The Uk's Coldest City

[Terminal Moraine]

Thanks TM, Durham would still be coldest city in England then due its lower min and similar max to Bradford then? Hope your post will lay things to rest. Until the next thread of snowiest town,village school, post office remerges again.

Mark

Teesdale,Co Durham

I've dug out data for 3 stations listed as Durham, those of you more familiar with the place than I am will know how representative of the city any one of them is.

STATION..... Mts a.s.l.... Mean Annual Temp'... Mean Annual Max'/Min'

Durham (Houghall )...37.......8.5c.......12.7/4.2

Durham....................102.....8.5c.......12.3/4.8

Durham ( Ushaw ).....181......8.2c.......11.6/4.8

All data relates to the 1941-70 period.

Edited December 29, 2008 by Terminal Moraine

[Tucco]

I've dug out data for 3 stations listed as Durham, those of you more familiar with the place than I am will know how representative of the city any one of them is.

STATION..... Mts a.s.l.... Mean Annual Temp'... Mean Annual Max'/Min'

Durham (Houghall )...37.......8.5c.......12.7/4.2

Durham....................102.....8.5c.......12.3/4.8

Durham ( Ushaw ).....181......8.2c.......11.6/4.8

All data relates to the 1941-70 period.

Thanks TM for that. So Durham is the coldest city in England. The End. Thank god for that. Cue snowiest town/village again.

Mark

Teesdale,Co Durham

[Osbourne One-Nil]

Great Asby and Alston.

There, that's done too.

[JRMcLeod]

How can a topic on "UK's Coldest City" turn into "What consititutes a UK City"? Its all completely irrelevent though because Aberdeen IS the coldest city and Inverness IS a city...end of topic!!! :lol:

[Mondy]

Strewth, not yet another claim on Knaresborogateon...

Not sure Inveness can claim to be a transport hub. Surely there's only about half a dozen 4x4s, a few tractors, and a load of donkeys up there?

I think you might also be understating the reach of Radio Nobody's Listening: surely it stretches right across the water to Norway?

Tsk. I doubt very much Norwegian listeners would be able to listen to Moray Firth Radio considering they transmit on FM. You did realise VHF radio waves don't travel that far unless of course under perfect radio propagation conditions, mainly in late Spring or when Sporadic E is at it's strongest.

However, they could easily tune in via the 'net :-)

*tongue in cheek post, like yours I assume?!

[Storm Animal]

Hmmmmm, I don't know, but to me Manchester seems to be consistently cold throughout the year. I don't mean that Manchester experiences extreme low temperatures, but its usually cold damp and wet, even in the height of summer, so I think it depends what you are envisaging as the "coldest city"......one which experiences the lowest temperature for say a few days per year, or look at the annual average. I would like to add that many places in North East Scotland, such as Aberdeen & Inverness record some of the highest summer temperatures in the UK on occaisions & have relatively low rainfall

[Richard Taylor]

Storm Animal, thank you kind Sir!

The Fohn effect often sees winds warm up as they tumble off the mountains & it leaves NE Scotland often as the warmest area in the UK, sometimes even Europe, winter or summer.

Have seen Aberdeen (Dyce) almost touch +30 in summertime, most recently Jul 2006 if I recall.

[Stratos Ferric]

Hmmmmm, I don't know, but to me Manchester seems to be consistently cold throughout the year. I don't mean that Manchester experiences extreme low temperatures, but its usually cold damp and wet, even in the height of summer, so I think it depends what you are envisaging as the "coldest city"......one which experiences the lowest temperature for say a few days per year, or look at the annual average. I would like to add that many places in North East Scotland, such as Aberdeen & Inverness record some of the highest summer temperatures in the UK on occaisions & have relatively low rainfall

The NE of Scotland seldom as never records excessively high maxima, though they can return unusually high temps particularly in winter when and if a foehn develops. If you go check the link I posted yesterday (UK MO mapped averages) you will see that Manchester is markedly warmer for latitude than anywhere E of the Pennines.

Tsk. I doubt very much Norwegian listeners would be able to listen to Moray Firth Radio considering they transmit on FM. You did realise VHF radio waves don't travel that far unless of course under perfect radio propagation conditions, mainly in late Spring or when Sporadic E is at it's strongest.

However, they could easily tune in via the 'net :-)

*tongue in cheek post, like yours I assume?!

Surely they have "nobody's out there gold" on the AM band as well though?

I've dug out data for 3 stations listed as Durham ...

All data relates to the 1941-70 period.

Top marks for all the homework TM. Durham appears to have it for the UK then, though if Bradford ever decide to put a station out at Queensbury (about 400m up but within the city boundary) that will soon shift. Not only the snowiest urban location in England (and possibly the UK) - or it was when it used to snow, but perhaps the coldest too.

[NorthernRab]

Strewth, not yet another claim on Knaresborogateon...

Not sure Inveness can claim to be a transport hub. Surely there's only about half a dozen 4x4s, a few tractors, and a load of donkeys up there?

I think you might also be understating the reach of Radio Nobody's Listening: surely it stretches right across the water to Norway?

Inverness is the main transport hub for 400,000 people. So yes, it can.

Exactly, that's what I'm saying! It doesn't "feel" like the world is a cube to me - so for me it isn't. Surely our experiences are what makes truth for an individual? If Inverness feels like a city to you then it can be a city. For me it's a town. Some facts would be stupid to dispute, because after all reason plays a part in interpreting our experiences and the evidence showing that the world is a cube is inherent, within the Earth's structure - but whether a place is a city or not is not inherent to the nature of the place and instead is a human construct that we have placed, based on the "feelings" of a few people that actually made the definition. Big difference then.

You can talk a whole lot of rubbish sometimes Yeti. There's perception and then there's denying everyday fact, seems very pig-headed to me - and I still think it's plausable that Inverness could be the coldest city, but for lack of data for the city itself.

Edited December 29, 2008 by NorthernRab

[The Enforcer]

Has anyone mentioned Norwich sounds unlikely, but get an Easterly blowing a hooly in mid winter and I doubt you will find many places that feel colder

So which city feels coldest?

[NorthernRab]

^ Aberdeen or Inverness for windchill probably. I guess which 'feels the coldest' is actually the most relevant.

To illustrate my cold pooling point I've uploaded an image. In these sort of set-ups, temperatures around Moray Firth dip very low. 7:30 and already -8.5'C here. Lossiemouth, Kinloss, Inverness, Aviemore and Loch Glascarnoch have been the coldest locations in the UK recently.

[Yeti]

Inverness is the main transport hub for 400,000 people. So yes, it can.

You can talk a whole lot of rubbish sometimes Yeti. There's perception and then there's denying everyday fact, seems very pig-headed to me - and I still think it's plausable that Inverness could be the coldest city, but for lack of data for the city itself.

Nope, if you read my post properly I didn't say that

Hence why it would be stupid to deny the Earth is round but not stupid to deny somewhere is a city; as I said, one place is a loose human concept and the other is inherent.

Anyway, I think we have established that Durham has it.

[Terminal Moraine]

Hmmmmm, I don't know, but to me Manchester seems to be consistently cold throughout the year. I don't mean that Manchester experiences extreme low temperatures, but its usually cold damp and wet, even in the height of summer, so I think it depends what you are envisaging as the "coldest city"......one which experiences the lowest temperature for say a few days per year, or look at the annual average. I would like to add that many places in North East Scotland, such as Aberdeen & Inverness record some of the highest summer temperatures in the UK on occaisions & have relatively low rainfall

Working purely on annual averages here, SA.

The mean annual average for Ringway airport, which is undoubtedly cooler than Manchester city centre, is 9.4c for the 1941-70 period so I'm afraid Manchester isn't even in the running, despite the perception of persistent cool and damp weather.

Even in summer, Manchester, with a mean July max' and min' of 19.6c and 11.7c respectively, is considerably warmer than say Edinburgh at 18.6c and 10.8c or even Glasgow at 18.6c and 10.8c; Aberdeen comes in at 17.5 and 9.6c in July.

As for Norwich, which someone else mentioned, the summer temperatures are far too high to put it in contention, despite what it may feel like on a cold easterly day in winter.

[Nick H]

Nope, if you read my post properly I didn't say that

Hence why it would be stupid to deny the Earth is round but not stupid to deny somewhere is a city; as I said, one place is a loose human concept and the other is inherent.

Anyway, I think we have established that Durham has it.

Of course it is stupid to deny somewhere is a city if it has official City status. You may not agree with the decision to confer City status on somewhere, but it's still a City.

Your logic is absurd. You say it is legitimate to deny that a City is a City because it doesn't "feel" like a City. But it's not OK to deny the Earth is round. Well, actually, to me, the Earth "feels" pretty flat. I walk the length of my garden and I don't fall off the surface of a sphere, do I? I keep walking, my garden "feels" pretty flat, therefore the Earth must be flat and it is perfectly acceptable to deny it.

Anyway, I thought you were banging the gong for Leeds being the coldest?

Edited December 29, 2008 by Nick H

[NorthernRab]

Nope, if you read my post properly I didn't say that

Hence why it would be stupid to deny the Earth is round but not stupid to deny somewhere is a city; as I said, one place is a loose human concept and the other is inherent.

Anyway, I think we have established that Durham has it.

I'm not sure we have Yeti.

Anyway, this is pointless discussion. Inverness is a city, and no matter how many times you attempt to come out with some form of profound concept, it will still be a city. Incidentally, when was the last time you were in Inverness? It's probably a bit different now as it's the fastest growing city in Europe and one of the very few in the UK that has resisted the credit crunch, hence the continued boom in construction.

I'm sorry but I was no clear enough when creating this topic:

Which British city feels the coldest during the winter months of December, January and February?

[PersianPaladin]

I've dug out data for 3 stations listed as Durham, those of you more familiar with the place than I am will know how representative of the city any one of them is.

STATION..... Mts a.s.l.... Mean Annual Temp'... Mean Annual Max'/Min'

Durham (Houghall )...37.......8.5c.......12.7/4.2

Durham....................102.....8.5c.......12.3/4.8

Durham ( Ushaw ).....181......8.2c.......11.6/4.8

All data relates to the 1941-70 period.

I think the 8.5C is more representative of Durham City; as Houghall can be regarded as within the city boundary; however I classify Ushaw Moor as a satellite village and not part of the city: -

Admittedly though; the boundaries may have changed since the seventies - for example some people feel that Carrville and Brasside are the city suburbs - but Brandon and Shincliffe are outside of Durham City. So to be honest; its just personal opinion - and I feel the temperatures will be a tad lower in these satellite settlements given their higher altitude and the general bowl-shape of the morphology.

Edited December 29, 2008 by PersianPaladin

[NorthernRab]

Of course it is stupid to deny somewhere is a city if it has official City status. You may not agree with the decision to confer City status on somewhere, but it's still a City.

Anyway, I thought you were banging the gong for Leeds being the coldest?

Thank you, a word of reason.

A city, is a city. I don't see why Yeti finds it so difficult to accept that his opinion in such a matter is pointless. Indeed, city status in the UK transcends what would be the normal approach - centuries of Cathedrals have created some small cities.

Yeti, I'll say this one last time, whether or not you believe Inverness to be a city is of no use. In fact, it's quite inconsiderate to disregard it as a city, like I've said before, someone in China would perhaps disregard Leeds as a city (which is completely worthless as well). To be from England and to claim that one of the most important historical sites in Scotland (and indeed the UK), with a large hinterland and important political centre is not a city is completely false.

Either way, we've EXHAUSTED this point, Inverness is a city. Congratulations for you thinking otherwise, fortunately, as you are from a completely different area of the UK, no one is likely to want to listen, including me.

[Mondy]

Incidentally, when was the last time you were in Inverness? It's probably a bit different now as it's the fastest growing city in Europe and one of the very few in the UK that has resisted the credit crunch, hence the continued boom in construction.

I, too, unlike the majority on here, have stayed in Inverness for a spell and can confirm Inverness is a city. Moreso than Stirling and Dunfermline.

Because it's so far north and lacking data (perhaps due to the fact it isn't south of the border??) then unofficial (and not airport) readings will need to be taken [as gospel] to justify it's "coldest city status". Perhaps our SNP lead government would like to install some proper calibrated temperature reading equipment in and around said city?

[NorthernRab]

I, too, unlike the majority on here, have stayed in Inverness for a spell and can confirm Inverness is a city. Moreso than Stirling and Dunfermline.

Because it's so far north and lacking data (perhaps due to the fact it isn't south of the border??) then unofficial (and not airport) readings will need to be taken [as gospel] to justify it's "coldest city status". Perhaps our SNP lead government would like to install some proper calibrated temperature reading equipment in and around said city?

Here here , the Cairngorms also has a sheer lack of weather stations. Bizarre considering that the Highlands can probably return some very interesting data for everyone to appreciate.

Perhaps we can all have this discussion in 10 years, who knows, Inverness might have a weather station? Until then, I think Invernesians have to assume or eastern neighbours Aberdeen is the coldest.

[Yeti]

Of course it is stupid to deny somewhere is a city if it has official City status. You may not agree with the decision to confer City status on somewhere, but it's still a City.

Your logic is absurd. You say it is legitimate to deny that a City is a City because it doesn't "feel" like a City. But it's not OK to deny the Earth is round. Well, actually, to me, the Earth "feels" pretty flat. I walk the length of my garden and I don't fall off the surface of a sphere, do I? I keep walking, my garden "feels" pretty flat, therefore the Earth must be flat and it is perfectly acceptable to deny it.

Anyway, I thought you were banging the gong for Leeds being the coldest?

Nope, I don't think Leeds is the coldest, I'm not going to deny figures. It's a close call between Aberdeen and Durham.

My point is (and this is where further reading is needed) that the Earth really is round and this can be proven mathematically. It doesn't matter if it feels flat, because there is overwhelming evidence that the Earth is round and it would go against all rationality, regardless of perception, to say that the Earth is flat.

However, "city status" is different. A city isn't inherently a "city". It's just a word that describes something; there is no mathematical way of proving whether or not somewhere is a city and there is no a priori evidence, and little else, that suggests whether or not this is the case. Our perception of the Earth being round is incorrect and we can override this by using our reason. However, our perception of whether somewhere is a town or a city does not necessarily conflict with our reason, because the definition of a city is loose (it varies from country to country). There is certainly no city that is innately a city; in effect, other people have decided for us whether a place is a city or not - and they have based this decision fundamentally upon their perception - how big is the place, how big is its influence? Perceptions differ, and so, therefore, do the opinions in this argument.

[NorthernRab]

Nope, I don't think Leeds is the coldest, I'm not going to deny figures. It's a close call between Aberdeen and Durham.

My point is (and this is where further reading is needed) that the Earth really is round and this can be proven mathematically. It doesn't matter if it feels flat, because there is overwhelming evidence that the Earth is round and it would go against all rationality, regardless of perception, to say that the Earth is flat.

However, "city status" is different. A city isn't inherently a "city". It's just a word that describes something; there is no mathematical way of proving whether or not somewhere is a city and there is no a priori evidence, and little else, that suggests whether or not this is the case. Our perception of the Earth being round is incorrect and we can override this by using our reason. However, our perception of whether somewhere is a town or a city does not necessarily conflict with our reason, because the definition of a city is loose (it varies from country to country). There is certainly no city that is innately a city; in effect, other people have decided for us whether a place is a city or not - and they have based this decision fundamentally upon their perception - how big is the place, how big is its influence? Perceptions differ, and so, therefore, do the opinions in this argument.

Congratulations for one of the most stubborn views I've ever heard. Inverness is factually a city Yeti, and no one is particularly bothered that you think otherwise. It is completely valid in this discussion. Congratulations for having a good think on the subject. End of.

[PersianPaladin]

Yeti....do you think Durham City should be called such?

[Yeti]

I'm not sure we have Yeti.

Anyway, this is pointless discussion. Inverness is a city, and no matter how many times you attempt to come out with some form of profound concept, it will still be a city. Incidentally, when was the last time you were in Inverness? It's probably a bit different now as it's the fastest growing city in Europe and one of the very few in the UK that has resisted the credit crunch, hence the continued boom in construction.

I'm sorry but I was no clear enough when creating this topic:

Which British city feels the coldest during the winter months of December, January and February?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I was there last year. It really did seem like the up-and-coming hotshot city in Europe though, I can't think of anywhere else so progressive and fast growing. Heaven only knows, soon it will be the most important place in the EU!

Yeti....do you think Durham City should be called such?

Hmmmm let's not go there! :lol:

[Osbourne One-Nil]

Are you open to suggestions as to where you should go?

[Yeti]

Congratulations for one of the most stubborn views I've ever heard. Inverness is factually a city Yeti, and no one is particularly bothered that you think otherwise. It is completely valid in this discussion. Congratulations for having a good think on the subject. End of.

How you can think that a "fact is a fact" and that nothing simply made by other people can be challenged is beyond me - so what if somebody else has decided that Inverness is a city?

Interesting the number of people from Inverness in this thread :lol:

Clearly city status is very important to a lot of people.