SE, London and East Anglia Weather Discussion - Dec 2023 on

[snowblind]

24 minutes ago, Gowon said:

Boring cold week for us, then. 

Onto the next chase.

Yeah, looking like February after reading the met office latest long range outlook.

[JennyJane1]

2 minutes ago, Eagle Eye said:

I mean, watch out in Norfolk tomorrow... Maybe even 10 flakes could fall. 

Bank!!!!!

[Polaris]

31 minutes ago, Gowon said:

Boring cold week for us, then. 

Onto the next chase.

Shame no snow chances this time. Maybe Feb could deliver. 
 

I would rather boring over more soaking rain though 

[snowblind]

Ok getting desperate now but GEM has something getting pulled into Kent and East Anglia north of the main system on Wednesday. No accumulation of snow shown so probably nothing to get excited about.

[Gowon]

9 minutes ago, Polaris said:

Shame no snow chances this time. Maybe Feb could deliver. 
 

I would rather boring over more soaking rain though 

I totally agree, but it'll be back the following week.

P.s. We need the headbutting emoji back.

Edited January 14 by Gowon

[Gowon]

Looks like we've got cold drizzle very soon according to the radar.

[throwoff]

It’s going to be a messy thread next week.

Us folk in Kent and south of London in with a shot; north of London looking increasingly unlikely. 

[JennyJane1]

4 minutes ago, throwoff said:

It’s going to be a messy thread next week.

Us folk in Kent and south of London in with a shot; north of London looking increasingly unlikely. 

I remember many years ago the thread was divided north and south when that happened.

[Gowon]

JMA brings the ppn along the south.

[lassie23]

it's raining

[Bogman]

2 minutes ago, lassie23 said:

it's raining

Tis winter.

[Shaunado]

26 minutes ago, Gowon said:

JMA brings the ppn along the south.

Yeah, I was just going to say! Looking like an increasingly faint prospect across the models unfortunately. But snow or no snow, there's lots of crisp sunshine to enjoy!

[Froze were the Days]

Latest in the MAD thread according to Matt Hugo whom was really banging the cold drum (amongst others) for the 2nd half of Winter is that partly a displaced SSW (didn't think we were any where near one) has shuffled the pack not in our favour  hence mild for the foreseeable after this 'cold' spell...well there usually is an excuse from even the experienced ones, if not a SSW not working for us, it's the MJO stuck in the wrong phase or Indian dipole stuck in a positive phase...the excuses go on.

[Sparky68]

Think I'd take a mild Winter over this any day, this is Buffalo NY right now

 

 

[Eagle Eye]

Mr Deja and Mrs Vu are back. Remember them? 

[Tom Montalbano]

10 hours ago, lawrenk said:

Brilliant, thanks Tom.

Love that pause just after two minutes. Nothing marginal then for us SE ers!

Evening al,

Just a P.S. to LAWRENK's poser about February 1991, earlier this Morning.

Below, are some 500hPa/850hPa/2 metre temperature archive charts for 7th February, that Year:

   

If memory serves, the South Eastern Region of British Rail had recently invested in a new fleet of Trains.

The very fine powdery Snow fell at temperatures well below freezing, and pretty unusual for the U.K.

The strong Easterly wind blew the fine powdery Snow and it managed to find it's way into the electrical systems, of the new fleet of Trains.

And below, is a Wikipedia explanation on how the "The wrong type of snow"/the wrong kind of snow" phrase, came into being.

"The wrong type of snow" or "the wrong kind of snow" is a phrase coined by the British media in 1991 after severe weather caused disruption to many of British Rail's services. A British Rail press release implied that management and its engineering staff were unaware of different types of snow. 

The phrase originated in an interview conducted by James Naughtie on BBC Radio 4's Today Programme on 11 February 1991. British Rail's Director of Operations, Terry Worrall, was asked to comment on the adverse effects of the unusually heavy 1991 snowfall on railway services that winter. Worrall explained that "we are having particular problems with the type of snow, which is rare in the UK". Naughtie replied "Oh, I see, it was the wrong kind of snow," to which Worrall replied, "No, it was a different kind of snow". The exchange prompted a headline in the London Evening Standard saying "British Rail blames the wrong type of snow" which was swiftly taken up by the media and other papers.

The cold snap had been forecast and British Rail had claimed to be ready for the coming snow. However, the snow was unusually soft and powdery and too deep to be cleared by snowploughs – it needed snowblowers. The snow found its way into electrical systems and caused short circuits and traction motor damage in trains. For traction motors with integral cooling fans and air intakes pointing downwards – the type that is still common on British electric multiple units – the problem was made worse as the air intakes sucked up the loose snow. Meanwhile, the snow also became packed into sliding door mechanisms and into points, causing them to fail. In addition, low temperatures resulted in problems with electric current collection from the third rail.

Many electric services had to be replaced by diesel haulage, and emergency timetables were introduced. Long delays were commonplace – up to eight hours in some cases. The disruption lasted over a week.

It wasn't a great period for British Rail as a few Years earlier, they were the subject of ridicule again.

Again if memory serves, they had bought a Snow Plough from Norwegian Railways but it was of the wrong gauge, and not appropriate for the gauge of British Rail's, network.

But below is an image of a Snow-Blower that British Rail had sent down to the South Eastern Region, from the Scottish Highlands.

Here it is in action on the Hoo Peninsula in January 1987, so that oil supplies could get through from the refineries, at Grain:

The above image was reproduced with the kind permission of Ian Currie, Co-Author of the Kent Weather Book.

Below, are some 500hPa/850hPa/2 metre temperature archive charts for 12th January, 1987:

   

The above examples of February 1991 and January 1987, further proof that a "Beast from the East" scenario, courtesy of a Scandinavian area of High Pressure, rarely fails to deliver for our Region.

Regards,

Tom Q.  

Edited January 14 by Tom Quintavalle

[Sparky68]

Typical British press, nothing mystical behind snow on the rails and any snow is not good for the railways. Fact is that steel on steel creates brilliant friction, put anything in between 2 steel surfaces and it will lose traction.

[snowblind]

Still 4 degrees here. When's this cold air supposed to arrive?

[alexisj9]

21 minutes ago, Tom Quintavalle said:

Evening al,

Just a P.S. to LAWRENK's poser about February 1991, earlier this Morning.

Below, are some 500hPa/850hPa/2 metre temperature archive charts for 7th February, that Year:

   

If memory serves, the South Eastern Region of British Rail had recently invested in a new fleet of Trains.

The very fine powdery Snow fell at temperatures well below freezing, and pretty unusual for the U.K.

The strong Easterly wind blew the fine powdery Snow and it managed to find it's way into the electrical systems, of the new fleet of Trains.

And below, is a Wikipedia explanation on how the "The wrong type of snow"/the wrong kind of snow" phrase, came into being.

"The wrong type of snow" or "the wrong kind of snow" is a phrase coined by the British media in 1991 after severe weather caused disruption to many of British Rail's services. A British Rail press release implied that management and its engineering staff were unaware of different types of snow. 

The phrase originated in an interview conducted by James Naughtie on BBC Radio 4's Today Programme on 11 February 1991. British Rail's Director of Operations, Terry Worrall, was asked to comment on the adverse effects of the unusually heavy 1991 snowfall on railway services that winter. Worrall explained that "we are having particular problems with the type of snow, which is rare in the UK". Naughtie replied "Oh, I see, it was the wrong kind of snow," to which Worrall replied, "No, it was a different kind of snow". The exchange prompted a headline in the London Evening Standard saying "British Rail blames the wrong type of snow" which was swiftly taken up by the media and other papers.

The cold snap had been forecast and British Rail had claimed to be ready for the coming snow. However, the snow was unusually soft and powdery and too deep to be cleared by snowploughs – it needed snowblowers. The snow found its way into electrical systems and caused short circuits and traction motor damage in trains. For traction motors with integral cooling fans and air intakes pointing downwards – the type that is still common on British electric multiple units – the problem was made worse as the air intakes sucked up the loose snow. Meanwhile, the snow also became packed into sliding door mechanisms and into points, causing them to fail. In addition, low temperatures resulted in problems with electric current collection from the third rail.

Many electric services had to be replaced by diesel haulage, and emergency timetables were introduced. Long delays were commonplace – up to eight hours in some cases. The disruption lasted over a week.

It wasn't a great period for British Rail as a few Years earlier, they were the subject of ridicule again.

Again if memory serves, they had bought a Snow Plough from Norwegian Railways but it was of the wrong gauge, and not appropriate for the gauge of British Rail's, network.

But below is an image of a Snow-Blower that British Rail had sent down to the South Eastern Region, from the Scottish Highlands.

Here it is in action on the Hoo Peninsula in January 1987, so that oil supplies could get through from the refineries, at Grain:

The above image was reproduced with the kind permission of Ian Currie, Co-Author of the Kent Weather Book.

Below, are some 500hPa/850hPa/2 metre temperature archive charts for 12th January, 1987:

   

The above examples of February 1991 and January 1987, further proof that a "Beast from the East" scenario, courtesy of a Scandinavian area of High Pressure, rarely fails to deliver for our Region.

Regards,

Tom Q.  

Re not realising there are different types of snow, that's not surprising, I'm didn't know this either till I joined the weather community, and how many British rail bosses would be into this hobby.

[Nikki W]

A little sleet here in Basildon 5 min ago 

[steveinsussex]

24 minutes ago, snowblind said:

Still 4 degrees here. When's this cold air supposed to arrive?

Yeah 5 degrees here; warmer than during the day most days this last week!

[throwoff]

Sadly the latest Met forecast not looking good. Down to 25% chance it tracks into the South East now. Much more likely France get all the fun 

[Challock Weather]

Perhaps today's trough is moving south a little slower than modelled. Down to 1oc up here now

[Neilsouth]

@Paul Is mod section broken?

 

Warning issued by A.J

July 15, 2014

Content moderated - 2 days

Your content will need to be approved by a moderator

Haven't posted in that section or broken any rules in that group for awhile, as seen by 2014 Lol

[Captain Shortwave]

3 minutes ago, Neilsouth said:

@Paul Is mod section broken?

 

Warning issued by A.J

July 15, 2014

Content moderated - 2 days

Your content will need to be approved by a moderator

Haven't posted in that section or broken any rules in that group for awhile, as seen by 2014 Lol

Just a temporary thing on all posts, see Paul’s post in the model thread.

Edited January 14 by Captain Shortwave