The changing daylight hours thread

[damianslaw]

Get ready for the early sunset this evening, always comes as a shock.. if indeed anyone gets to see the sun! Will be a shift descent into dusk around half 4.. don't be caught out!

[Summer8906]

1 hour ago, damianslaw said:

Get ready for the early sunset this evening, always comes as a shock.. if indeed anyone gets to see the sun! Will be a shift descent into dusk around half 4.. don't be caught out!

Keeping to BST for today, as I said above - so as far as I'm concerned it's 2pm right now.

Difficult during the week when you have commitments, but on a Sunday when you don't, it staves off the gloom for one more day...

[Summer8906]

On 20/10/2021 at 10:23, Nick L said:

If we do stick with BST all year round, I look forward to those supporting it enjoying the wind and rain at 6pm in November but are happy to go outside because it's still light. It's a non-starter with little to no net benefit.

And no, that trial from the 1960s is not evidence to the contrary!

Except on those days when it is dry in November (and granted it's not exactly the most settled of all months, but it is dry sometimes) it would feel a lot, lot less depressing if it were still light between 5 and 6pm, or at the end of the month, between 4 and 5pm.

November _can_ produce spectacular autumn colours which you can enjoy when it's not raining. Retaining the extra hour of late afternoon/early evening daylight would permit us to enjoy them at leisure rather than rush out somewhere after lunch with a constant eye on the clock. Instead we're stuck in the house after 5pm, with hours, and hours, of darkness to put up with before bedtime.

I would say that for a combination of wet winter climate and early sunsets, the UK is probably the worst place to be in Europe and North America, aside from extreme northern locations such as Iceland. Other European or North American countries either have a drier winter climate (e.g. Sweden, Canada), later sunsets (Ireland and the Netherlands), or both (France, Spain, USA...)

 

Edited October 31, 2021 by Summer8906

[mb018538]

Well folks - we're in the depths of darkness now. Dark by 4:30pm, and the dark evenings are now here to stay for the next 3-4 months. Don't notice much change until we're most of the way through January now. I'd best buckle up and ride it out until I can start looking forward to the spring again.

Only 49 days until we start getting lighter again...

Edited November 2, 2021 by mb018538

[ManiaMuse]

On 02/11/2021 at 08:49, mb018538 said:

Well folks - we're in the depths of darkness now. Dark by 4:30pm, and the dark evenings are now here to stay for the next 3-4 months. Don't notice much change until we're most of the way through January now. I'd best buckle up and ride it out until I can start looking forward to the spring again.

Only 49 days until we start getting lighter again...

And only about 39 days until evening light reverses direction.

[damianslaw]

We've benefitted from quite clear skies at dusk so far since clocks gone back, except Halloween. Our resolve about to be  tested with onslaught of overcast dusks which will mean rapid earlier descents into darkness! The joy of November!.. No sun, no fun, November!

[Wynn D Woo]

Urghh I hate GMT, dark in the office now even with the clear skies...

[damianslaw]

10 minutes ago, Wynn D Woo said:

Urghh I hate GMT, dark in the office now even with the clear skies...

Only 6 weeks before we bottom out...

[markyo]

By far the best time of year, the Autumn retreat to a cosy night in, curtains closed, fire on, perfect. Love it.

[Seasonal Trim]

Best time of the year. Atmospheric, peaceful and cosy. Just need some fog or even snow and it would be perfect!

[Sunny76]

Mince pies, Christmas pudding and Christmas Turkey aside…….:

 

Roll on March 1st 2022 please.

[Frost HoIIow]

I don't mind the darkness at all as at least it does get light for a few hours during the day in December for outdoor activities if it's dry, the UK is a long way north, well I'd class anywhere above 45N as this because you are closer to the pole than the equator, which would include a big chunk of France. But it could be worse like living above the Arctic circle. No light at all 24/7 with the polar night!

Edited November 4, 2021 by Frost HoIIow

[cheeky_monkey]

1 hour ago, Seasonal Trim said:

Best time of the year. Atmospheric, peaceful and cosy. Just need some fog or even snow and it would be perfect!

worst time of the year you mean..dark morning for too long... getting colder by the day..im fed up of winter already and its not really started yet.

[Weather Enthusiast91]

I am personally loving these long dark evenings, and am looking forward to seeing what winter has in store for us. 

Perhaps if our climate was a little more continental then winter wouldn't get such a bad rap; but still, each season has its pros and cons in my opinion.

 

Edited November 4, 2021 by Weather Enthusiast91

[damianslaw]

55 minutes ago, Weather Enthusiast91 said:

I am personally loving these long dark evenings, and am looking forward to seeing what winter has in store for us. 

Perhaps if our climate was a little more continental then winter wouldn't get such a bad rap; but still, each season has its pros and cons in my opinion.

 

The long dark nights wane on you once Christmas it out the way I feel. The first half of January is particularly depressing especially if it is a rain overcast fest. 

Mind much of November and December is equally dismal just made bearable thanks to the run up to Christmas. 

[Summer8906]

The rate of darkening of the evenings is noticeably slowing, a reminder that it's now less than four weeks until the darkest day. In fact, I think we have only around five more minutes to lose; earliest sunset here is pretty much exactly 16:00. Mornings are getting darker though still. We are now in the (short) period of the year when I reluctantly see the need for winter time.

Interestingly, sunset is now earlier than the WHOLE of the month of January. Though it takes time for SAD symptoms to relieve: if late January is sunny, they can start dissipating as early as January 21 (when sunset is the right side of 16:30 again) but if it's dull, it can be as late as mid-February.

For that reason I strongly value sunnier-than-average second halves of winter. I remember my mood lifting strongly around Jan 25 2008, when the very sunny late winter of that year began following a pretty bad (mild, dull, wet) midwinter period. Likewise, I found winter 18/19 a very soft-touch one: December was pretty dire but I remember both Jan and Feb brighter than normal. 11/12 was another soft-touch one but months like Feb 2010 and Feb 2020 were both dire: one was cold and the other very mild, but both were unusually dull and wet, with SAD symptoms extending though pretty much all the month. Thankfully these are a rarity.

Edited November 27, 2021 by Summer8906

[hillbilly]

3 hours ago, Summer8906 said:

The rate of darkening of the evenings is noticeably slowing, a reminder that it's now less than four weeks until the darkest day. In fact, I think we have only around five more minutes to lose; earliest sunset here is pretty much exactly 16:00. Mornings are getting darker though still. We are now in the (short) period of the year when I reluctantly see the need for winter time.

Interestingly, sunset is now earlier than the WHOLE of the month of January. Though it takes time for SAD symptoms to relieve: if late January is sunny, they can start dissipating as early as January 21 (when sunset is the right side of 16:30 again) but if it's dull, it can be as late as mid-February.

For that reason I strongly value sunnier-than-average second halves of winter. I remember my mood lifting strongly around Jan 25 2008, when the very sunny late winter of that year began following a pretty bad (mild, dull, wet) midwinter period. Likewise, I found winter 18/19 a very soft-touch one: December was pretty dire but I remember both Jan and Feb brighter than normal. 11/12 was another soft-touch one but months like Feb 2010 and Feb 2020 were both dire: one was cold and the other very mild, but both were unusually dull and wet, with SAD symptoms extending though pretty much all the month. Thankfully these are a rarity.

You wont have liked it in the winter 1992/1993 then.Only  one month in the last 30 years has been Duller than January 1993  and you have to go back 100 years to find a duller month than December 1992.

[hillbilly]

On 04/11/2021 at 23:25, damianslaw said:

The long dark nights wane on you once Christmas it out the way I feel. The first half of January is particularly depressing especially if it is a rain overcast fest. 

Mind much of November and December is equally dismal just made bearable thanks to the run up to Christmas. 

I too suffer a little 'SAD' but mine is the end of summer and mainly November and December.I actually like January and February ,it is counting down to summer whereas before Christmas Summer is a long way to go.

[Summer8906]

4 hours ago, hillbilly said:

You wont have liked it in the winter 1992/1993 then.Only  one month in the last 30 years has been Duller than January 1993  and you have to go back 100 years to find a duller month than December 1992.

I do remember that one and strangely I don't recall it being a particularly dull one, but maybe it depends on where in the country you were. January had a fair amount of stormy weather but pressure wasn't so low in the far south - there was a very tight N-S gradient. Indeed, late winter in particular seemed sunny, with a change from stormy to dry and settled occurring around Jan 25th so a very good example of the benefits a fine late winter can bring. I clearly recall the evenings drawing out during Feb 1993 and a strong sense of winter in decline. There was also a notable sunny, frosty spell for the last two weeks or so of the year. I think the first half of December had a lot of Tm and was consequently pretty dull, but not the winter as a whole.

Edited November 27, 2021 by Summer8906

[hillbilly]

30 minutes ago, Summer8906 said:

I do remember that one and strangely I don't recall it being a particularly dull one, but maybe it depends on where in the country you were. January had a fair amount of stormy weather but pressure wasn't so low in the far south - there was a very tight N-S gradient. Indeed, late winter in particular seemed sunny, with a change from stormy to dry and settled occurring around Jan 25th so a very good example of the benefits a fine late winter can bring. I clearly recall the evenings drawing out during Feb 1993 and a strong sense of winter in decline. There was also a notable sunny, frosty spell for the last two weeks or so of the year. I think the first half of December had a lot of Tm and was consequently pretty dull, but not the winter as a whole.

Yes a bit different in the south,both Oxford and Heathrow list almost 90 hours for December and January,whereas Bradford lists just 25 hrs.Here and certainly where i used to live on the hilltops with more mist and low cloud it was almost certainly less than that.I seem to recall the period around christmas very cold,working on the farm the land was good for travelling with the muckspreader ,frozen instead of being bogged down but lots of freezing mist and cloud around.

[damianslaw]

Yes not long to go until we 'bottom' out so to speak. 11 December marks the point when we reach the lowest level of light in the evening, from then on sunset stays static and starts to become later before the 21st unusually, but sunrise continues to be later until 29 December it then stays static for a week, and slowly climbs up. I don't mind this time of year so much when we have bright sunny days such as today, dusk sets in later.. and the sunshine gives you a mood booster. Polar air is always welcome in this respect at this time of year. The dreaded SW airstream not so, it means dull grey leaden skies and never fully getting light, dusk sets in quickly at half 3 and we are plunged into darkness. Thankfully the outlook suggest we may be spared many such days in the week ahead at least, with a fair amount of polar air in the mix.

[Summer8906]

23 hours ago, hillbilly said:

Yes a bit different in the south,both Oxford and Heathrow list almost 90 hours for December and January,

So an average of about (just under) 3hr/day for both stations - not bad when the maximum possible duration of daylight in December is 8 hours and January, perhaps 9 hours at the end of the month (which has sunsets almost an hour later than now but mornings still dark). I'd suspect therefore that these stations were unusually sunny, particularly in December. The cold, frosty and sunny final part of the month contributed significantly to this I suspect as early December was indeed dull.

[Summer8906]

22 hours ago, damianslaw said:

Yes not long to go until we 'bottom' out so to speak. 11 December marks the point when we reach the lowest level of light in the evening, from then on sunset stays static and starts to become later before the 21st unusually, but sunrise continues to be later until 29 December it then stays static for a week, and slowly climbs up. I don't mind this time of year so much when we have bright sunny days such as today, dusk sets in later.. and the sunshine gives you a mood booster. Polar air is always welcome in this respect at this time of year. The dreaded SW airstream not so, it means dull grey leaden skies and never fully getting light, dusk sets in quickly at half 3 and we are plunged into darkness. Thankfully the outlook suggest we may be spared many such days in the week ahead at least, with a fair amount of polar air in the mix.

Yes, Tm does significantly increase dullness at this time of year. Here, winter 19/20 seemed to have an awful lot of Tm and consequently was quite a horror show.

Never gets dark before 4 here other than exceptional 'day darkness' circumstances (one such occurrence occurred early in December 2009 and produced near-darkness late in the lunch period, so much so that it resembled an eclipse), though the presence or absence of stratus in the mid-afternoon can make difference between bright and oppressively dull and gloomy.

Edited November 28, 2021 by Summer8906

[damianslaw]

Today one of those dark days before Christmas. Hasn't been light all day.. now going dark. Such days are so short...

[ManiaMuse]

Only another 4 minutes of evening light to lose here. Think the 11th is the point here where the sunset time starts to reverse direction.

Still a long way before the change in daylight hours start to become noticeable and mornings keep getting darker until the end of December but I always tick it off as the first milestone towards summer.