Moans, ramps and banter

[Summer8906]

 danm It would be a complete travesty if we got 21C out of this spell of weather rather than waiting for a properly settled spell of weather. Rather like the temp record one time being held by the rather poor summer of 2019; I am glad that a proper summer like 2022 re-claimed it.

It would certainly also be a very worrying sign of climate change, 21C in a cloudy, windy, damp Atlantic spell in early April is just plain freakish.

Edited April 4 by Summer8906

[WYorksWeather]

 CryoraptorA303 It needs to trek quite a bit further north to be of any help to us up here!

In all seriousness, I think it's just the usual chopping and changing of things - we've had more of the rain so far in early April, but the south got hammered in March, so I think it's just reversion back to normal.

[Summer8906]

A very dull April so far. The 1st did provide some unexpected sunshine (given the dire-looking synoptic chart) but we've now had three days on the trot of cloudy conditions during the day and rain setting in during the evening, so 3 active frontal systems in the first 4 days of April, something that would be high frequency even for December.

Yesterday was relatively OK: the cloud base was high and it was bright at times, even saw a bit of brief watery sun in the afternoon. Today was poor though, with low cloud and frequent drizzle showers, becoming heavier and more persistent later.

Could be a really exceptionally dull first 10 days of April here, I can't see any day locally producing more than 2 hours of sunshine until next Thursday when a strong ridge could improve things, though the wind is still a little too SW-ly for my liking. So with perhaps 7 hours on the 1st and an average of say 1.5 hours from the 2nd-10th that would make perhaps just 20 hours for the first third of the month. Duller even than 2018 when we got two or three fine days around the 5th-7th.

Latest GFS then goes off on a northerly in FI followed by a "clean" high, which will no doubt drastically increase sunshine levels - if it happens.

Edited April 4 by Summer8906

[Summer8906]

 danm That was London today?!?

It's like another world. Not even remotely like that here, just a dull and damp day with frequent drizzle showers, as I said.

 

[CryoraptorA303]

 Summer8906 It got even brighter than that for a while here.

What on Earth is going on at the Hampshire coast for it to be this disproportionally dull?

[Summer8906]

 Alderc 2.0 Yes, that setup is always pretty ghastly here. Fully expecting Saturday to be 2hrs sun max, drizzle showers, and flatlining temps day and night in the mid teens.

Next Thursday (11th) is the first day in the coming week which might actually feel spring-like in these parts, providing the cloud stays away. (GFS shows it as anticyclonic albeit with still a slack SW-ly).

Edited April 4 by Summer8906

[LetItSnow!]

This windy but warm low pressure set up reminds me of an April version of August 2019. I remember this day well, it was blowing a gale but warm and humid at the same time. I wonder if it'll feel the same this weekend.

 

Perhaps rather troubling that the uppers this weekend may be warmer than then though!

[Summer8906]

 LetItSnow! Well, I didn't like August 2019 (aside from that one-week hot spell) so that's not the greatest of news...

I can't remember Friday 9th August specifically but IIRC every day from the 5th-18th was rather cloudy and cool, with frequent spells of drizzle showers and occasional more prolonged rain.

Edited April 4 by Summer8906

[Summer8906]

 CryoraptorA303 Onshore SW-ly wind, simple as that, I suspect.

[CryoraptorA303]

 LetItSnow! Ugh, don't remind me of that humid mess of a summer.

19 minutes ago, WYorksWeather said:

In all seriousness, I think it's just the usual chopping and changing of things - we've had more of the rain so far in early April, but the south got hammered in March, so I think it's just reversion back to normal.

This is exactly to do with the subtropical ridge though. In the winter the jet stream tends to be further south so the most intense rainfall generally falls along the south and east coasts as cyclones pass through. In the summer the jet is further north and the subtropical ridge migrates so the north and Scotland get more of the rain as the cyclones are generally deflected away from the south with much higher frequency.

Overall this is a more normal setup for the time of year though, it's really unusual for the south to be so disproportionally attacked in spring.

[In Absence of True Seasons]

 Summer8906 Honestly depends on whereabouts you are. I'm also in London (well, basically Essex tbf), and didn't see anything of that kind. 

It was dull and wet for much of the day in my area, with the odd scrap of sunshine that lasted in total about 15 mins.

This sort of weather is that type where you can drive 20 mins down the road and go from heavy showers to mostly sunny weather.

This photo I took around 3pm sums up today. I call it - "cloudy with a chance of crow (he's in the tree!)"

Edited April 4 by In Absence of True Seasons

[CryoraptorA303]

 Summer8906 Very likely. The Hampshire coast is in quite a vulnerable spot for it.

It might also explain why the Southampton area has significantly declined in being a hotspot since the 90s. Prior to then it almost always came up during heatwaves, 1976 being the most obvious example but it showed up in numerous others too. Now it's a complete no-show and irrelevance in terms of daily maxima or setting records, the last time it even appeared on the map was July 2014. Now it seems like stations to the east on the other side of the downs like Wiggonholt and Burlands Farm are much more important spots.

8 minutes ago, In Absence of True Seasons said:

London (well, basically Essex tbf)

Redbridge? I'm originally from round there.

Edited April 4 by CryoraptorA303

[In Absence of True Seasons]

 CryoraptorA303 No rain since Monday? Wow. Completely different to my area in East London / Essex. Another example as to how localised our conditions really can be.

We like to talk about our climate in terms of regions, so, "the SE has x,y,z" vs "the SW" or "the North East" etc...but I'm in the SE as are you and it's been raining every single day in my area this week, often very heavy showers too. 

[CryoraptorA303]

9 minutes ago, In Absence of True Seasons said:

We like to talk about our climate in terms of regions, so, "the SE has x,y,z" vs "the SW" or "the North East" etc...but I'm in the SE as are you and it's been raining every single day in my area this week, often very heavy showers too. 

Well, the "SE" doesn't really exist, in meteorology or otherwise. East London/Essex is better described as being in East Anglia, and East Malling (my nearest station) is right on the border of East Anglia and the South Coast. Any further SW of where I am and you're clustering more with what the South Coast, or rarely the Central Plains is doing. NE of me and you're in East Anglia's boat.

The current SWly flow will also favour my location and disadvantage yours, as it's crossing the Thames in your direction and picking up moisture on its way. There's also the downs to think about, oftentimes when I cross over to Gravesend the weather is considerably different and much closer to what administrative East Anglia is doing, which is why I put the climatic border south of the Thames and include the north Kent coast in meterological East Anglia. If I had to bet I would guess that Gravesend saw more similar conditions to you today than to me.

Edited April 4 by CryoraptorA303

[In Absence of True Seasons]

21 minutes ago, CryoraptorA303 said:

Redbridge? I'm originally from round there

Near! Wanstead. 

[danm]

 Summer8906 I certainly wouldn’t call 21c with sunny spells a tragedy! 

[danm]

38 minutes ago, In Absence of True Seasons said:

Honestly depends on whereabouts you are. I'm also in London (well, basically Essex tbf), and didn't see anything of that kind. 

Redbridge isn’t far at all from me, I’m in Chingford. There was sunshine today but it didn’t last too long before the cloud and a couple of showers rolled back in. 

….and Redbridge is in E/NE London, definitely not Essex. Hasn’t been part of Essex since the 60s! 

[CryoraptorA303]

 In Absence of True Seasons Really, I've not seen anyone describing Wanstead as nearly Essex... Normally that's east of Ilford these days. Romford is still very Essex-patriotic and hates being called part of London. I'm originally from Hainault and I remember everyone there said it was Essex. I definitely grew up saying I was from Essex. It was only after I'd moved away (NOT my choice!) in my teenage years that I retroactively embraced the East London title over the Essex one!

[CryoraptorA303]

1 minute ago, danm said:

….and Redbridge is in E/NE London, definitely not Essex. Hasn’t been part of Essex since the 60s! 

Ah yes, and this is the definition I go with, hence why I say I'm originally from East London, however there are still plenty of people round there who insist that it's Essex. Go to Havering and count the number of "Essex chip shops" and "Essex hairdressers" if you don't believe me

[danm]

 In Absence of True Seasons this was our brief sunny spell early afternoon. Looks like Wanstead would have also been in the clear spot. Maybe you were in the bog at the time! 

[Azazel]

 CryoraptorA303 as a layman, that’s definitely the case. 
 

The general public has been bombarded with articles and speculation that the south of England will soon have a Mediterranean climate. Most people associate the Med with heat. These constant sound bites about how the U.K. will soon be able to grow pineapples in Blackpool have definitely led people to believe it’s gonna get hotter and drier.

Not many of them expected us to turn into the lost city of Atlantis. 

[CryoraptorA303]

 Azazel Indeed, they forget that the Med has dull, mild and very stormy winters as well as the hot and dry summers.

[danm]

 CryoraptorA303 yep I grew up in Ilford and many people always used to say it was Essex, because it did technically used to be until the Greater London boundaries expanded in the 1960’s. But many of those eastern parts of G London are Essex influenced as it’s close by and used to be part of the county. 

Where I am now in Chingford is just within the border of G London, in Waltham Forest which is one of the 32 boroughs. But we’re only a 5min drive from Essex. 

[CryoraptorA303]

 danm It's an interesting one. Out of Ilford it definitely starts to feel more Essex-y, but this is a very blurred boundary that continues past the border. By Epping it's starting to feel a lot more Essex-y, but it's still not quite genuine Essex countryside yet. Further SE out of Havering you can probably argue that the border is even more blurred and continues to some extent up to Chelmsford before you're in genuine Essex/East Anglia country that hasn't been influenced in some way by London.

On the other side of the Thames in Kent there's really no such distinction, one minute you're in London and the next in Kent country. The North coast is a bit more interesting though, there's really nothing genuinely Kentish about the Dartford-Gravesend conurbation, it's all just an extension of SE London. One minute you're in Kent country, the next minute you're on the other side of the Downs and in what might as well be the London Borough of Gravesend. Thurrock doesn't have the same thing and it at least feels like you're starting to move further into Essex by then. Medway is also very Kentish, I've never really thought there's much Londonian about it aside from the people living there. The D-G conurbation and Medway are separated by green belt anyway.

14 minutes ago, danm said:

Where I am now in Chingford is just within the border of G London, in Waltham Forest which is one of the 32 boroughs. But we’re only a 5min drive from Essex. 

Where I'm originally from in Hainault, you could walk to Essex if you wanted! I even did it myself back in December 2022 when I was visiting with a mate. Annoyingly there is no grandiose "Welcome to ESSEX!" sign there, just an "oh hi, you're in Epping Forest now", likely to not annoy locals on the London side who think they're in Essex. That reminds me, there used to be an "ESSEX" sign on the M11 coming out of Woodford that seems to have been removed without being replaced by now. I remember asking my parents why there was an Essex sign there when we were already in Essex I don't remember the response I got sadly.

[raz.org.rain]

 Azazel funnily enough I've just been arguing with someone from Greece about climate classification, they just can't seem to get their head around the fact that northwestern Spain is classified as a Mediterranean climate and that our own climate isn't that far removed from it. It's kind of annoying when people insist that we can't get a Mediterranean climate because they assume that means something resembling Andalusia or Crete, rather than northern Spain or southwestern France.