In The News

[Gray-Wolf]

Well i wish you luck with it 4! I imagine the Carboniferous is lies pretty much below your land and the shales, on top of the coal measures and before the millstone grits, will be part of the area they're gonna be after?

I remember, back at A' level Geology, reading about what happened when the U.S. military tried to dispose of nerve gas into the rocks below. Pretty soon decided against it!

The worst of this is the signal that the current Govt. is giving out. Pushing away alternatives whilst expanding fossil fuel use. Even if we ceased all fossil fuel use tomorrow we'd still inherit 1,000yrs of issues from the GHG's we have already commited to the atmosphere but that is still not enough! Let's make the next years to come even higher in GHG releases than this years record emissions......

Maggie and Reagan have so much to answer for from implementing their Chilean social experiment!!

[knocker]

While one would be all for the job creation and reduction of gas prices, the situation with climate change at the moment would make one move towards different methods of producing energy which does not add to the warming of the planet, but then again I am saying this before the study on the gas itself is published.

Well there is always this.

Atlantic Array - The Proposal

http://www.rwe.com/web/cms/en/354740/rwe-innogy/sites/wind-offshore/developing-sites/atlantic-array-offshore-wind-farm/the-proposal/

[knocker]

Excellent, ignoring the pathetic scaremongering and hand-wringing greenies - decision made

http://www.independe...as-8373865.html

The irony of this is apparent with the melt in the Arctic no doubt welcomed by 4.

The area north of the Arctic Circle has an estimated 90 billion barrels of undiscovered, technically recoverable oil, 1,670 trillion cubic feet of technically recoverable natural gas, and 44 billion barrels of technically recoverable natural gas liquids in 25 geologically defined areas thought to have potential for petroleum.

The U.S. Geological Survey assessment released today is the first publicly available petroleum resource estimate of the entire area north of the Arctic Circle.

http://www.usgs.gov/newsroom/article.asp?ID=1980

[BornFromTheVoid]

Loads of videos from the AGU meeting posted up...

http://www.youtube.com/user/AGUvideos/videos?view=0

[knocker]

DURHAM, NH, December 5, 2012 - While science has often focused on big-scale, global climate change research, a study published today in the journal Bioscience suggests that long-term, integrated and site-specific research is needed to understand how climate change affects multiple components of ecosystem structure and function, sometimes in surprising ways

http://nrs.fs.fed.us/news/release/site-specific-long-term-research-on-climate-change

[knocker]

Experts available to discuss new paper detailing global sea level rise scenario

On December 6, NOAA will release a technical report that estimates global mean sea level rise over the next century based on a comprehensive synthesis of existing scientific literature. The report finds that there is very high confidence (greater than 90% chance) that global mean sea level will rise at least 8 inches (0.2 meters) and no more than 6.6 feet (2 meters) by 2100, depending upon uncertainties associated with ice sheet loss and ocean warming.

The actual amount of sea level change at any one region and location greatly varies in response to regional and local vertical land movement and ocean dynamics. The ranges of global mean sea level rise estimates detailed in this study will help decision makers prepare for and respond to a wide range of future sea level rise and coastal inundation.

Higher mean sea levels increase the frequency, magnitude, and duration of flooding associated with a given storm. Flooding has disproportionately high impacts in most coastal regions, particularly in flat, low-lying areas. In the U.S., over eight million people live in areas at risk to coastal flooding, and many of the nation's assets related to military readiness, energy, commerce, and ecosystems are already located at or near the ocean.

The report provides a synthesis of the scientific literature on global sea level rise, and presents a set of four global mean scenarios to describe future conditions for the purpose of assessing potential vulnerabilities and impacts.It was authored by a panel of scientists from multiple federal agencies and academic institutions, and will be used to support the National Climate Assessment - a U.S. interagency report produced once every four years to summarize the science and impacts of climate change on the United States.

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2012-12/nh-eat120512.php

[laserguy]

Even if we ceased all fossil fuel use tomorrow we'd still inherit 1,000yrs of issues from the GHG's we have already commited to the atmosphere....

Even if that was true (chortle),so what - you immortal or something? Anyways lets get up there for that oil before some bugger else does - I'm heartily fed up of spending such a disproportionate amount on petrol just to earn a crust,and I'm getting too old to be legging it all the time.

[Gray-Wolf]

http://www.arctic.noaa.gov/reportcard/

Well we knew it was bad but here's the official view.

[knocker]

4. December 2012: How cold will a winter be in two years? New study shows: climate models still struggle with medium- term climate forecasts

Potsdam/Bremerhaven, 4 December 2012. How well are the most important climate models able to predict the weather conditions for the coming year or even the next decade? The Potsdam scientists Dr. Dörthe Handorf and Prof. Dr. Klaus Dethloff from the Alfred Wegener Institute for Polar and Marine Research in the Helmholtz Association (AWI) have evaluated 23 climate models and published their results in the current issue of the international scientific journal Tellus A. Their conclusion: there is still a long way to go before reliable regional predictions can be made on seasonal to decadal time scales. None of the models evaluated is able today to forecast the weather-determining patterns of high and low pressure areas such that the probability of a cold winter or a dry summer can be reliably predicted.

http://www.awi.de/en/news/press_releases/detail/item/how_cold_will_winter_be_in_two_years/?cHash=c9061d805a32e3e9b2809371dc07da2e

[knocker]

When you look at images of areas of China the similarities are striking? How long before the health issues drive them to rapid cleanup of their pollution?

Unlike us they do not have to develop the technology to clean up with as we have already done that job for them, all they need to do is spend the money!

Unfortunately the Chinese are still in the 19th century in many ways.

BEIJING – Seventeen workers died Wednesday in a gas explosion at a coal mine in southwestern China, the state-run Xinhua news agency reported.

The accident at the Shangchang mine in Yunnan province occurred at around 2:15 p.m. when 66 workers were inside, 49 of whom managed to escape unharmed, Xinhua said.

Chinese coal mines are the most dangerous in the world, with around 3,000 deaths occurring annually due to lack of safety measures and cave-ins caused by overexploitation.

Coal supplies between 60 percent and 70 percent of the energy needs of the world’s second-largest economy.

http://www.laht.com/...ategoryId=12395

Edited December 7, 2012 by knocker

[laserguy]

Unfortunately the Chinese are still in the 19th century in many ways.

Last time I looked, they were also the world's heaviest consumer of cigarettes and the rate of uptake was rising rapidly. Carry on like that and they'll all be dead of lung cancer before global warming gets 'em.

[Balls Of Snow]

Last time I looked, they were also the world's heaviest consumer of cigarettes and the rate of uptake was rising rapidly. Carry on like that and they'll all be dead of lung cancer before global warming gets 'em.

Ah but they have lower rates of lung cancer than here in the west, it's known as the asian paradox.

[laserguy]

Ah but they have lower rates of lung cancer than here in the west, it's known as the asian paradox.

To paraphrase the warmists, maybe it's still "in the pipeline" for them, being a habit which has only comparatively recently found popularity.... or maybe mung beans and water chestnuts have some hitherto undiscovered cancer-fighting compounds!

[knocker]

To paraphrase the warmists, maybe it's still "in the pipeline" for them, being a habit which has only comparatively recently found popularity.... or maybe mung beans and water chestnuts have some hitherto undiscovered cancer-fighting compounds!

Not a very good paraphrase as it's been a fact for some years. As was the link between smoking and cancer, but conveniently ignored by vested interests.

Edited December 7, 2012 by knocker

[Gray-Wolf]

C'mon Knocks! L.G. has made it abundantly clear from his recent post he cares little for past or future? His life span is all that is of importance and more over that it is one filled of the comforts he can afford? I envy him his outlook and determination not to have an ever direr predicted future deter him from it?

My only wonder is why he continues to trouble himself with the board? Surely , by now, the pattern has become obvious that science is refining it's predictions as to our impacts and the results are becoming ever bleaker. The evidence of change is becoming ever more solid, if not a little ahead of times?, and the prospects ,as ignored by the powers that be, ever more the worse case scenario?

I worry for my children. We have had a splendid , if impoverished, childhood. Once the food/energy prices dig deeper , over the coming months/years (even my spuds have put on over a quid a shop in the last 6 weeks!!!) then this will alter for them as money gets diverted from 'their wants' to the Families 'needs'. This part of 'ignoring it all I do not get?

In the 60's and 70's you could see why inflation went bonkers. today inflation is hidden in the myriad ways of measuring it and the 'reasons' are dressed as economic with the 'supply and demand' hidden away. As climate disasters continue the impact on the shopping basket will start to challenge the energy price hikes. The sugar for home brew might be the price that forces L.G. into acceptance that 'change' is now something outside of fiscal control?

[laserguy]

Ha - I don't use sugar in me homebrew GW; that's reserved for cheap and nasty swill I won't partake of! And I grow me own hops. Maybe you should try the same instead of contributing to the CO2 emissions of big brewing. And spuds aren't all that tricky either if the price of them troubles you so much. Nah, I don't much care for the future beyond my lifetime - every generation has it's own fears and problems to deal with and future ones won't be any different. We've come thru' visitations such as AIDS, HN51 or whatever it is for bird flu, BSE, Y2K, MAD etc etc. AGW (so many acronyms!) being the latest and most enduring but which will eventually fall by the wayside. Best I can do is insure my life for the benefit of my dependents should I suffer an early demise. knocker - what's "been a fact for some years"??

[4wd]

Increased winter snows boost Himalayan glaciers

Even after years of research on glaciers and climate of Himalayas, scientists have failed to learn the pattern of the weather here. While scanty snowfall and rising temperature in last decade had sparked the possibilities of fast shrinking of glaciers, good spells of snowfall in last three years have changed the trend with glaciers almost growing to their original size

http://articles.time...aciers-snowfall

Edited December 8, 2012 by 4wd

[BornFromTheVoid]

Increased winter snows boost Himalayan glaciers

http://articles.time...aciers-snowfall

That's not really what the article shows (though the poor English/translation makes it a little awkward to interpret).

The article makes quite a few claims without any evidence or references, but in general, the rest of the article backtracks on it's initial stance. Anyway, 3 winters of heavy snowfall does not make a new trend in glacial ice growth! Sure, as the claimed large snowfall melts it will provide some water, but you need more that just a heavy snowfall in winter to "rejuvenate" glaciers.

[4wd]

More good news about fracking and energy reserves.

Blackpool is sitting on one of the biggest shale gas fields in the world — with a reserve of 200 trillion cubic feet lying under the Lancastrian countryside.

To put that figure in perspective, it’s enough gas to keep the UK going for 50 years and create more than 5,000 jobs.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2244822/Thought-running-fossil-fuels-New-technology-means-Britain-U-S-tap-undreamed-reserves-gas-oil.html

[4wd]

3 winters of heavy snowfall does not make a new trend in glacial ice growth! Sure, as the claimed large snowfall melts it will provide some water, but you need more that just a heavy snowfall in winter to "rejuvenate" glaciers.

There has been plenty of capital made about them shrinking, which was due as much to reduced snowfall as warming/melting.

The articles states there has been significant recovery in glacier mass.

I don't see why there is any need to suggest they are idiots because they can't speak English properly.

[4wd]

I worry for my children. We have had a splendid , if impoverished, childhood. Once the food/energy prices dig deeper , over the coming months/years (even my spuds have put on over a quid a shop in the last 6 weeks!!!) then this will alter for them as money gets diverted from 'their wants' to the Families 'needs'. This part of 'ignoring it all I do not get?

You must be delighted with the news about vast gas reserves about to be tapped.

Your children's future never looked brighter provided the greens aren't allowed to block progress.

[Methuselah]

Why don't we just dig-up the entire country, and turn it into one big quarry? You know it makes (fracking) sense!

And the International O&G conglomerates could rip us all off, until kingdom come!

All praise the oligarchs...Amen.

[BornFromTheVoid]

There has been plenty of capital made about them shrinking, which was due as much to reduced snowfall as warming/melting.

The articles states there has been significant recovery in glacier mass.

I don't see why there is any need to suggest they are idiots because they can't speak English properly.

I didn't suggest they were idiots, just that the English and/or translations in it were poor.

The article doesn't mention glacial mass even once.

When it claims glaciers have almost returned to their original size due to three winters of heavy snowfall, without giving any reference or any evidence, it's more than a little difficult to trust, especially when there is a lot more to glacial growth than winter precipitation. Surely you can agree with that?

Do you really think we should be taking online articles, that provide no evidence for their claims, as proof of anything though?

[knocker]

.

The articles states there has been significant recovery in glacier mass.

Very odd.

Greenland Ice Sheet outlet glaciers: Zebras no more

Overall in Greenland, the rate of area loss in marine-terminating glaciers during the 2010 melt season (419 km²) was 3.4 times that of the previous 8 years. There is now clear evidence that the ice area loss rate of the past decade (averaging 120 km²/year) is greater than loss rates pre-2000. The exceptional extension of the ablation season in 2010 in southern Greenland indicates the vulnerability of these areas to expanded melt regions (Box et al, 2010).

The amazing aspect of Greenland glaciers is that (despite the specific variation in type, location specific fjord configuration, etc) their response has been as uniform and synchronous to global warming as has been observed. If this warming of the world persists long enough, the ice “banks†of Greenland will begin to fail. Those with the greatest reserves on their asset sheets and the fastest turnover, and thus having the greatest potential contributions to sea level rise over time, are:

• In the north, Zachariae (and to a lesser extent, Petermann)
  
• The fast flowing marine terminating outlet glaciers of western and southeast Greenland (Rinks, Umiamako, Helheim, Jakobshavn, Epiq Sermia and Kangerdlussaq)
  

http://www.skeptical...d_Glaciers.html

And I posted this originally in the Greenland thread.

http://www.the-cryos...6-4939-2012.pdf

Edited December 8, 2012 by knocker

[knocker]

Quite interesting.

Careful observers of the new "Black Marble" images of Earth at night released this week by NASA and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration have noticed bright areas in the western part of Australia that are largely uninhabited. Why is this area so lit up, many have asked?

Away from the cities, much of the night light observed by the NASA-NOAA Suomi NPP satellite in these images comes from wildfires. In the bright areas of western Australia, there are no nearby cities or industrial sites but, scientists have confirmed, there were fires in the area when Suomi NPP made passes over the region. This has been confirmed by other data collected by the satellite.

This nighttime image of Australia was cropped from the Suomi NPP "Black Marble" released by NASA and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration in December 2012.

Credit: NASA Earth Observatory/NOAA NGDC

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/NPP/news/aus-fires.html