Major Hurricane Irene

[weatherobsuk]

FEMA suspending payments for Joplin recovery, and other tornado ravaged areas, in order to pay for Irene

[cyclonic happiness]

[gottolovethisweather]

I agree on the whole with the last few comments re: the hype. However as I was watching it all unfold earlier on CNN, some of the headlines IIRC were along the lines of...........

3 million without power along the Eastern seaboard

At least 8 dead since the storm came aground mainland US

River Levels have overcome the boardwalks all around south carolina and New York etc.

Furniture floating down Philly streets

12-15 inches of torrential expected in many parts

River Hudson overflowing in places

Yes I agree it appears overhyped especially when days before it even makes landfall a person such as President Obama is calling it a historic storm.

In the light of the next few days, the damage statistics may prove otherwise and back up what appear to be rash judgements.

Interestingly though in terms of great natural events, the whole event Hurricane Irene would be well down the list.

Kind Regards

gottolovethisweather

Edited August 28, 2011 by gottolovethisweather

[Aaron]

So Irene made landfall on New York City as a category 1 hurricane but shortly after was downgraded to a TS, hm.

Just for thought, in Scotland there are 58 mph sustained winds, stronger than Irene in New York.

Edited August 28, 2011 by aaron

[weatherobsuk]

It does make you think. Here in the UK not just Scotland, but even here in South Manchester we have experienced 90mph sustained winds (for a time) from deep Atlantic cyclogensis more times than I can recollect. Yet no 'categorisation' of these storms outside of what comes from Europe is avaliable to the public for whatever reason, The NHC even fails to accept these types of events are TD/TS/Hurricanes in nature because of the complexity of the systems aswell as SST sustainability. Yet Barocyclonic Leaf depressions hold more lateral energy than a CAT5 energy, just more widely dispersed.

Since Gustav and the 'storm of the century' rubbish that was spouted out across the media, and failings that led to many deaths along the Louisiana seafronts I've noticed many inconsistencies with these storms. Turn on Faux News and who would know a major Typhoon is heading right for Taiwan or Scotland seeing a topographic rainfall event, no, all they want is the ratings covering a TS. Then act surprised when it finally dumps all that moisture across upstate New York as if its something unprecidented and never seen before..literally banging my head on the table and clutching at straws trying to think how they can justify creating this 'doom' over 50mph winds, and rainfall event that really should now be covered by the local SPC agencies.

[AderynCoch]

NYC likely experienced sustained hurricane-force winds before the eye made landfall. In fact, the NHC wind swath supports this assertion:

http://www.nhc.noaa....?large#contents

Has there been storm surge and over seven inches of rainfall in Scotland today? Has anyone actually experienced 90mph winds sustained for at least a full minute in this country?

Edited August 28, 2011 by AderynCoch

[cyclonic happiness]

NYC likely experienced sustained hurricane-force winds before the eye made landfall. In fact, the NHC wind swath supports this assertion:

http://www.nhc.noaa....?large#contents

Has there been storm surge and over seven inches of rainfall in Scotland today? Has anyone actually experienced 90mph winds sustained for at least a full minute in this country?

there have been storms that bad and worse in this country within my lifetime that have killed more and caused more damage and been stronger.

It's not a competition we are just saying that they've 'overblown' the thing a bit compared to if the same thing had hit blighty.

[weatherobsuk]

There's been a 5 meter swell out in the North Sea today, catching out one cargo vessel. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-14699853

Not to mention winds in excess of 70mph right up to 90mph recorded gusts hitting the Cairngorms althroughout today. http://www.meteogroup.co.uk/uk/home/weather/world-weather/weather-stations/obsid/3065.html

You could typically argue that the Cairngorms isn't downtown NYC, but still the windspeeds are there and have verifiably been recorded. Plenty of people in the UK who may want to travel to these parts such as tourists, hikers, anglers on the coast etc would be oblivious to all this.

[AderynCoch]

I do agree that the coverage of the storm in NYC is a bit excessive at the moment (North Carolina and Virginia suffered far worse).

As far as I'm aware, the mandatory evacuation only applied to those low-lying areas vulnerable to storm surge flooding. That was always going to be a bigger danger than the winds, as strong as they were. It's not a competition, but I do think it's comparing apples with oranges.

[Iceberg]

It'd be interesting in the analysis of this, to see what determined the NHC to keep Irene up to CAT1 status right into the Lower New York Bay with literally 20 minutes to go before forecasted landfall into the city, only for them to reclassify the storm TS despite the same reading being released for the past 12hr.

Irene coming out of Virginia Beach was the last strongest recorded winds by ground obs (chasers) at 72mph, although even this gust wasn't sustained to categorise Irene at CAT1. Windfield maps show the field around the barocyclonical low (which at TS it is) on the strongest side to the East, where doppler showed strongest convection that should have brought gusts lower to ground level to the West. This is more indicative to me of a TS undergoing Cyclogensis and sustainability through a Barocyclonic Leaf that was aided by Irene interracting with a occuluded front to her West coming in mid-states.

Did the NHC keep her at CAT1 just to rally up the statistic totals for 2011? it's been known that they tend to play with the figures statistically in order to show their data offset can be validated if a season is unusually weaker/stronger than on average. I'm going to love reading the analysis and what excuse NHC has on keeping a cold-core system, barely maintaining gusts of 60mph, nevermind 75mph sustained. holding that warning right up until NYC 'til 'zero hour.'

The guys at HurricaneTrack & crazymother.tv were discussing the very same thing. How this 'hurricane' never had any sustainable CAT1 force gusts even when it was going through the Carolinas, and watching the live feeds I was nodding my head and agree'ing with them. Is it the scale which is wrong? expecting sustained winds even though the obs have recorded them offshore, yet the msm and NHC are continually repeating a threat which is non-existent (making people even more wary next time it happens), or just a case of liasoning between the agencies? Its way too presumptious to tell I know given Irene is barely passing Manhattan as the TS she now is, but its a question that needs to be asked if not sooner than later, given we are still in peak Hurricane season.

Re the comment above and some of the other comments, purely IMO, but the decisions etc to evacuate were made 72 hrs before hand, at this time Irene still had a chance of getting it's inner core back together and so this was the only real decision they could have made. Re the Press, yes they were late to the story, over hyped it and then mis-reported it many times.

Irene and her winds were hurricane IMO.It was a warm core system looking at phase analysis when it hit New york. What you have to remember is that the inner core was not a typical hurricane because the core could not sustain the classic eye walls, it still had good circular banding though and this stopped the pressure from dropping to much. The pressure in the centre was created and sustained by the tropical charecteristics of Irene.

The winds although away from centre were sustained by the tropical core IMO.

[tinybill]

Just makes me laugh when the governer of Conneticut just said, "We are still being impacted with gusts of wind up to 40 mph." Gusts? 40mph? lol, hide under the bed time. Tell that to the Islanders in the north of Scotland, they will die laughing.

And before I get shouted down I do realise this had the potential to be deadly and they were right to take precautions but I do wish they would admit it wasn't as bad as could have been.

good job we dont hide over here 40 -60 mph on our coasts in winter!!!

[coldfingers]

NYC likely experienced sustained hurricane-force winds before the eye made landfall. In fact, the NHC wind swath supports this assertion:

http://www.nhc.noaa....?large#contents

Has there been storm surge and over seven inches of rainfall in Scotland today? Has anyone actually experienced 90mph winds sustained for at least a full minute in this country?

Yes to the last sentence. We did experience full hurricane conditions down here on the south coast during the '78 storm. A small area, from the I.O.W to Worthing (including Bognor) did experience 90mph sustained winds for at least a minute that night. Anyone who lived here that night and experienced the aftermath will back me up on that. To see an entire forest flattened and numerous trees snapped off halfway up their trunks due to hurricanes spawned within the storm you would never doubt the sustained wind speeds during that time. It makes me tired to hear people try to downgrade the severity of that storm when they were far from the affected areas. Cross Channel ferries were stranded on beaches for goodness sake, didn't see that in this 'hurricane' also sadly far more people were killed and injured during the '78 storm and many more would have been killed if we hadn't been so fortunate that it struck during the early hours of the morning.

And ITN reports of that night.

Edited August 28, 2011 by coldfingers

[Polar Bear]

I remember it CF - totally ruined the Kingley Vale didnt it not to mention several school friends houses who discovered treess right through them by the morning. Some very lucky excapes

Slates and roofs coming off at night which I distinctly remember the roar. It was my dad who realised it was wrong he is a sailor man. But he said her remembered looking out the window and seeing the christmas tree which was a fair old height above the house doubled over.

Next morning no school and everywhere a mess. Boats had dragged moorrings miles (and moorring blocks are massive 2 x 2x 2 concrete blockes)...some had appeared oon the roads...

oh memory lane got hold of me there...

[knocker]

did experience 90mph sustained winds for at least a minute that night. Anyone who lived here that night and experienced the aftermath will back me up on that.

Officially sustained winds are measured over 10 minutes.

[Paranoid]

In Britain they are measured over 10 minutes, but the NHC uses 1 minute values.

[knocker]

Sounds all a bit naughty I wonder what people in the keys and New Orleans think of all the fuss. Looks like the media hype overtook official thinking so they kept it higher level longer than they should have. Well I'll guess they'll have to get used to over-hyped warnings just like we have to do.

Media hype? Lets not forget NW forum hype. After all this is better than the METO.

In Britain they are measured over 10 minutes, but the NHC uses 1 minute values.

Not just in Britain. But the post was talking anout Britain.

Edited August 28, 2011 by weather ship

[AderynCoch]

Yes to the last sentence. We did experience full hurricane conditions down here on the south coast during the '78 storm. A small area, from the I.O.W to Worthing (including Bognor) did experience 90mph sustained winds for at least a minute that night. Anyone who lived here that night and experienced the aftermath will back me up on that. To see an entire forest flattened and numerous trees snapped off halfway up their trunks due to hurricanes spawned within the storm you would never doubt the sustained wind speeds during that time. It makes me tired to hear people try to downgrade the severity of that storm when they were far from the affected areas. Cross Channel ferries were stranded on beaches for goodness sake, didn't see that in this 'hurricane' also sadly far more people were killed and injured during the '78 storm and many more would have been killed if we hadn't been so fortunate that it struck during the early hours of the morning.

Actually, that storm was one of the few candidates I had in mind. I still don't know about 90mph sustained for a full minute though: I'm sure it doesn't need to be that high to cause the damage you describe.

As for Irene, surely the whole point was to prepare for the worst-case scenario? That it wasn't that bad for NYC is besides the point - it could have been a lot worse.

[davehsug]

Does irene still have an eye? i ask because BBC bews earlier, showed an overlay with an eye very much intact & I was under the impression that it hadn't had one for sometime. I shouted some abuse at the TV 'because I am sick of the truth not beong told in news broadcasts, but I might have been wrong.

[Somerset Squall]

I doesn't Dave and I'm pretty sure it hasn't had one all day.

Irene is now pretty much extratropical. NHC say the last advisory will most likely be the last, and looking a satellite imagery, I agree.

[Paranoid]

I saw the same report Dave and thought the same, i think it's just a random graphic they use when they have Hurricanes, i think i saw them use it a while back for (For Earl in 2010 maybe?). I don't think Irene has had a visible eye since it left the Bahamas a few days ago.

[Coast]

Post-tropical cyclone Irene, downgraded from a monster Category 1 hurricane, is whipping up ferocious winds and dumping rain on Quebec and the Maritime provinces as it moves north toward the Canadian border from the U.S. Even as a weakened storm, Irene knocked out power to thousands of Quebec homes early Sunday evening after having walloped the U.S. north-east, leaving massive flooding and potentially billions of dollars worth of destruction in its wake. Early Monday morning, the centre of post-tropical storm Irene was near the border between Maine and Quebec, the Canadian Hurricane Centre said.

"Tropical storm warnings have been ended for portions of coastal Nova Scotia and New Brunswick," the hurricane centre said in an early morning statement.Some warnings and watches were lifted, but others remained in place as the storm shifted to the northeast. Rainfall warnings were also lifted in New Brunswick, but they were still in effect in parts of southern Quebec, forecaster said. Forecasters said the heaviest rain early Monday was in Quebec, with strong winds occurring over parts of Quebec and the Maritimes. "Wind warnings are still in effect for mainland Nova Scotia, all but northwestern New Brunswick, Prince Edward Island and portions of southern Quebec," the centre said in a statement released around 3 a.m. ET.

Though the storm had weakened, areas in the storm's path were still on guard for the threat of dangerous storm surges and more power outages. "Heavy seas, pounding surf and higher than normal water levels are expected along the Fundy coast of New Brunswick near noon today," the hurricane centre said. Irene's impact was felt midday Sunday in south and eastern Quebec, where winds and blowing rain started in the early afternoon, knocking out power across the province and leaving thousands of clients in the dark. Most of the outages were in the Montreal area, according to Hydro-Québec, as Irene's outer bands lashed at the area and hovered over New England.

Trees whipped by heavy rain and wind fell to a thud in Montreal and traffic signals were malfunctioning. Police were forced to close a section of a downtown street after gusts blew away two windows from the seventh and 19th floors of a building. Nobody was injured. Nearly 50 millimetres of rain had already fallen in parts of southern New Brunswick by late afternoon on Sunday.

In Fredericton, more than 30 homes in the area had their basements flooded during heavy rain.

By late evening Sunday, tree branches had reportedly fallen onto roadways in western Nova Scotia and southern New Brunswick. About 5,000 customers were without electricity in New Brunswick.

In the U.S., millions of people along the eastern seaboard were without power Sunday as the storm pounded New York. Hydro-Québec has sent 54 emergency teams to New Hampshire to help Irene relief efforts south of the border.

http://www.cbc.ca/ne...canada-829.html

[knocker]

I doesn't Dave and I'm pretty sure it hasn't had one all day.

Irene is now pretty much extratropical. NHC say the last advisory will most likely be the last, and looking a satellite imagery, I agree.

I think that's correct SS. I hept an eye on the GOES-east sat. during the day and there was no eye. I think it more or less vanished after this image on the 27th.

[Polar Bear]

http://www.cbc.ca/ne...canada-829.html

Hey Coast

Yes just caught up on BBCnews this evening and seems they have had a fair bit of trouble in land - vermont to name but a few... Rivers swelling flooding looks pretty bad,

All the whlle everyone' s( media, officials) eyes were on the coasts but inland having a rough time...mind you on here I remember afew forum members raised this as warning shots across the bows...what a pity some of the media experts dont think about checking the thoughts on this site.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/29/us-storm-irene-idUSTRE77K01820110829

P

[Coast]

Hurricane Irene death toll rises

The full measure of Hurricane Irene's fury has come into focus as the death toll passed 44, while towns in the northern US region of New England battled floods and millions were still without electricity. From North Carolina to Maine, communities cleaned up and took stock of the uneven and hard-to-predict costs of a storm that spared the nation's biggest city a nightmare scenario, only to deliver a historic wallop to towns well inland. In New York city, where people had braced for a disaster-movie scene of water swirling around skyscrapers, the tube stations and buses were up and running again in time for the Monday morning commute. And to the surprise of many New Yorkers, things went pretty smoothly.

But to the north, landlocked Vermont contended with what its governor called the worst flooding in a century. Streams also raged out of control in rural, upstate New York. In many cases, the moment of maximum danger arrived well after the storm had passed, as rainwater made its way into rivers and streams and turned them into torrents. Irene dumped up to 11ins of rain on Vermont and more than 13ins in parts of New York.

"We were expecting heavy rains," said Bobbi-Jean Jeun of Clarksville, a hamlet near Albany, New York. "We were expecting flooding. We weren't expecting devastation. It looks like somebody set a bomb off." Irene killed at least five people in the Dominican Republic and Haiti. The first known casualty was a woman who died trying to cross a swollen river in the US territory of Puerto Rico. The death toll for 11 eastern US states had stood at 21 as of Sunday night, then rose sharply to at least 38 as bodies were pulled from floodwaters and people were struck by falling trees or electrocuted by downed power lines. A driver was missing after a road collapsed and swallowed two cars about 62 miles north-east of Montreal. "It's going to take time to recover from a storm of this magnitude," President Barack Obama warned as he promised the government would do everything in its power to help people get back on their feet.

Early estimates put Irene's damage at 7-10 billion dollars (£4.2-6bn), much smaller than the impact of monster storms such as Hurricane Katrina, which did more than 100 billion dollars in damage.

http://www.google.co...21314681503280A

[Polar Bear]

hmm and I see Irene still has a projected path according the BBC - she cant be called a Tropical Storm surely by now if she has charged several miles in land?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-14720910

Talking of Tropical Storms I see Katia is hot on the heels..what has this lady have in plan and route? .....best get over to that thread now! ...see you all there!