Snow Patches Surviving on Scottish Mountains

[firefly]

A few piccies to keep you all amused. Taken over the course of the last week or so... :lol:

Hoping to get a good survey of the remaining snow this weekend, so will post any updates when I have suitable info to report back with. Brownie points to those who can guess where the pictures are from! Couple of easy ones (for those in the know), and a couple of not-so-easy ones...

Edited August 19, 2008 by firefly

[stewfox]

Nice photos, it must be great flying above such amazing landscapes. I really can't see the snow patch in the third pic, no matter how hard I look.

Looking forward to my holiday up there in October, i'm hoping for an early dusting of snow for the tops

EDIT: I thought the photo further up the page looks upside down, so I thought I'd flip it

Middle of the picture to the left, i can see some white stuff

[Norrance]

Still waiting for the closer up pictures of the Nevis range from my bro's camera. Here is one from mine near Glen Affric which certainly had snow in sight when taken. Not sure if it can be seen through the cloud though.

Re Firefly's pictures. I recognise two, think I know one other and feel I ought to know the remaining one. I will name the obvious one. Ben Macdui.

[Zerouali lives]

The snowfall level must of been pretty close to the summits PM today as the temperature was only 10.5° in Aberdeen at 1700hrs in very heavy rain. I'd be interested to know if there were any fresh deposits? I could even see my own breath outside not long ago.

[kippure]

The snowfall level must of been pretty close to the summits PM today as the temperature was only 10.5° in Aberdeen at 1700hrs in very heavy rain. I'd be interested to know if there were any fresh deposits? I could even see my own breath outside not long ago.

Check the cams early in the morning, there might be a dusting!

http://www.cairngormmountain.co.uk/cams/image2.jpg

[firefly]

Epic day on the hill yesterday! Met up with Dr Blair Fyffe (SAIS) at the North Face car park in the morning and then with coaster (Mark) at the deer fence, intent on getting up to the higher reaches of Observatory Gully to see how much snow was left.

Weather forecast was decent for the morning, but a nasty front was forecast to move across us at some point in the afternoon. Certainly the bike ride up from Glasgow in the morning was pleasant, although foggy in places.

Got the the CIC hut at around 10am, and that's where the slog started! Anyone who's ever been to the upper reaches of Observatory Gully will know how much effort is required to get there. We reached there around 11am and, I'm afraid to say, observed less snow than there was on the 6th September 2007 http://www.flickr.com/photos/28183399@N03/...155704/sizes/l/. Strangely, Point 5 Gully is holding more than last year, and Zero Gully still had a tiny remnant (which will be gone by the weekend), which disappeared on the 18th August 2007. I would have expected uniformity in these three patches, which are all very close together, but it seems that this is simply not the case. I have no reason why this is.

Having said that, the sheer depth of the main Observatory Gully patch is truly awe inspiring. Having Blair with us (a climber when he is not working for the SAIS!) gave us the confidence to go round the back of the patch and descend into the cliff face which the snow sat against. A conservative estimate of the depth of snow was 30-35ft, and probably closer to 50ft in the middle. The attached pictures tell their own story:

1) http://www.flickr.com/photos/28183399@N03/...57606917490804/

2) http://www.flickr.com/photos/28183399@N03/...57606917490804/

The main patch at Observatory Gully was (by consensus) 120 metres long by 40 metres wide, with an estimated depth (as stated) of around 12-15 metres. http://www.flickr.com/photos/28183399@N03/...57606917490804/

Point 5 Gully was 40 metres long by 30 metres wide, with an estimated depth of around 5-6 metres. http://www.flickr.com/photos/28183399@N03/...57606917490804/

Zero Gully patch was very small (we didn't visit it), and was no more than a few metres wide.

From there Mark, who had a come off a 12-hour nightshift(!), had other comittments and had to go home, whereas Blair decided that he'd like to come with me to Aonach Mor/Beag. I was relieved at this, as his knowledge of the area is excellent, as was his ability to pick a path around the base of the North East Buttress and up the Coire Leis headwall onto the Carn Mor Dearg Arete! http://www.flickr.com/photos/28183399@N03/...57606917490804/ He decided that it would be best not to attain the summit of CMD, but instead head "across country" around the mountain and pick up the bealach between CMD and Aonach Mor that way, even though he'd never been there before! Sure enough, his sniffer dog instict lead us neatly to the bealach and, after a quick chocolate bar, we climbed the remaining 1000-odd foot onto the summit of Aonach Mor.

I had arranged to meet up with a chap called David at Aonach Mor, who is making a film about snow patches in Scotland and wanted to film one, complete with interviews with guys (like me!) who go out and study these things. We met at the summit of Aonach Mor (after I had quickly photographed the Aonach Beag patch) and, with Blair's faultless advice, dropped from the summit down a mossy slope and around (from the south) into Coire an Lochain.

Three main patches were there, with the Pro Talus one being the largest (in terms of surface area), and the "main" one against the cliff face being the deepest. Again, the size of the patches is much reduced from last year, and I doubt very much whether any from Aonach Mor will make it past mid-October unless we have good early snowfall. A warm September will destroy these patches I feel, with none of them being especially large:

1) http://www.flickr.com/photos/28183399@N03/...57606917490804/

2) http://www.flickr.com/photos/28183399@N03/...57606917490804/

3) http://www.flickr.com/photos/28183399@N03/...57606917490804/

4) http://www.flickr.com/photos/28183399@N03/...57606917490804/

Pro Talus patch was (by consensus) 40 metres wide by 35 metres long. The main patch was, again, around 40 metres wide but tricky to measure the length due to the erratic nature of it.

Due to time constraints we didn't have the time to go to Aonach Beag, but this looked OK (though doubtlessly smaller than last year). It did look very deep from the ridge, and the photograph really doesn't do it justice. http://www.flickr.com/photos/28183399@N03/...57606917490804/

Dropped back down to the gondola and took the easy option off the hill.

About 5600 ft of ascent and many miles covered, with a huge "thank you" to Blair for acting as unpaid guide!

The full set of photographs can be found here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/28183399@N03/...57606917490804/

[Norrance]

Thanks for the report Firefly. Must have been quite a day out.

To summarise would it appear that the patches in the Nevis range are somewhat smaller than last year and fewer look likely to survive? However those in the Cairngorms are at least as big as last year and it is possible more may make it through as well as the usual Garbh Coire on Braeriach.

Was there any feedback from the weekend of any patches remaining outwith the two main areas? Ben Alder for example?

[J07]

This thread is always a good read. I don't think we ever get snow patches surviving summer around here. B)

[firefly]

To summarise would it appear that the patches in the Nevis range are somewhat smaller than last year and fewer look likely to survive? However those in the Cairngorms are at least as big as last year and it is possible more may make it through as well as the usual Garbh Coire on Braeriach.

Was there any feedback from the weekend of any patches remaining outwith the two main areas? Ben Alder for example?

Norrance, yes - that's about the size of it. Nevis area with fewer patches (and smaller) than last year (with the exception of Point 5 Gully), whilst the Cairngorms have more patches than this time last year, and - naturally - larger.

In terms of snow in other areas, the Ben Alder snow has all gone, but Geal Charn (beside Alder) has a few remaining, with one fairly large one still there. Will probably last 'til mid-September-ish.

Creag Meagaidh's Easy Gully still holding snow, but not a huge amount. Again, early-mid September will be a realistic final melt date for this patch.

I know of no other snow still remaining in Scotland. There may be a little in the Strathfarrar hills, but it's unlikely.

Edited August 27, 2008 by firefly

[Anti-Mild]

Some cracking photos there firefly. Some of the patches look like small glaciers from certain angles!!

[Terminal Moraine]

Excellent report there, Firefly, with some cracking photo's. I've been following Scottish snow survival reports for the past 3 or 4 decades through various publications, and from a variety of observers, and your reports rank among the best of them.

[Cookie]

so regarding snow patches would this be classed as a good year or a bad year?

[firefly]

so regarding snow patches would this be classed as a good year or a bad year?

Still too early to say. Certainly the Cairngorms have more remaining snow on them this year than for a good few years, but the recent warm weather (26 degrees in the north east a couple of days ago) really eats into the smaller patches at this time of the year, given that they're already small.

I wouldn't like to hazard a guess at how many patches will survive at this point. Nine last year, and if we get that then we'll be doing very, very well indeed.

Excellent report there, Firefly, with some cracking photo's. I've been following Scottish snow survival reports for the past 3 or 4 decades through various publications, and from a variety of observers, and your reports rank among the best of them.

Well, thanks very much! Appreciated.

[shuggee]

Nothing left visible from the A9 now on passing Aviemore. A marked contrast to only 5 weeks ago.

[firefly]

Nothing left visible from the A9 now on passing Aviemore. A marked contrast to only 5 weeks ago.

Doesn't surprise me, but thanks. Coire an Lochain probably went at the weekend, which is the most visible patch from that side of the road.

Still lots of snow visible, though, at other sites in the Cairngorms and Nevis. I've attached a couple of photographs from Point 5 Gully and Observatory Gully that were taken a few days ago.

[firefly]

For all those wishing to see where Scotland's (and, by default, Britain's) remaining snow is then they can view them below (PDF format).

The two general areas are the Cairngorms and Ben Nevis ranges. The red arrows point to the approximate area of snow-patch retention, and the box on Macdui is an area where there are still a few small ones remaining.

The Observatory Gully patch (2nd photo in the post previous) is the one directly under the "I" of Nevis on the map. This one and the most southerly one on Aonach Beag are the two most likely to survive in the west of Scotland.

The one that always survives longest in the Cairngorms is the Braeriach (An Garbh Coire) patch. It has disappeared only a handfull of times in the last 100-years. The rest do sometimes make it through the year, too.

Nevis.pdf

Cairngorms1.pdf

Ciste_Mhearad.pdf

Edited September 9, 2008 by firefly

[❄️❄️❄️❄️❄️❄️❄️❄️❄️]

Its amazing how much snow is still left. When do the Cairngorms/ Nevis usually get their first snowfall?

[firefly]

Its amazing how much snow is still left. When do the Cairngorms/ Nevis usually get their first snowfall?

It depends.

The first snows (as opposed to lasting snows) generally come in October, though September can (and often does) give surprises.

The first snow to come last year was on the 17th September (http://www.winterhighland.info/forum/file.php?2,file=2522), but the first lasting snows didn't come 'til much later (November). We're certainly due some good October snowfall, so fingers crossed for this year!

[Zerouali lives]

Thanks for the updates Firefly. What direction are all these snow patches facing? I'd imagine all would be between east and north facing slopes although the patches on Bevin Nevis, judging by your attachments in the previous post looked to be on southern facing slopes??!! Or did i not look close enough? Surely not?

PS It snowed in Aberdeen on 2nd October 1994 at sea level so snow even in August is possible in the Cairngorms.

[firefly]

Or did i not look close enough? Surely not?

PS It snowed in Aberdeen on 2nd October 1994 at sea level so snow even in August is possible in the Cairngorms.

I don't think you looked closely enough! The Nevis patches are in the north-east gullies. I don't know when the last southern facing patch melted, but I can look into it.

Snow in August is almost unheard of. However, I have it on very good authority that the A939 (here) was blocked at times during the first couple of days of August 1928! An air forst was apparently recorded in Speyside and Inverness on the night of the 3rd.

Such stories are very, very unusual, needless to say.

[Zerouali lives]

Thanks again Firefly. I think the story about the A939 (a road I know very well) being blocked is untrue, not only because at 637m it is nearly half the altitude of of the peaks of the Cairngorms, but because the chart archive of this date does not indicate any real cold

[damianslaw]

It depends.

The first snows (as opposed to lasting snows) generally come in October, though September can (and often does) give surprises.

The first snow to come last year was on the 17th September (http://www.winterhighland.info/forum/file.php?2,file=2522), but the first lasting snows didn't come 'til much later (November). We're certainly due some good October snowfall, so fingers crossed for this year!

Quite poor statistic for last year considering that October was a very average month temp wise, would have expected a couple of lasting snowfalls to have occurred. I vividly remember the Octobers of 1992 and 1993 delivering lasting snow on the lake district fells, i bet the scottish highlands would have seen a pasting in these years during October, examples of heavy coverings in more recent Octobers likewise being 2003 and possibly 2004 I imagine... Its one of the great waiting games of the year in my book that first patch of snow cover on our hills (for me though it is the northern oennines/cheviots or lake district fells, in recent years we have had to wait until November).

[firefly]

Garbh Choire Mhor on Braeriach still in very good nick (over 100m long). Picture taken on the 8th September 2008.

[Ice Blast]

Its Amazing how such a tiny amount of snow left on a mountain can attract so much attention :lol: guys stop bugging firefly over a few patches and wait for the real snow in a few months time :lol: but it is cool how these patches can survive the whole summer and yeah cheers for the updates.

[Zerouali lives]

Garbh Choire Mhor on Braeriach still in very good nick (over 100m long). Picture taken on the 8th September 2008.

Interesting that this, the daddy of all snow patches, appears to be in sunlight in that photo which brings into question whether this is really a north-east facing coire???