Scottish Cold Spell Discussion

[Thundery wintry showers]

Re. humidity, low humidity suggests low dewpoints (the lower the humidity, the larger the difference between the air temperature and the dewpoint) and dewpoints are often a bigger determining factor in the persistence of snow cover than air temperature. (It's the same for falling snow as well- the lower the humidity, the more likely it is that snow won't melt on its way to the ground despite an air temperature well above freezing). The depth of the snow cover and the "consolidation" via overnight frosts will also be helping to maintain the snow cover.

I must say, though, that I'd probably find the kind of rock-solid ice snow you have something of a nuisance by now. I remember in Cleadon, during the December spell we had significant rainfall on top of the snow cover a couple of times, and so from 23-27 December there was essentially a layer of ice on the ground and I felt no disappointment at all when it largely thawed away on the 27th. Ice is more dangerous than a soft snow cover and not as much use for pleasurable activities- as far as I'm aware its only major advantage is that ice-covered scenery can be nice to look at.

That's why I was far more enthusiastic about the spell in the first nine days of January (as it had soft fluffy snow on the ground) and why the media reports of "thankfully a welcome respite" around 10-16 January really got up my backside- this "welcome respite" in Norwich consisted of a combination of raw overcast weather and a lethal, slowly-reducing layer of partially thawed/refrozen ice. Your snow in Scotland will probably be more of a positive thing wherever it didn't rain on top of it back in late Feb, because rain is far more effective at turning snow into ice than sunshine.

[Cheggers]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8551416.stm

Not really a surprise.

[Guest]

Re. humidity, low humidity suggests low dewpoints (the lower the humidity, the larger the difference between the air temperature and the dewpoint) and dewpoints are often a bigger determining factor in the persistence of snow cover than air temperature. (It's the same for falling snow as well- the lower the humidity, the more likely it is that snow won't melt on its way to the ground despite an air temperature well above freezing). The depth of the snow cover and the "consolidation" via overnight frosts will also be helping to maintain the snow cover.

I must say, though, that I'd probably find the kind of rock-solid ice snow you have something of a nuisance by now. I remember in Cleadon, during the December spell we had significant rainfall on top of the snow cover a couple of times, and so from 23-27 December there was essentially a layer of ice on the ground and I felt no disappointment at all when it largely thawed away on the 27th. Ice is more dangerous than a soft snow cover and not as much use for pleasurable activities- as far as I'm aware its only major advantage is that ice-covered scenery can be nice to look at.

That's why I was far more enthusiastic about the spell in the first nine days of January (as it had soft fluffy snow on the ground) and why the media reports of "thankfully a welcome respite" around 10-16 January really got up my backside- this "welcome respite" in Norwich consisted of a combination of raw overcast weather and a lethal, slowly-reducing layer of partially thawed/refrozen ice. Your snow in Scotland will probably be more of a positive thing wherever it didn't rain on top of it back in late Feb, because rain is far more effective at turning snow into ice than sunshine.

Thanks for the input TWS

The snow does finally seem to be melting a bit more rapidly today as there is a breeze, a little drizzle and dew points seem to be around 4C. Everything is relative so a bit more quickly just means it might take a week to melt instead of three.

I am getting to the point that I want the snow to melt, it is useless now and where disturbed it is black/brown/yellow (think about it.... :lol:)

We could do with a couple of weeks of very mild, very wet weather just to get rid of all the ice and give everything a wash. The streets are filthy with grit and grime as it hasn't rained properly since November.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8551416.stm

Not really a surprise.

They were never going to win with the seasonal forecasts. If they had got them right no-one would have noticed and when they got them partly wrong then they got a powering for it. I think Blitzen has something in her sig similar to that one

[Gilly]

Nice steady melt.

Up to 7C today now dropped back to 5C. How long with this last? I am convinced we will get another cold spell yet!

[Cheggers]

4C here and very overcast, looks like our first above zero night for a long time. At least it's not raining.

[Mondy]

They were never going to win with the seasonal forecasts. If they had got them right no-one would have noticed and when they got them partly wrong then they got a powering for it.

Nobody, not even a multi-million pound super-computer can predict a long range forecast. Nobody predicted what we have just had the past three months.

They didn't get it "partly" wrong, they got it very wrong. And they know they got it wrong. I'm glad they have scrapped them.

Perhaps others [even on here] will follow suit and stop lulling the more gullible into a fall sense of believing.

It said the UK is one of the hardest places to provide forecasts for due to its "size and location", making it "very hard to forecast much beyond a week".

I agree with that ^^ - pity they didn't realise that before making an ass of themselves with their long-term nonsense.

Edited March 5, 2010 by Mondy

[LomondSnowstorm]

Nobody, not even a multi-million pound super-computer can predict a long range forecast. Nobody predicted what we have just had the past three months.

They didn't get it "partly" wrong, they go it very wrong. And they know they got it wrong. I'm glad they have scrapped them.

Perhaps others [even on here] will follow suit and stop lulling the more gullible into a fall sense of believing.

I agree with that ^^ - pity they didn't realise that before making an ass of themselves with their long-term nonsense.

True. LRFs are always a bit of a guess/hopecast based loosely on the background signals and analoguous months/seasons, though as I've said before when have you ever heard one previous winter being compared to another previous winter in any detail? The el nino turned out to be a total red herring this year which caught pretty much everyone out, even GP to an extent (though he was not all that far from spot on to be fair). BFTP and RJS were reasonably close to the mark I felt but because they mentioned a lot of storms and a strong jet I can't really say they got it too close either!

For next year - will the jet continue to track south? I think a major issue with this winter and the reason we failed to really get things to fall into place for an easterly in the second half of winter was the jet being, ironically, too far south. I think we needed more channel lows to prop up the high pressure systems, but instead they tended to drift too far south. e.g. http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/archive/ra/1979/Rrea00119790212.gif http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/archive/ra/1978/Rrea00119780212.gif

[Gilly]

First morning with no frost here. Lying snow continuing to melt......another couple of days it will be gone.

The T850 on the 00z says it wil very gradually continuing getting warmer(milder) until 13th March.......after that anyone's guess again.

[Guest]

They didn't get it "partly" wrong, they got it very wrong. And they know they got it wrong. I'm glad they have scrapped them.

I was trying to be nice to the Met-O :lol: I was referring to the "BBQ" summer forecast for last summer. That one started off really well here as June was hot, dry and sunny. July was wet but sunnier than average and then August was a complete disaster. Last summer overall (locally) was actually warmer and sunnier than average; it was just a shame it was also wetter than average. So they were "partly" right.

But you're right. I could say at the start of every summer that it was going to be a BBQ summer, and then pick out the four week period which fitted the bill. That's forecasting that someone called Piers would be happy with

First morning with no frost here. Lying snow continuing to melt......another couple of days it will be gone.

The T850 on the 00z says it wil very gradually continuing getting warmer(milder) until 13th March.......after that anyone's guess again.

Yes, high pressure in control. Total snooze fest weather :lol: I think it will be a ghost town in here until this shifts:

[Cheggers]

8C already, might break the fabled 10C mark today, very nice and sunny outside with scattered clouds feeling very pleasant.

CMD I think 5 posts in 24 hours says it all really regards the weather.... mundane would be an appropriate word I think.

Heading to Palacerigg country park today as snow should still be in abundance up there. Have the Outlaws over for the weekend so will check in when I can.

[Guest]

8C already, might break the fabled 10C mark today, very nice and sunny outside with scattered clouds feeling very pleasant.

CMD I think 5 posts in 24 hours says it all really regards the weather.... mundane would be an appropriate word I think.

Heading to Palacerigg country park today as snow should still be in abundance up there. Have the Outlaws over for the weekend so will check in when I can.

What's Palacerigg like? Is there much there? I only ask as we're always on the look out for new places to take the kids as there's only so many times they (and MrsCatch) will put up with going to Summerlee....

Since the weather is slow we'll all need to find another pastime for the next week or so. There have been several spells of weather in the past three months which have been fairly boring. Even the thaw which is on just now is slow and uneventful.

[LadyPakal]

Jst enjoying my second cuppa sitting outside for the first time in an age. Just clipped the rather overgrown privets I inherited with my new house. A very pleasant 9 degrees, which after 3 months of very low temps, feels positively summerlike.

[Cheggers]

What's Palacerigg like? Is there much there? I only ask as we're always on the look out for new places to take the kids as there's only so many times they (and MrsCatch) will put up with going to Summerlee....

Since the weather is slow we'll all need to find another pastime for the next week or so. There have been several spells of weather in the past three months which have been fairly boring. Even the thaw which is on just now is slow and uneventful.

Palacerigg is a nice wee place out back of Cumbernauld. Is now a rear breeds farm, and kids get to pet quite a few of the animals especially Zebadee the Coo. Tree top walk, and if your brave take the Cotton walk across the golf course to the forest on the other side and Reindeer hidden away there as well. If you don't mind the travel, the best place we have found is Auchengarrich near Crieff, stunning views, lots of deer and wild cats, beavers etc and the kids area is fab and indoors.

Temp top 12.6C today, but is on the way down again.

[Guest]

Jst enjoying my second cuppa sitting outside for the first time in an age. Just clipped the rather overgrown privets I inherited with my new house. A very pleasant 9 degrees, which after 3 months of very low temps, feels positively summerlike.

A bunker busting 10C down here but I'm not going to cut the hedge You're keen :lol:

We finally have some green poking through the snow. Strange that parts of the grass will be growing will others are still under a thick layer of snow.

[Guest]

Palacerigg is a nice wee place out back of Cumbernauld. Is now a rear breeds farm, and kids get to pet quite a few of the animals especially Zebadee the Coo. Tree top walk, and if your brave take the Cotton walk across the golf course to the forest on the other side and Reindeer hidden away there as well. If you don't mind the travel, the best place we have found is Auchengarrich near Crieff, stunning views, lots of deer and wild cats, beavers etc and the kids area is fab and indoors.

Temp top 12.6C today, but is on the way down again.

Palacerigg sounds like an idea, as long as it's cheap. Picnic area??

Crieff is a wee bit far, although we often go to Callander and Crieff isn't that far away from there, but it's getting to be a bit of a trek from this side of Glasgow. Sounds lovely though :lol:

I see the thread is turning into a days out thread already

[Cheggers]

Palacerigg sounds like an idea, as long as it's cheap. Picnic area??

Crieff is a wee bit far, although we often go to Callander and Crieff isn't that far away from there, but it's getting to be a bit of a trek from this side of Glasgow. Sounds lovely though :lol:

I see the thread is turning into a days out thread already

Palacerigg free apart from visitors shop and canteen.

Auchengarrich is £25 for as family ticket, so not an every weekend job.

Heading out again to do a shop for Outlaws, as were out tonight.

Edited March 6, 2010 by Cheggers

[Guest]

Palacerigg free apart from visitors shop and canteen.

Auchengarrich is £25 for as family ticket, so not an every weekend job.

£25?? That's the budget gone for a whole day out even before diesel or food. I don't think we'll be there any time soon. Buying a fishing net for £1 and poking about in the Teith at Callander is more our budget

Edited March 6, 2010 by CatchMyDrift

[snowy owl]

Hi folks

Nice to be back, we've all been down with a nasty virus for the last 5 days!! would love to just get out of bed never mind the house! lol!

Anyways some interesting tips if we're looking for places to visit.

Has anyone been to the falls of clyde SWT reserve at new lanark? Just wondered what it would be like?

Jst enjoying my second cuppa sitting outside for the first time in an age. Just clipped the rather overgrown privets I inherited with my new house. A very pleasant 9 degrees, which after 3 months of very low temps, feels positively summerlike.

Fancy a trip down, have a few garden jobs that need doing ! lol!

It is rather nice to see some sunshine and some nice settled warmer weather though isn't it.

Have my eldest out cleaning the Hamster! great to get them outside for a bit.

Edited March 6, 2010 by snowy owl

[Cheggers]

£25?? That's the budget gone for a whole day out even before diesel or food. I don't think we'll be there any time soon. Buying a fishing net for £1 and poking about in the Teith at Callander is more our budget :lol:

We only go once or twice a year, but do make it a full day out, then again only 40 minutes for us, may be a bit further for you. :o Palacerigg is almost every weekend as they have a fab new park for the kids, and it's well off the main road so kids can't go far either.

Back to the weather...... :o No change, calm cloudy pleasant, boring 9.9C!

SO, Hope your feeling better, not missed much to be honest apart from the now gradual thaw happening South of the Higher ground of Perth.

[LadyPakal]

While I was *ahem* gardening, I saw an enormous flock of geese heading north. Are they trying to tell us something do you think? :o

[Gilly]

Yes, high pressure in control. Total snooze fest weather :lol: I think it will be a ghost town in here until this shifts:

Could do with a real deep low pressure giving a howling gale and a downpour for a complete change now!

Well its unlikely to reach my preferred which, is temps in excess of 20C with blue skies, just yet anyway!

While I was *ahem* gardening, I saw an enormous flock of geese heading north. Are they trying to tell us something do you think?

My garden is still under snow!!! I would love to get out and start tidying up.

[snowy owl]

Yep thanks Cheggers feeling much better and glad to say little one is eating a little too so i think we're all past the worst.

Hope your wee one is feeling the benefit of the inhalers and gets some nice spring weather soon to help too.

Geese heading north - it is a sign!!lol!! More food elsewhere is probably a sign that they've started moving north. - usually they head away in April(pinkfoot geese anyway), so if you start to see lots of northward movements then that would be a sign! There have been a lot of these birds overwintering on the east coast.

I think the weather in Greenland and other places where they came from or stopped off at on migration, has been better than here at times!

Edited March 6, 2010 by snowy owl

[skifreak]

While I was *ahem* gardening, I saw an enormous flock of geese heading north. Are they trying to tell us something do you think?

I saw a flock heading South just a week ago when that storm was hitting the Central Highlands! :unsure:

[Guest]

Hi folks

Nice to be back, we've all been down with a nasty virus for the last 5 days!! would love to just get out of bed never mind the house! lol!

Anyways some interesting tips if we're looking for places to visit.

Has anyone been to the falls of clyde SWT reserve at new lanark? Just wondered what it would be like?

I hope you feel better soon Snowy :)

We visited New Lanark but couldn't make it up to the falls of Clyde as the footpath was flooded with the Clyde in full spate. It was August 2008 when we went...

New Lanark itself is well worth a visit though, I found it a very interesting place, but then I'm interested by these things. BoyCatch liked it but I'm not sure MrsCatch was convinced...

Could do with a real deep low pressure giving a howling gale and a downpour for a complete change now!

Well its unlikely to reach my preferred which, is temps in excess of 20C with blue skies, just yet anyway!

My garden is still under snow!!! I would love to get out and start tidying up.

Our garden is now full of snow and mud after the kids were out playing the other day :unsure: At least BoyCatch wasn't the ringleader, he follows the neighbours' kids like a wee sheep

No chance of a deep low any time soon:

Edited March 7, 2010 by CatchMyDrift

[Gilly]

Continuing in present vein for a while.....certainly for the next 10 days!!

Sun is shinning and a frost still in evidence now approaching 0C

Hmmmmmm wouldnt worry about Boycatch following the others at this stage. Early days yet.

I brought up two of my own plus two step children and fostered several other kids believe me they do change and become their own person surprisingly quickly and then you wish they didn't especially when it comes to defying you:D

I always say my kids grew up in spite of me and not because of me.

Seriously, they learn .......a good base and they become surprisingly well adjusted adults, my family are even more conservative than I !

Edited March 7, 2010 by Gilly