jonah Brown's influence is being felt almost instantly:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/dec/16/connie-hedegaard-copenhagen-resigns

Yup, he's there alright:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8415307.stm

[Admiral_Bobski]

What, because I've said it twice? I think it's you calling me tbh . Anyway, if all I achieve is making people stop for a second before they cry 'Na*i' I think I might have achieved something constructive. I can think of nothing about the debates we engage in merits such a description.

Twice this week, perhaps...

:lol:

CB

[rob48]

Excellent.

Ended as it started.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article6962344.ece

Waste of time and ENERGY but served its purpose as a useful political diversion.

Just like the others.

[jethro]

No real surprises there then.

Did anyone seriously expect a different outcome?

[laserguy]

How many years have these pointless (as far as climate goes) talks been going on for? How much money totally wasted? How much more money and years will be wasted on these jamborees? Why don't we just have a resource war right now and be done with? - because that's how it'll all end,I'm thinking. And all the while there'll be hurricanes an' droughts an' floods an' blizzards an' the rise and fall of ice extents an' stuff,just as there ever was and just as there will be when our civilisation(?) has gone the way of myriad others before it.

[Solar Cycles]

How many years have these pointless (as far as climate goes) talks been going on for? How much money totally wasted? How much more money and years will be wasted on these jamborees? Why don't we just have a resource war right now and be done with? - because that's how it'll all end,I'm thinking. And all the while there'll be hurricanes an' droughts an' floods an' blizzards an' the rise and fall of ice extents an' stuff,just as there ever was and just as there will be when our civilisation(?) has gone the way of myriad others before it.

No, no, no, your wrong laserguy! Don't you realise, that catastrophic climate events, only came about after the discovery of AGW!

[rob48]

I'll be glad when this non-event drops out of the news agenda.

If I have to listen to ignoramus Prescott babble on about "when we did Kyoto" one more time I may well become extremely violent.

You'd think he'd have a secretary to molest at this time of year.

[Devonian]

I'll be glad when this non-event drops out of the news agenda.

If I have to listen to ignoramus Prescott babble on about "when we did Kyoto" one more time I may well become extremely violent.

You'd think he'd have a secretary to molest at this time of year.

Last time I looked at this thread all I saw was mud flying about, nothing has changed...