Atlantic Storm #4 Desmond

[weatherobsuk]

Yep that looks like the Red Tarn Beck from Glenridding up towards the lower slopes of Catstyecam, much out the beck in that spate would be due to the Red Tarn Lake up on the higher elevation overflowing.

[Polar Maritime]

 

[BornFromTheVoid]

 

Edited December 7, 2015 by BornFromTheVoid

[Spikecollie]

On a nice note regarding "Desmond", I used the Malham Tarn waterfall reappearance with my English students tonight while discussing climate change and related issues. They were fascinated. I also showed them the less light hearted pictures of the flooding and explained the rainfall totals etc. 

[Liam J]

Some images from Glenridding which remains cut off with no water, mobile signal or landlines. The army are taking in supplies to community.

Some idiots ignoring the road closed signs on the A591.

[Mountain Snow]

Managed to get into Glenridding today to check on clients' properties. Big cleanup happening, tons of rock has come out of the beck, strewn everywhere. Lads working on a hydro scheme in Hartsop brought the heavy plant down to clear the roads and dredge the beck. Also a nasty landslide in Patterdale which someone had a narrow escape from. 

[matty40s]

3 hours ago, *Sub*Zero* said:

 

 

Some idiots ignoring the road closed signs on the A591.

The Audi granted is a complete tool and plonker.

The other car was abandoned there on Saturday and is on the helicopter footage between two brook stone slides.

Edited December 8, 2015 by matty40s

[Mokidugway]

Lol I you think that's scary drive the Shafer trail in Utah with a 1000 ft + drop on one side ,that's a piece of cake !!

[matty40s]

11 minutes ago, Mokidugway said:

Lol I you think that's scary drive the Shafer trail in Utah with a 1000 ft + drop on one side ,that's a piece of cake !!

I don't think its scary, but does the driver know that the road isn't going to collapse further.

Also, now the registration is in the public domain, do you not think the Police will be paying a visit.......

[Mokidugway]

If the road was closed he shouldn't be there ,have taken JCBs over washouts like that after a quick visual inspection !!

[keithlucky]

On 05/12/2015 at 11:35 PM, knocker said:

More nonsense lake district flooding of 1897 and and again in 1898 were worse ,surface irrigation by modern agriculture methods, makes the flooding situation far worse. http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/learning/library/archive-hidden-treasures/british-rainfall

 

Edited December 8, 2015 by keithlucky

[keithlucky]

9 minutes ago, keithlucky said:

 

Excellent article on flood prevention from the Guardian www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/13/flooding-public-spending-britain-europe-policies-homes

[mud_error]

 

25 minutes ago, keithlucky said:

More nonsense lake district flooding of 1897 and and again in 1898 were worse ,surface irrigation by modern agriculture methods, makes the flooding situation far worse. http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/learning/library/archive-hidden-treasures/british-rainfall

Worse how? Where in the attached document are you looking? I'd be interested if you think the 341mm exceeded long ago. Modern agriculture not much to do with anything, unless you count sheep grazing the fells as modern.

[knocker]

43 minutes ago, keithlucky said:

More nonsense lake district flooding of 1897 and and again in 1898 were worse ,surface irrigation by modern agriculture methods, makes the flooding situation far worse. http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/learning/library/archive-hidden-treasures/british-rainfall

Sorry Keith I'm not quite sure what you are saying is nonsense, As you quoted John Curtin's tweet vis the rainfall at Honister I assume it's that?

[The PIT]

Niave post by Mud_error. Modern practices have had effect on how water drains of hills.

[Mountain Snow]

2 hours ago, The PIT said:

Niave post by Mud_error. Modern practices have had effect on how water drains of hills.

Do elaborate, we've been draining fields and peat beds and straightening watercourses for centuries. Now slowly going back to allow a more natural flow on rivers which should help slow flood waters but not allowing dredging of riverbeds is causing problems. We've hemmed in our rivers so much that rock and sediment cannot escape naturally so we must remove it ourselves to reduce flooding. 

[Evening thunder]

12 hours ago, keithlucky said:

 

Bit of an odd post really if you're suggesting official rain gauge recordings are 'more nonsense'. The page you like to is monthly and yearly totals whereas this fell in 24 hours.

1 hour ago, Mountain Snow said:

Do elaborate, we've been draining fields and peat beds and straightening watercourses for centuries. Now slowly going back to allow a more natural flow on rivers which should help slow flood waters but not allowing dredging of riverbeds is causing problems. We've hemmed in our rivers so much that rock and sediment cannot escape naturally so we must remove it ourselves to reduce flooding. 

Yes land use greatly affects run off and flood magnitudes, although as usual it is difficult untangling the magnitude of this from all the other factors involved and accuracy of gauging stations. This probably relates more to areas of more intensive agriculture though, not sure how much has changed in the fells recently (though more intense grazing (if occurring) can compact the ground). Yes the Somerset Levels are a classic example where our previous large scale alterations require us to dredge the rivers there, although in many situations (probably most places affected recently) it doesn't help much and can make things worse with flooding downstream but also increased erosion around the dredge site which can propagate, often upstream.

 

[keithlucky]

5 hours ago, Evening thunder said:

Bit of an odd post really if you're suggesting official rain gauge recordings are 'more nonsense'. The page you like to is monthly and yearly totals whereas this fell in 24 hours.

Yes land use greatly affects run off and flood magnitudes, although as usual it is difficult untangling the magnitude of this from all the other factors involved and accuracy of gauging stations. This probably relates more to areas of more intensive agriculture though, not sure how much has changed in the fells recently (though more intense grazing (if occurring) can compact the ground). Yes the Somerset Levels are a classic example where our previous large scale alterations require us to dredge the rivers there, although in many situations (probably most places affected recently) it doesn't help much and can make things worse with flooding downstream but also increased erosion around the dredge site which can propagate, often upstream.

 

Plenty of studies over the years Extract from watkins study This study has demonstrated the value of historical sources in supplementing data derived from scientific techniques such as lichenometry and radiocarbon dating. For Cumbria it was possible to identify 34 extreme floods which affected upland catchments since AD1600. The evidence supports the information derived from geomorphological approaches indicating that there have been marked changes in the frequency of such floods in the last 400 years, but that the frequency of such floods in the last three decades is not unusual and has fallen markedly from the mid-twentieth century. The occurrence of extreme flood events in upland areas appears to be linked closely with negative NAO values. http://www.mangeogsoc.org.uk/pdfs/watkins_whyte.pdf

[Mountain Snow]

6 hours ago, Evening thunder said:

Bit of an odd post really if you're suggesting official rain gauge recordings are 'more nonsense'. The page you like to is monthly and yearly totals whereas this fell in 24 hours.

Yes land use greatly affects run off and flood magnitudes, although as usual it is difficult untangling the magnitude of this from all the other factors involved and accuracy of gauging stations. This probably relates more to areas of more intensive agriculture though, not sure how much has changed in the fells recently (though more intense grazing (if occurring) can compact the ground). Yes the Somerset Levels are a classic example where our previous large scale alterations require us to dredge the rivers there, although in many situations (probably most places affected recently) it doesn't help much and can make things worse with flooding downstream but also increased erosion around the dredge site which can propagate, often upstream.

 

Yes allowing upland watercourses to follow a more natural state will slow flood waters but further downstream, unfortunately, we have to maintain them as we always have since we've built so close to rivers. But there isn't much anyone can do when we have these kind of rainfall events. 

Here's Pooley bridge today, the water has dropped some 4 or 5 ft since its peak. Hard to comprehend the weight of water that was pushing against it.

[mud_error]

moutainsnow, I assume you have livestock and farm. I know this may be off topic, but I feel your pain. I trust you are now getting access to the support you need. 

My post earlier was mainly just trying to understand the linked data source, does anyone have any data suggesting higher rainfall past events (pre current MO modern records). If there is, it would really provide challenge to these 'one in x years' event statements that always seem bold to me.

[The PIT]

You've got to remember once in x years is a probability. So if I say it's a one in two hundred years it doesn't mean you can't have four similar events in the next year.  

[Summer Sun]

Flooding in Glenridding

http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/more-floods-as-glenridding-river-overtops-1.1231577

 

Edited December 9, 2015 by Summer Sun

[Liam J]

Dear oh dear....

https://twitter.com/lakelandphotos/status/674698243310268416

Edited December 9, 2015 by *Sub*Zero*

[Liam J]

Sad scenes again tonight, and looking at the model output there isn't any lengthy dry spells with yet more rain to come... 

 

[nalos]

Thank you for your information.

 

 

 

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