In The News

[Methuselah]

I like what this comment best -

Obviously this particular political operator has noticed that the best way to quickly get oodles of taxpayers' dosh diverted your way is by invoking the holy scriptures of the Church of the Immaculate Global Warming BS. Nice one.

Actually the comments are hilarious

Can't possibly be as lucrative as setting one's self up as one of Osborne's chums Work Programme 'Providers'?

[4wd]

Actually the comments are hilarious

That's how most people see the non-stop tales of imminent doom - it's all become a big joke and the protagonists think the way to stop us all laughing is to ramp up the drama queen scares some more.

It is a classic misuse and abuse by jiggling the climate change is making weather worse bogey man - presumably as an excuse for not keeping on top of routine maintenance. Just the same with roads, drains, rivers and everything else.

[pottyprof]

It is a classic misuse and abuse by jiggling the climate change is making weather worse bogey man - presumably as an excuse for not keeping on top of routine maintenance. Just the same with roads, drains, rivers and everything else.

I was thinking the same. I'm expecting to read something soon saying they've been struggling financially to keep up with care and maintenance programs. Structures like that don't come cheap. I'm not saying that recent weather is having no effect, just that we need the whole story. Weather does wear things out and our house walls show the damage it does, not that they are showing any worse wear over the last 10 years.

[Gray-Wolf]

I wonder if you'd feel the same if you suddenly needed underpinning as a flash flood event had washed out one side of your foundations P.P.?

Extreme weather has extreme impacts.

[knocker]

This is very interesting as measuring global WV is not that easy and for obvious reasons is quite important.

An humidity sensor developed by the Physikalisch-Technische Bundesanstalt (PTB), the SEALDH laser hygrometer, has proven its worth when used aboard an aircraft; it fulfils all pre-conditions to be used as a transfer standard for conventional humidity-measuring instruments. This would allow the quality of air humidity measurements in the Earth's atmosphere - and, thus, also climate model computations - to be improved.

Humidity measurements in the atmosphere are of essential importance, since water vapour, as the most important natural greenhouse gas, has a strong influence on the Earth's atmospheric radiation balance and, thus, decisively influences our climate. In addition, water is responsible for meteorological phenomena such as the formation of clouds and precipitation. Hence, the atmospheric water content is an essential measurand in all climate models, but also when it comes to forecasting the weather; this measurand has to be determined with great accuracy if reliable predictions are to be made with regard to the weather and to the development of the climate. However, measuring water vapour as far as into the upper atmosphere is not an easy task, which leads to air humidity measurements differing sometimes by more than 10 % when measured in different research projects, using alternative methods, even within the scope of demanding laboratory comparisons [1]. Cloud-, precipitation- and also complex climate model computations should, however, be based on measurement data which is as accurate as possible to have sufficient significance.

http://www.ptb.de/en/aktuelles/archiv/presseinfos/pi2013/pitext/pi130225.html

[BornFromTheVoid]

More extraordinary cherry picking by WUWT, thoroughly busted by Tamino

http://wattsupwithth...t-temperatures/

http://tamino.wordpr...is-childs-play/

Cherry-Picking is Child’s Play

Anybody can do it.

Fake “skeptics†of global warming do it all the time. One of the latest and most

extreme — this one is a real doozy — comes from John Coleman. Of course it’s

regurgitated by Anthony Watts.

However, skeptical scientists have produced studies that show that

the last 15 years have seen a cooling in the United States. This is the

NOAA NCDC Climate at a Glance US annual mean temperature trend

the last 15 years.

Problem: That trend line suggesting “the last 15 years have seen a cooling in the

United States†isn’t statistically significant. Not even close. Other problem:

That’s not the last 15 years.

[laserguy]

Or it could be - perish the thought - that there really haven't been all that many record-cold events happening?

How do you, as a sceptic, explain the poleward migration of plant and animal species, barrie?

They're trying to get away from all the record snowfalls which are happening all over the planet right now. They're not daft - they knew what was coming - none of this scurrying away from alleged,miniscule rises over decades which disrupts their world so much.

[knocker]

Talking about snow cover. Cherry picking?

[BornFromTheVoid]

They're trying to get away from all the record snowfalls which are happening all over the planet right now. They're not daft - they knew what was coming - none of this scurrying away from alleged,miniscule rises over decades which disrupts their world so much. Pah! Either that or they've had enough of babbling AGW types and are off to live with the eskimos.

Not that I expect you to give any evidence for "record snowfalls which are happening all over the planet right now," but do you not think increased temperatures can increase the snowfall potential in many regions?

Edited March 5, 2013 by Paul
Really needed?

[Gray-Wolf]

They're trying to get away from all the record snowfalls which are happening all over the planet right now. They're not daft - they knew what was coming - none of this scurrying away from alleged,miniscule rises over decades which disrupts their world so much.

Back in the day my old mum used to say "it's too cold to snow"......she didn't know why but she knew it was......we are seeing places that used to be too dry for snowfall now accepting snow (if you didn't used to get snow then it doesn't take much to break your 'record' does it?). The warming of the atmosphere and ,more importantly the increase in humidity will see snowfall totals rise across some areas of the planet.

The 'fact' remains though that even such record dumpings are melting away far ealier in the year. It's like the cries for 'record' sea ice in the Arctic. Does it really matter if as soon as spring has sprung the snow/ice has gone??

[Methuselah]

They're trying to get away from all the record snowfalls which are happening all over the planet right now. They're not daft - they knew what was coming - none of this scurrying away from alleged,miniscule rises over decades which disrupts their world so much.

So how do you explain poleward migrations, barrie? Surely, flora and fauna don't listen to Al Gore or Michael Mann?

'Sceptics' can make countless phony FOI requests, in a futile attempt to make folks believe that temperature-sensors have been clandestinely moved too close to extract grilles, but they seem to be entirely unable to explain away whatever it is that wildlife decides to do...

[knocker]

The making of Antarctica's hidden fjords

Antarctica's topography began changing from flat to fjord-filled starting about 34 million years ago, according to a new report from a University of Arizona-led team of geoscientists.

Knowing when Antarctica's topography started shifting from a flat landscape to one with glaciers, fjords and mountains is important for modeling how the Antarctic ice sheet affects global climate and sea-level rise.

Although radar surveys have revealed a rugged alpine landscape under Antarctica's two-mile-thick ice sheet, the surveys tell nothing about when the continent's deep valleys formed.

"We have worked out how the landscape under the ice has changed through time," said lead author Stuart N. Thomson.

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2013-03/uoa-tmo030513.php

[Gray-Wolf]

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/03/130305145133.htm

This will not please a lot of folk who'd rather see this glut of extremes being merely a statistical fluke but, as time goes on and further 'extremes' crowd in, there has to be a point where we all ask "What is going on?" and find our recent climate changes are the only reasonable explaination for this run of extremes?

[BornFromTheVoid]

http://www.scienceda...30305145133.htm

This will not please a lot of folk who'd rather see this glut of extremes being merely a statistical fluke but, as time goes on and further 'extremes' crowd in, there has to be a point where we all ask "What is going on?" and find our recent climate changes are the only reasonable explaination for this run of extremes?

Interesting link. I'd like to see the original piece though. How long before the possible link is dismissed out of hand by those that dislike the conclusion?

It was only a few months ago that our discussion of the link between Arctic Amplification and Sandy was ridiculed and called "bonkers" by some members and mods here

[laserguy]

... but they seem to be entirely unable to explain away whatever it is that wildlife decides to do...

Then they'd better look harder for an answer if it really bothers them that much, instead of the easy way out via CO2 etc. Re record snowfalls - do a little digging (pun not intended) and ye shall find. Blaming those on a warming world (when the net result,allegedly,is cold and snow) is as crazy as blaming drought on too much rain. Think hard about that. And I do actually hope you're right about extremes GW - I'm bored of our daily dose of mediocrity and would like a part of the action. Waiting for CO2 to work its magic in my neck of the woods is getting a little tiresome.

[BornFromTheVoid]

Then they'd better look harder for an answer if it really bothers them that much, instead of the easy way out via CO2 etc. Re record snowfalls - do a little digging (pun not intended) and ye shall find. Blaming those on a warming world (when the net result,allegedly,is cold and snow) is as crazy as blaming drought on too much rain. Think hard about that. And I do actually hope you're right about extremes GW - I'm bored of our daily dose of mediocrity and would like a part of the action. Waiting for CO2 to work its magic in my neck of the woods is getting a little tiresome.

So are you claiming the northern hemisphere is colder than normal now? Have you access to some data set showing this that we haven't heard of?

You do know that warming doesn't equate to less snow in many situations, right? A fractured and weak Arctic ice pack also contributes extra moisture to the atmosphere.

Edited March 6, 2013 by BornFromTheVoid

[4wd]

The problem with 'explaining recent extremes' is that the supposed extreme events aren't extreme, except perhaps that recent decades have been unusually benign.

But they have been extremely hyped by activist science in cahoots with 24/7 media - aided by instant upload to youtube in reasonable quality from smartphones.

50 years ago you would see a little paragraph on page 12 of the newspaper a week after the event, by which time it would be seen in perspective as weather..

[BornFromTheVoid]

Have you anything to say about the actual evidence 4wd? The many studies now linking Arctic Amplification with extreme weather?

[Thundery wintry showers]

The biggest problem with the arguments about increased cold and snow, in my view, is the increase in the mean global temperature- by definition, if the globe is warming up, we are experiencing global warming. It doesn't matter if we get regional cooling, if this is more than offset by warming in other parts of the world. January 2013 continued the long run of above-average months for global temperature:

http://www.ncdc.noaa...c/global/2013/1

...and 2012 as a whole was the 10th warmest year globally according to NCDC despite having started off with a La Nina event which normally causes a short-term fall in global temperatures:

http://www.ncdc.noaa.../global/2012/13

There are other global temperature series, most notably those by Hadley/CRU and by NASA/GISS, but they both show similar results.

The decadal averages continue to rise- the 2000s were warmer than the 1990s, which were warmer than the 1980s, which were warmer than the 1970s. If the 2010s come in with a mean global temperature that is similar to the 2000s, then I think there will be a stronger case for global warming having stopped, but for now, it appears difficult to put forward strong arguments for a position that advances on, "the rate of warming may have reduced since the mid to late 1990s".

On the other hand, I don't think the current rate of warming is consistent with a rise of more than 2.5C, relative to pre-industrial levels, by the end of the century. It is entirely possible that the rate of increase may rise during the 21st century as positive feedbacks come into play, but so far I haven't seen evidence of that happening to global temperatures, despite considerable evidence of amplification around the Arctic Circle and with carbon dioxide concentrations.

Edited March 6, 2013 by Thundery wintry showers

[Methuselah]

Then they'd better look harder for an answer if it really bothers them that much, instead of the easy way out via CO2 etc. Re record snowfalls - do a little digging (pun not intended) and ye shall find. Blaming those on a warming world (when the net result,allegedly,is cold and snow) is as crazy as blaming drought on too much rain. Think hard about that. And I do actually hope you're right about extremes GW - I'm bored of our daily dose of mediocrity and would like a part of the action. Waiting for CO2 to work its magic in my neck of the woods is getting a little tiresome.

I didn't mention CO₂, Barrie; I am simply interested in how sceptics explain the observed wholesale poleward-migration of flora and fauna...

[Gray-Wolf]

It's just a 'natural, cyclical thing' Pete??? How else would we see Knocker's Giant Camels on Ellesmere Island.....they tend to go on long vacations regardless of the weather.....

As far as wanting to see 'impacts' L.G.right now I'd point you to the ongoing 'Crackopolypse' event Across the Arctic Basin.

Consider the implications for the coming melt season with half the older ice flushed out into Fram before the melt gets going and the rest in small floes awaiting the first of the GAC12esque storms of the summer (if you are one of those who think GAC12 caused the dramatic ice losses in lateJuly early Aug last year)....if you do not believe that the energy that our ongoing Albedo Flip pours into the climate system then you will have no concerns should crackopolypse lead to an early rapid melt out of the sea ice (and the knock on impacts on land snow/ice from such an early melt out) this summer as it will not fuel extremes in climate or weather over the coming summer throughout the northern hemisphere?

Edited March 6, 2013 by Gray-Wolf

[4wd]

New low from climate campaigners:

https://realitydrop.org/

Internet Bot will seek out climate related stories and reply with stock phrases in support or to debunk.

Just like in here then.

[knocker]

Do you not think it better to read scientific papers rather than the Al Gore and other members of The Climate Reality Project?

[BornFromTheVoid]

New low from climate campaigners:

https://realitydrop.org/

Internet Bot will seek out climate related stories and reply with stock phrases in support or to debunk.

Just like in here then.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

[Paul]

I wonder if half the people using these threads actually have any interest in learning anything about the subject, or whether they just turn up here to have a go at people or drop the odd grenade in the hope it provokes response? If you've nothing constructive or informative to add to the discussion then please don't bother posting.