Winter 2011/12 - General Discussion

[syed2878]

A crap winter snow lasted lessthan 24hours. So 3 out of 10.

[ZONE 51]

Has anyone checked out the history of March cold/snowy spells? im sure some have, and i can say that the potential is there-as you would read looking at past events....Much chance has come and gone this winter with some having snowfall and others nothing, that is how it is unless we get a more rare sustained and widespread period of cold/snow,which then of course covers most if not all areas with at least a dusting of snow.

Thinking about March and cold, now if one of those widespread snowy/cold spells did come along and then it lasted 3/4 wks and took March to the record books, then some might just have more confidence on the return of wintry weather during March, because most do not expect that month to provide some widespread snowfall events, but it has a history of anything from severe gales, to dry high pressure of nothing much, to severe cold and snow..

Edited February 15, 2012 by ElectricSnowStorm

[NorthernRab]

It is here.

I'd be surprised if we got any appreciable snow this coming spring.

That's what I was trying to say earlier, where I'm from (i.e just beside Inverness on high ground in the Scottish Highlands) we'll likely see some significant snowfall over the next month, and it's often our best (5 days of up to a foot in certain synoptics). Easterlies are not best for us at all, we need a northerly and it's the northern element that sees our region fall into the -20'Cs.

[Peter H]

Thinking about March and cold, now if one of those widespread snowy/cold spells did come along and then it lasted 3/4 wks and took March to the record books, then some might just have more confidence on the return of wintry weather during March, because most do not expect that month to provide some widespread snowfall events, but it has a history of anything from severe gales, to dry high pressure of nothing much, to severe cold and snow..

From what I can remember of March snow and cold spells, it's far too late for snow to settle for any appreciable length of time, except over high ground, So I'd forget about snow this winter if you haven't had any at this stage.

Weather online's weekly forecast has an all too brief cold "snap" at the weekend (temperatures of +6 are hardly that cold anyway) and then increasingly mild next week, so that's it for February (so much for the 4 weeks of arctic weather).

By the end of the month everyone will be complaining how mild it is again. .

[Peter H]

P.S. my memory goes back over 50 years. I seem to remember we had at least 4 inches of snow in March 1964, but I can't recall that scenario ever happening since.

[La Bise]

Got to hand it to you Peter, you truly are a splendidly grumpy chap. I read your posts in a thick NI accent for added effect...

[BLAST FROM THE PAST]

It would be very ironic for best snowfalls to arrive in 1st month of Spring when the ground is unlikely to remain snowcovered

BFTP

[joggs]

It would be very ironic for best snowfalls to arrive in 1st month of Spring when the ground is unlikely to remain snowcovered

BFTP

It certainly would blast. Is this what your expecting?

[Yorkshiresnows]

P.S. my memory goes back over 50 years. I seem to remember we had at least 4 inches of snow in March 1964, but I can't recall that scenario ever happening since.

Try March 22 2008.

4 inches of snow fell over lowland England in a Northwesterly as a Trough formed. Snow lasted throughout Easter Day .... though most did melt within 24-48 hrs.

That weekend was cold with continuous snow showers down to sea level with hard overnight frosts.

Y.S

[Peter H]

Try March 22 2008.

4 inches of snow fell over lowland England in a Northwesterly as a Trough formed. Snow lasted throughout Easter Day .... though most did melt within 24-48 hrs.

That weekend was cold with continuous snow showers down to sea level with hard overnight frosts.

Y.S

Didn't happen here.

[johnholmes]

never mid Peter your turn for deep cold, frost and snow will come I'm sure

[Eugene]

As ever the northerly blast is getting shorter by the day with an active jet flattening the pattern in no time, we then have the usual dross of ridging azores high and alternating very mild/cooler westerlies, very uninspiring charts and the reset to the exceptionally cold pattern people in the north wanted looks like delivering only a day or two of cold at the most and not potent by day either with light air frosts at night the best we can hope for.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Eugene

[Peter H]

never mid Peter your turn for deep cold, frost and snow will come I'm sure

If nothing transpires snow wise over the next few weeks John (and it's now looking increasingly unlikely), that's it until probably December 2012.

That'll be two years without any appreciable snow whatsoever. Really quite a long time, even for these parts.

I suppose that's the result of a Bartlett high winter, rather than a lazy jet stream one..

I remember hearing Philip Eden last December blethering on about lazy jet stream winters clumping together.

How wrong he was.

[Peter H]

As ever the northerly blast is getting shorter by the day with an active jet flattening the pattern in no time, we then have the usual dross of ridging azores high and alternating very mild/cooler westerlies, very uninspiring charts and the reset to the exceptionally cold pattern people in the north wanted looks like delivering only a day or two of cold at the most and not potent by day either with light air frosts at night the best we can hope for.

Personally Eugene, I would regard the scond half of February as being part of spring rather than winter, and the end of November as winter rather than Autumn.

[Eugene]

Indeed the blocking occurred at the wrong place- but despite this, the retrogressing russian block allowed a very cold first half of the month for much of Central and Eastern England.

Thanks for acknowledging this Isolated Frost, all i have read is that it was southern and southeastern england that enjoyed the very cold weather and forgot/ignored that central england did too.

[Eugene]

Personally Eugene, I would regard the scond half of February as being part of spring rather than winter, and the end of November as winter rather than Autumn

If you mean sun strength and more day light then maybe but on temperature averages then definately no i dont agree, even March has similar daytime average maxs to November with colder minimums than November on average, mid to late Feb can offer some very cold weather to challenge when the sun is at its weakest late November to late January.

Second half of August may feel more autumnal than late May to late July but it sure can feel the most humid due to warm seas.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Eugene

[I remember Atlantic 252]

Personally Eugene, I would regard the scond half of February as being part of spring rather than winter, and the end of November as winter rather than Autumn.

Yeah I think that as well, 2nd half of Feb Spring, sun was strong today, if only out briefly

[Aaron]

Second half of February is spring? How?? If anything the first part of March is winter because it certainly is not a warm, sunny month by anyone's standards. You're more likely to see snow in March then November without a shadow of a doubt.

[sundog]

The 2nd half of Feb can often feel spring like but i still regard it as winter.The 2nd half of Nov can certainly feel like winter but i still regard it as autumn.

[Eugene]

I feel its very premature to call the second half of February spring, even the first half of March isnt proper spring to me and spring proper begins around the spring equinox(march 20th - 22nd).

Daytime temps of just 1C were recorded in the NE midlands in late April 1981 with temps not getting above 3C in Birmingham for 3 days, below that in rural hilly districts of the south midlands.

[TonyH]

Along with heavy snow too!

[Peter H]

I feel its very premature to call the second half of February spring, even the first half of March isnt proper spring to me and spring proper begins around the spring equinox(march 20th - 22nd).

Daytime temps of just 1C were recorded in the NE midlands in late April 1981 with temps not getting above 3C in Birmingham for 3 days, below that in rural hilly districts of the south midlands.

and that was 31 years ago (didn't happen here on that occasion either)

No, I'm thinking more of the daylight hours and likelyhood of snow.

I seem to remember more snow late November than late February over the years. Also, late November often feels more like winter than late February.

Late February and early March can be very spring like indeed, largely due to the much stronger sunlight.

[Cheshire Freeze]

and that was 31 years ago (didn't happen here on that occasion either)

I seem to remember more snow late November than late February over the years. Also, late November often feels more like winter than late February.

Well you're either very young (remembering the snow of November 2005, 2010 etc) or your memory is faltering- snow in March is more common than December let alone November

[KTtom]

Well you're either very young (remembering the snow of November 2005, 2010 etc) or your memory is faltering- snow in March is more common than December let alone November

Indeed, I recall our local weatherman (Wales Today) stating that statistically in Wales a white easter is more common than a white Christmas.

[Aaron]

But what does daylight hours have to do with anything? March doesn't even feel like spring, up here the average maximum temperatures are still below 10C with average minimums below 2C!! That is not spring-like weather.

Well you're either very young (remembering the snow of November 2005, 2010 etc) or your memory is faltering- snow in March is more common than December let alone November

Even after the snowfall of 2010/2008/2005 etc there's no way on earth I would call late November wintry. If anything early December feels more like autumn