Model Mayhem - Moan, Ramp, Go Nuts

[mushymanrob]

Before anyone comes back with, "I'm not cheering at other people's misery", I'm guessing that the first part of that post is really meaning, "cheering at something that is causing others misery". Technically, people are indeed deriving enjoyment from something that is causing others pain, but the same argument could be put forward against those who cheer at a hot dry sunny summer while London tube commuters fry in temperatures of 40C, thousands die from the heat in France, and wildlife suffers because of the high evapotranspiration rates and lack of rainfall.

I don't agree with people being required to tone down their enjoyment of the weather out of 'respect' for others' suffering, but as I think I touched upon a while ago, I do feel uneasy when I see people posting as if they are speaking for everybody in saying that we want a continuation of the cold weather- I can see that providing a real slap in the face for those who are suffering from it.

Spring is a notoriously fickle season though and things can switch around pretty quickly without a lot of warning. Chinomaniac made a post earlier today which suggested that the teleconnections are pointing towards a Euro high as being the dominant feature in the second half of April, with the high likely to heavily influence the British Isles- this would provide a very stark contrast with the current spell of weather. And of course we had that consistently cold spring of 1975, the snowfalls on the 2nd June, and then a summer scorcher- August 1975's CET has been exceeded only twice since (in 1995 and 1997).

....the difference is, heat in summer, freezing in winter... seasonal.

this prolonged unseasonal weather is more damaging, especially to wildlife whos breeding season it is, or farmers and growers whos whole year depends upon getting crops and livestock going NOW. just watch the price of lamb rocket, see how many more hillfarmers go under, the paper reckons theres 5000 deaths attributed to this cold (but thats just a daft figure, but no doubt there are alot who would be alive now if we had a normal spring).

ever watched 'storm chasers'? reed timmer knows when to curb his enthusiasm, when people are getting hurt, when property and livelyhoods are being destroyed. id suggest theres a lesson of consideration to the bigger picture to be learned there that over rides personal gratification at something that is of no benefit whatsoever to anyone, even the fans of cold.

[mushymanrob]

I think the main reasons for the interest in continued cold weather are the chances of getting the coldest March in many of our lifetimes

sorry mate, not having a go at you lol but

and what would that achieve? so you lived through a cold march... and?.. how has that enriched your life? its a meaningless statistic. meanwhile the money in your pocket isnt going as far as this cold adds to the countries misfortune.

as ian dury once sang.... reasons to be cheerful, part two... lol.

[UV-RAY]

As others have stated there is just as much misery to livestock and people suffering from extreme heat, who in their right mind would want that apart from sadist weirdos

[mushymanrob]

As others have stated there is just as much misery to livestock and people suffering from extreme heat, who in their right mind would want that apart from sadist weirdos

.... and who said they do (ignore heat stress in livestock)? so are fans of extreme cold sadists and weirdos too? or is that only applicable to non cold fans?

the salient point is that spring is the breeding season, nature is at its most vunerable after a long winter, if livestock, nature, fails to breed successfully in spring, there will be nothing to suffer in a hot summer! ... but most wildlife can sustain a hot summer better then a cold spring.

Edited March 25, 2013 by mushymanrob

[UV-RAY]

.... and who said they do (ignore heat stress in livestock)? so are fans of extreme cold sadists and weirdos too? or is that only applicable to non cold fans?

the salient point is that spring is the breeding season, nature is at its most vunerable after a long winter, if livestock, nature, fails to breed successfully in spring, there will be nothing to suffer in a hot summer! ... but most wildlife can sustain a hot summer better then a cold spring.

There should have been a smiley mushy but I'm on my iPad. Nature will adapt it always does, remember we are only in the first few weeks of spring and many migratory birds haven't yet arrived to these shores. As for hot summers you also have to think about us humans as there are plenty of asthma sufferers who would disagree with you on that point, not to mention all those others who have heart conditions. Extreme heat kills thousands of these people so ideally our temperate climate is ideal for those Edited March 25, 2013 by Sceptical Inquirer

[starstream]

well as far as most of us posters go,after a wet summer ,what seems like a very very long winter,a.non existent start to spring,lets just hope we don't have a catastrophic summer.

wildlife can't take it, tourism trade,construction industry and no doubt many other trades wont take it.

It highlights just how teeny and insignificant we are....cos the weather will do whatever it wants!

but right now,some sunshine even with the cold would be lovely.

this slate grey weather is awful.

[mushymanrob]

There should have been a smiley mushy but I'm on my iPad. Nature will adapt it always does, remember we are only in the first few weeks of spring and many migratory birds haven't yet arrived to these shores. As for hot summers you also have to think about us humans as there are plenty of asthma sufferers who would disagree with you on that point, not to mention all those others who have heart conditions. Extreme heat kills thousands of these people so ideally our temperate climate is ideal for those

oh i know how crap tablets can be lol.

thing is about nature is that so many things are on the slide, numbers on alot of speciese are getting critical and soon in some areas theres not a viable population to recover. its not migrants that are at risk so much as our own native birds and mamals, insects too.

its just the impact of this protracted unseasonal cold is happening nowand isnt a good thing .

[Ian Brown]

There should have been a smiley mushy but I'm on my iPad. Nature will adapt it always does, remember we are only in the first few weeks of spring and many migratory birds haven't yet arrived to these shores. As for hot summers you also have to think about us humans as there are plenty of asthma sufferers who would disagree with you on that point, not to mention all those others who have heart conditions. Extreme heat kills thousands of these people so ideally our temperate climate is ideal for those

Yes, it is 10 years this Summer since that unbearable August heat which killed many people over France in particularly.

The problem with inland heat in the UK is the humidity, you can't sleep at night and it's sticky and unpleasant.

[Skeggy Winter Storm]

Yes, it is 10 years this Summer since that unbearable August heat which killed many people over France in particularly.

The problem with inland heat in the UK is the humidity, you can't sleep at night and it's sticky and unpleasant.

yes i remember that August dont like it when it gets very humid horrible

[mushymanrob]

i am comfortable in heat, heat doesnt hurt me like cold does. i sweat, thats as bad as heat gets. frost though hurts my hands, my skin, my toes. ive worked in minus twelve, my core temp lowered and i felt sick.

[I remember Atlantic 252]

Yes, it is 10 years this Summer since that unbearable August heat which killed many people over France in particularly.

The problem with inland heat in the UK is the humidity, you can't sleep at night and it's sticky and unpleasant.

I hate hot weather as well, so unpleasant, in summer I want around 22-23C,

[Nights King]

I hate hot weather as well, so unpleasant, in summer I want around 22-23C,

22 - 23c I find abit useless........ not warm enough for me to get in a t-shirt and sit around enjoying it. I prefer night time temperatures around 18 - 23c as long as not too humid and 28 - 35c in day is lovely

[I remember Atlantic 252]

22 - 23c I find abit useless........ not warm enough for me to get in a t-shirt and sit around enjoying it. I prefer night time temperatures around 18 - 23c as long as not too humid and 28 - 35c in day is lovely

Take it you have airconditioned home then? 23C way warm enough for t-shirt, especially if sunny

[UV-RAY]

22 - 23c I find abit useless........ not warm enough for me to get in a t-shirt and sit around enjoying it. I prefer night time temperatures around 18 - 23c as long as not too humid and 28 - 35c in day is lovely

Those temps are fine if your retired and can sit in the garden all day and have air conditioning during the nighttime, for anyone else more so those who work indoors they are terrible. Now -25c and your talking, stick an extra jumper on and a wooly hat and gloves and you'll be fine. Mind you I'm a rough and tough Northerner!

[LomondSnowstorm]

I think my signature says it all about how Scots do in the heat (if the quote's still there)...

[Richard2901]

Nothing to enjoy about this month at all. Thoroughly unpleasant and uninteresting.

All there's been here for the past 11 days is grey skies, bone-chilling raw winds and the odd flurry of dandruff type snow. No more than slight frosts with the temperature stuck between 0 and 2C for almost 40 hours up to this morning. There's been 6 hours of sunshine since the 15th. Truly hateful conditions that I would despise in mid-winter never mind late March. I've given up even bothering to check the models for signs of improvement as there just seems to be no end in sight to this easterly nightmare.

There are two types of cold Marches. Cold, snowy classics like 1947, 1958, 1979, 2001 & 2006 and cold, dull depressing abominations like 1964, 1969, 1980, 1984 & 1996. This detestable month belongs firmly in the latter category. Most definitely a month to forget to round off what has been 12 months of complete and utter hell

[jethro]

[Thundery wintry showers]

....the difference is, heat in summer, freezing in winter... seasonal.

this prolonged unseasonal weather is more damaging, especially to wildlife whos breeding season it is, or farmers and growers whos whole year depends upon getting crops and livestock going NOW. just watch the price of lamb rocket, see how many more hillfarmers go under, the paper reckons theres 5000 deaths attributed to this cold (but thats just a daft figure, but no doubt there are alot who would be alive now if we had a normal spring).

ever watched 'storm chasers'? reed timmer knows when to curb his enthusiasm, when people are getting hurt, when property and livelyhoods are being destroyed. id suggest theres a lesson of consideration to the bigger picture to be learned there that over rides personal gratification at something that is of no benefit whatsoever to anyone, even the fans of cold.

...and what would that achieve? so you lived through a cold march... and?.. how has that enriched your life? its a meaningless statistic. meanwhile the money in your pocket isnt going as far as this cold adds to the countries misfortune.

The way I see it is that by feeling duty-bound to make an enemy of a particular type of weather, we aren't helping to soften the blow of those who are suffering, and we aren't making it any less likely to happen- all we're achieving is making ourselves unhappy. I do, though, think that putting lots of positive value judgements on cold weather in the model output thread and talking as if the whole audience wants endless cold weather is a different matter and in those areas some people could do with showing more consideration. The desire for an exceptionally cold March is the cold-weather equivalent of hoping for a record-breaking hot July or August so that we can say that we lived through the hottest month on record (I suspect that many of us would have been able to identify with this in August 1995 and more recently July 2006)..

The 1995 season was practically the worst-case scenario for crops and wildlife (a mild wet winter and a variable spring with some warm sunny spells but also late snowfalls and frosts) but the subsequent summer drought caused more problems overall. Thus, if it is selfish to welcome snow in spring, it must also be selfish to welcome a hot dry sunny summer. (I'm not being cold-biased here, for nowadays I am often as guilty of enjoying unusually hot weather as unusually cold weather).

I am feeling more positive about this coming week's outlook now because the model outputs are suggesting that we might get some sunshine and some snow showers off the North Sea- probably not on the scale of 11th-13th March 2013, but also not the persistently grey drizzly weather that characterised the 13th-25th March 1996.

Edited March 26, 2013 by Thundery wintry showers

[mushymanrob]

The way I see it is that by feeling duty-bound to make an enemy of a particular type of weather, we aren't helping to soften the blow of those who are suffering, and we aren't making it any less likely to happen- all we're achieving is making ourselves unhappy. I do, though, think that putting lots of positive value judgements on cold weather in the model output thread and talking as if the whole audience wants endless cold weather is a different matter and in those areas some people could do with showing more consideration. The desire for an exceptionally cold March is the cold-weather equivalent of hoping for a record-breaking hot July or August so that we can say that we lived through the hottest month on record (I suspect that many of us would have been able to identify with this in August 1995 and more recently July 2006)..

The 1995 season was practically the worst-case scenario for crops and wildlife (a mild wet winter and a variable spring with some warm sunny spells but also late snowfalls and frosts) but the subsequent summer drought caused more problems overall. Thus, if it is selfish to welcome snow in spring, it must also be selfish to welcome a hot dry sunny summer. (I'm not being cold-biased here, for nowadays I am often as guilty of enjoying unusually hot weather as unusually cold weather).

I am feeling more positive about this coming week's outlook now because the model outputs are suggesting that we might get some sunshine and some snow showers off the North Sea- probably not on the scale of 11th-13th March 2013, but also not the persistently grey drizzly weather that characterised the 13th-25th March 1996.

of course you wont be softening the blow for those suffering, but at least you wont be reveling in the weather that does! if your house was in iminant danger of getting flooded by unseasonal rain, would you like to read pages of people hoping that it will rain? its ok wanting to experience extremes as long as it doesnt adversely affect you... personally i dont need extremes, theres plenty of pleasure to be got from 'ordinary' seasonal weather.

i cant remember anybody hoping for a record breaking hot spell, just some nice warm sunshine! a drought would be as damaging to me as this cold is, so im not one for a 76 drought. 1995 though wasnt a disaster for agriculture or wildlife, in fact the august hot spell was perfect harvesting weather, perfect butterfly/insect weather, didnt kill off birds, mamals, etc, summer 1995 was nothing compared to what this spell is because it is breeding season, its the end of winter when everything hibernating is at its lowest, most vunerable, period.

i wouldnt write off cloud yet, with c10 days of an easterly we will be prone to miserable grey dull cloud, ok its not here yet, but id be surprised if we dont get some days like that especially when the wind turns south of east. funny, march 96 was clear, sunny, days and sharp frosts by night, a diurnal range of 14c! i didnt get all that cloud over that period.

[DAVID SNOW]

of course you wont be softening the blow for those suffering, but at least you wont be reveling in the weather that does! if your house was in iminant danger of getting flooded by unseasonal rain, would you like to read pages of people hoping that it will rain? its ok wanting to experience extremes as long as it doesnt adversely affect you... personally i dont need extremes, theres plenty of pleasure to be got from 'ordinary' seasonal weather.

i cant remember anybody hoping for a record breaking hot spell, just some nice warm sunshine! a drought would be as damaging to me as this cold is, so im not one for a 76 drought. 1995 though wasnt a disaster for agriculture or wildlife, in fact the august hot spell was perfect harvesting weather, perfect butterfly/insect weather, didnt kill off birds, mamals, etc, summer 1995 was nothing compared to what this spell is because it is breeding season, its the end of winter when everything hibernating is at its lowest, most vunerable, period.

i wouldnt write off cloud yet, with c10 days of an easterly we will be prone to miserable grey dull cloud, ok its not here yet, but id be surprised if we dont get some days like that especially when the wind turns south of east. funny, march 96 was clear, sunny, days and sharp frosts by night, a diurnal range of 14c! i didnt get all that cloud over that period.

Interesting you mentioned storm chasers a while back,because as you probably know a number of members from NW travel to the USA each spring in the 'hope' of chasing,seeing severe storms.These severe storms that they 'hope' will develop will often be HP super cells,or ones containing hail the size of cricket balls,and severe winds,and if they are 'lucky'they will get to see tornadoes.Are the people who look for,and 'hope'to chase such extreme weather events evil or sadists? Of course they arnt,and none of them takes any pleasure from the resulting death and destruction,Some go back year after year with the same'hopes',fully aware of the consequences,as do many home grown American storm chasers.

PS We would love to go one day.

[frosty ground]

of course you wont be softening the blow for those suffering, but at least you wont be reveling in the weather that does! if your house was in iminant danger of getting flooded by unseasonal rain, would you like to read pages of people hoping that it will rain?

No I would expect them to be doing everything they could in defending their property........

I also wouldn’t expect people on this or any other forum to be whinging at other people commenting on extremes...... By being on such forums you would expect the poster to know and understand that wanting something will not make it happen. And for some watching extreme weather events unfold is of great personal and scientific interest.

Again I also wouldn’t expect people whose homes are in danger of flooding to caravan on these forums about it,,,,, This false outrage at people expressing their enjoyment of cold weather is nothing short of trolling!

Edited March 26, 2013 by frosty ground

[Peejayem]

thing is that the weather effects everybody - not just the fanboy types - so everybody is entitled to their opinion. As for trolling/WUMing, theres plenty of that coming from a few nembers of the cold gang at the moment.

[Thundery wintry showers]

of course you wont be softening the blow for those suffering, but at least you wont be reveling in the weather that does! if your house was in iminant danger of getting flooded by unseasonal rain, would you like to read pages of people hoping that it will rain? its ok wanting to experience extremes as long as it doesnt adversely affect you... personally i dont need extremes, theres plenty of pleasure to be got from 'ordinary' seasonal weather.

I'm thinking partly by analogy with the frustrations I get when, say, most of the UK gets thunderstorms and I miss out. On those occasions, I may feel a bit uncomfortable at others revelling in the fact that my area missed out, but I feel a duty to live and let live in those situations. However, it often gets to me when I hear the public and TV forecasters harping on at me about how lucky I was to escape with a dry settled day, or read dozens of posts in the N-W model output thread saying the same thing- for that really rubs it in.

Of course the frustrations at losing money due to cold weather have rather longer-term implications than a one-off experience of missing thunderstorms, but I sense that the emotions involved are probably similar. It's probably not so much people revelling in the cold weather that is the problem, but more the way some post in the model output thread as if it can be taken for granted that everyone wants it, so you end up reading posts upon posts talking positively about weather that is costing you money. I would prefer it if the model thread wasn't like that, but it often gets like that via popular demand and while the mods and hosts can limit the extent to which it happens to some degree, it's proved impossible to eliminate it, and hence the provision of alternative threads.

Another point that I'm getting at with this is that while the desire for dramatic/extreme weather can annoy those who don't want it, the same can also happen vice-versa. I can imagine Scottish ski resort operators getting similarly frustrated, for example, at TV forecasters and the general public talking apologetically about snow and talking hopefully about gale-force south-westerlies and persistent rain, where the south-westerlies would cost them a lot of money.

Edited March 26, 2013 by Thundery wintry showers

[frosty ground]

thing is that the weather effects everybody - not just the fanboy types - so everybody is entitled to their opinion. As for trolling/WUMing, theres plenty of that coming from a few nembers of the cold gang at the moment.

Divide and conquer. ... why do people feel the need to say cold side mild side. .... are we not fans of weather In general.

[AWD]

Divide and conquer. ... why do people feel the need to say cold side mild side. .... are we not fans of weather In general.

I like cold in winter and mild in Spring/Autumn and Warm in Summer. What side am I on? :p

Edited March 26, 2013 by AWD