Global Cooling

[Gray-Wolf]

Two lamps with energy saving bulbs, a telly, digi box, DVD player and an hi-fi. Used for a few hours in the evening, combination of either TV & digi box or TV & DVD or just hi-fi. Not exactly energy guzzling and I'm pretty sure that's fairly representative of most folks homes.

When I woz a lad.......way back when........we had a telly and a lamp.

Now the telly seems to need sky box's (set top box's) DVD,Video,Play station (or similar) and surround sound speakers and the lamp has become a fleet of 'mood lighting' uplighters/lamps/spots.

Am I peering through the wrong windows???

[jethro]

When I woz a lad.......way back when........we had a telly and a lamp.

Now the telly seems to need sky box's (set top box's) DVD,Video,Play station (or similar) and surround sound speakers and the lamp has become a fleet of 'mood lighting' uplighters/lamps/spots.

Am I peering through the wrong windows???

Well you're not looking through mine, but then I guess all any of us have to go on is personal perspective and experiences. Agreed it's annoying you have to have digi box/sky, our signal is so dodgy we often struggle to get anything at all, even with a box and amplifier in the attic - more to do with a giant Oak tree a few feet away which veto's Sky altogether, just can't get it.

No Play station or similar; hubby and I have no interest in them, kids found them too boring so they sold them shortly after getting them.

Surround sound - yes but it's all plugged into the DVD so no separate power source.

Mood lighting - lots of. Fire light and candles, far superior to uplighters/downlighters/lamps/spots IMO.

When I woz a young lass, we weren't allowed to sit for hours in front of the telly; the box in the corner was turned on for specific programmes then turned off again. Moaned like mad at being endlessly told "it rots your brain" but I can't say it did me any harm and I'm a mean scrabble and poker player as a result

[Gray-Wolf]

When I woz a young lass, we weren't allowed to sit for hours in front of the telly; the box in the corner was turned on for specific programmes then turned off again. Moaned like mad at being endlessly told "it rots your brain" but I can't say it did me any harm and I'm a mean scrabble and poker player as a result

Rotted my brain......all that Jaques Cousteau/Horizon/'end of the world' nature progs from Anglia T.V........and folk wonder why I am where I am today

****Sadly the warnings given back in the early 70's seem not only to have arrived but in spades!!!****

[noggin]

Am I peering through the wrong windows???

Yep! We must try to restore your faith in human nature, G-W!

[jethro]

Rotted my brain......all that Jaques Cousteau/Horizon/'end of the world' nature progs from Anglia T.V........and folk wonder why I am where I am today

Hey, no offence meant you know, wasn't insinuating that it did rot brains, just that's what I was told as a nipper. End of the world nature programmes......explains a lot Agree with Noggin, it's time to restore a little faith in human nature.

[Mondy]

Out of interest, how long before Global Cooling hits the mainstream media? Surely BBC/ITV/Sky et al will soon stop reporting on polar melting, displaced polar bears etc before long?

Hmm, the more I think about it, probably never

[SP1986]

And lets hope not, otherwise that will just serve to worry people, bring pointless stirring, and generally suggest something that if it actually happened, would be very problematic to the current world. Not something to wish on anyone... I would hope people weren't wishing an ice age on us.

[Mondy]

Stop Anthropogenic Solar Cooling.

Count me a believer!! I’d finish this comment, but I’m shutting off my wireless writer as I ty…

[Gray-Wolf]

:lol:

You do know how to start things

[stewfox]

Out of interest, how long before Global Cooling hits the mainstream media? Surely BBC/ITV/Sky et al will soon stop reporting on polar melting, displaced polar bears etc before long?

Hmm, the more I think about it, probably never

The media are there to sell papers etc and I dont think it would take much for alarmest headlines

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/04/u...ent_id=16500262

The BBC etc would take longer for reasons already given

I hope one day we would have a 3 part un bias programme around the whole debate

[BLAST FROM THE PAST]

Interesting study and findings? What's really going on?

http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/story/555283.html

BFTP

[Devonian]

Interesting study and findings? What's really going on?

http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/story/555283.html

BFTP

It's worth reading and it confirms that a cool summer means less snow melts. The opposite has been happening in recent warm summers and glaciers there have melted a lot. Not rocket science really.

As ever the things that matters is the trend. Some of us are convinced in ten years something like the LIA will be upon us, others of us that we'll see further warming. We will see.

[stewfox]

Interesting study and findings? What's really going on?

http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/story/555283.html

BFTP

Was at Juneau last April (only realised a few weeks before I went you cant drive there !)

Had a look and fly over Mendenhall Glacier (amazing). There is a 'Tourist shop, quite large about 800 metres from the base of the glacier . It says this is where the glacier was in 1948 , guess they may have to move it

Lots of snow there (Im told) in 2006/7 winter

Interesting report

[Gray-Wolf]

Interesting study and findings? What's really going on?

http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/story/555283.html

BFTP

I'd say global warming is what is happening!

Larger areas of open water and warmer ocean surfaces will surely lead to more evaporation will it not?

That there 'extra' moisture, lofted into the skies ,will lead to some areas being cloudier than normal (more chilly grey days) and some places will have to cop for the resultant precipitation when it finally falls.....as either a solid or liquid.

Haven't we seen enough from the changing weather patterns of the Antarctic peninsula to hazard a guess guys?

[BLAST FROM THE PAST]

I'd say global warming is what is happening!

Larger areas of open water and warmer ocean surfaces will surely lead to more evaporation will it not?

That there 'extra' moisture, lofted into the skies ,will lead to some areas being cloudier than normal (more chilly grey days) and some places will have to cop for the resultant precipitation when it finally falls.....as either a solid or liquid.

Precisely, and that is exactly how ice ages/glaciation starts. B)

BFTP

[Gray-Wolf]

Precisely, and that is exactly how ice ages/glaciation starts. :o

BFTP

People seem ever eager to overlook the obvious.......in the past nature alone was driving the system and did not face the insidious year on year global increase in greenhouse gasses so ,yes, in the past increased snowfall/cover has led the albedo effect to start to tip the world towards cool down, sadly we live in extremely different circumstances. Eventually our influence will lead to such strong 'feedback loops' that no matter what 'phase' climate is in it will be over-ridden by our output.

That which drives the adherents of our current scientific acceptance of our part in climate change is to avoid such an outcome,both for ourselves and the rest of the planets critters. This is why the contrarians are found to be so irksome (to some) as their inability to act will cost us the planet......and all because " in the past" this and that.

The point is that this is not the past, this is now and there is a new 'driver' in town that was never before let loose on our ecosystem.

Edited October 19, 2008 by Gray-Wolf

[Snowyowl9]

There were programns of gulf stream shutdown a few years back when if so much arctic ice melts bringing fresh water into the atlantic and slowing the gulf stream down that has happened before in the little ice age as the current diverts and goes towards africa instead and leaving us like "The day after tomorrow".

Then the supervolcanoes with all the lava building up within time at yellowstone park.

Anyway why I`ve come on here is that someone told me the other day he saw this on TV about the tilting of the earth over 1000 years and it tilts further away from the sun making it cooler but I missed it and found nothing about it.

And now sunspots at there minimum for a few years now.

[Optimus Prime]

No human has been alive to witness this and has never been written down in human history. All these documenteries are out there for is to practicaly scare everyone because it's human nature to be interested in something that might cause devestation.

End of the day, the worlds warming up and in general, the current ecosystems dieying off irrespective of what the weathers doing.

Might all be true, but it won't be as easy or as fast as what they may try and put across. Subtle signs would be seen I suspect before this.

[Snowyowl9]

You`ve just proved my point there no human has been alive to see all these events we`ve seen nothing to the bigger picture.

We`re just a tiny speck in an breathtaking universe of moving 10`s of thousands galaxies and huge black holes at the centre and zillions of stars and supernova which we are made of stardust makes you think.

[BLAST FROM THE PAST]

The point is that this is not the past, this is now and there is a new 'driver' in town that was never before let loose on our ecosystem.

And that's what such irksome folk as me are saying, there is no new driver that's poppycock. Round one of cooling now underway...with more to come. My opinion with mounting evidence to support

BFTP

Anyway why I`ve come on here is that someone told me the other day he saw this on TV about the tilting of the earth over 1000 years and it tilts further away from the sun making it cooler but I missed it and found nothing about it.

And now sunspots at there minimum for a few years now.

Snowy

Axial tilt. We are currently 23.5 deg angle. It ranges from 21.5 to 24.5. All part of the Milankovitch cycles. Read

here

BFTP

[Gray-Wolf]

We cannot deny our impact on the planet Blast. Be it deforrestation,desertification or atmospheric pollution. These are all quantifieable things and each one must bring it's effects. You cannot live in a closed system, mess about with it and then sit back thinking it will have no response.

Look at how we impacted Australia by releasing rabbits (and now the impacts of the cane toad). We cannot deny our ability to ruin (intentionally or otherwise) ecosystems that have existed within their own 'balence' for millenia and not think we can do this with our fragile,sensitive atmosphere.

We all, I'm sure, grimace when faced with images of the Chinese coal fired power stations (look at the smog at the F1 yesterday!), just imagine if all the worlds historic pollution came from one source (say a mile by a mile), would we not be up in arms about the problems it was causing 'locally'? (be it poor air quality,high surface ozone, acid rain etc,etc) if we can sence the damage 'locally' then how can we fail to recognise it globally?

[BLAST FROM THE PAST]

We cannot deny our impact on the planet Blast. Be it deforrestation,desertification or atmospheric pollution. These are all quantifieable things and each one must bring it's effects. You cannot live in a closed system, mess about with it and then sit back thinking it will have no response.

Look at how we impacted Australia by releasing rabbits (and now the impacts of the cane toad). We cannot deny our ability to ruin (intentionally or otherwise) ecosystems that have existed within their own 'balence' for millenia and not think we can do this with our fragile,sensitive atmosphere.

We all, I'm sure, grimace when faced with images of the Chinese coal fired power stations (look at the smog at the F1 yesterday!), just imagine if all the worlds historic pollution came from one source (say a mile by a mile), would we not be up in arms about the problems it was causing 'locally'? (be it poor air quality,high surface ozone, acid rain etc,etc) if we can sence the damage 'locally' then how can we fail to recognise it globally?

CO2 isn't driving the climate. It never has and never will, its not a driver IMO and whether its feedback or response what we are seeing is that CO2 is being overridden because we should not be in a stable even slightly declining global temp if CO2 was THE driver.

Deforestation? yes seeing some tropical jungles being demolished does make me grimace.

BFTP

[Gray-Wolf]

I'm sure we are all well aware of the 'role' CO2 has played in our past global climates. Surely this is not the issue alone though? If we take the 'local impact' of loosing a rainforrest then surely the impact of those local changes leach out into the surrounding areas (telconnections?). If we look at the wider picture (global?) then would we not expect to see a patchwork of 'local' impacts across the whole globe and that these 'local impacts' are moveing to a point where both their 'local impacts' ,and each ones wider teleconnections, then encompass the whole globe?

Sure, the school of thought I adhere to has CO2 as another major impact upon the planet but it is the global writhings, as the planet tries to rapidly adjust to our impacts, that must remain the 'biggest' concern for us all.

Be it warming or cooling the ramifications on both humanity and the global ecosystem as a whole are immense and we must surely not be disuaded from action (in whatever small way....think global ,act local?) by bickerings over the finer points of the changes we have helped to set in motion?

[laserguy]

CO2 isn't driving the climate. It never has and never will, its not a driver IMO

BFTP

It's not just your opinion,Blast. It's a fact,and a fact that's as true now as it has always been.

http://icecap.us/images/uploads/SmoothedMo...yCO2vsTemps.jpg

GW,I understand and agree (yes,agree!) with your last coupla posts,but certainly not where CO2 specifically is concerned. Why fudge the issue,since as far as joe sixpack is concerned, CO2 he is constantly told is the be all and end all of all the world's problems? One of them being the invented phenomenon of climate acting out of the ordinary(by our definition - which counts for naught). Human emissions of CO2 amount to a minute fraction of the total atmospheric content which in itself amounts to nothing more than a trace gas. Stop all CO2 emissions globally right now and what would happen? Nothing,apart from localities getting cleaner as the accompanying pollution disappears. I wish someone would bulldoze that damn foundry which I can see from my upstairs window - it's uncomfortably close to my backyard.

[Snowyowl9]

Snowy

Axial tilt. We are currently 23.5 deg angle. It ranges from 21.5 to 24.5. All part of the Milankovitch cycles. Read

here

BFTP

Cheers Blast for that link. B)