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Model output discussion - 21st Jan Onwards


Paul

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Posted
  • Location: Manchester Deansgate.
  • Weather Preferences: Heavy disruptive snowfall.
  • Location: Manchester Deansgate.

I just wonder what the EC32 is suggesting tonight.

 

EDIT : The JMA strat 10mb chart is a stonker but then so have many 240's lately only for the warming to fade before any technical SSW comes close.

Edited by feb1991blizzard
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Posted
  • Location: Chesterfield, Derbyshire 200m asl
  • Location: Chesterfield, Derbyshire 200m asl

EUROPE_PRMSL_240.thumb.jpg.14f0c1862971f    ECM at  t240. Thats what i call interesting weather. If that verified we would have the following  2 or 3 days in Scotland very wintry. Without the strong jet stream that could easily  become special nationwide. GFS in agreement with this chart at t240. I will certainly take that

EUROPE_PRMSL_HGT500_240.thumb.jpg.c23555

 

 

Edited by Derbyshire Snow
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Posted
  • Location: Castle Black, the Wall, the North
  • Weather Preferences: Spanish Plumes, Blizzards, Severe Frosts :-)
  • Location: Castle Black, the Wall, the North
15 minutes ago, blizzard81 said:

most people on here want a little more than some poxy drab north westerly airflow (latest meto update) 

Better than a poxy mushy swly / sly blowtorch....give me a north westerly veering northerly through Feb and I will be very happy!....The Gfs 18z shows colder air spreading south and lasting until later next week, I think there is enough time left for something better to develop but that's the optimist in me!:D:cold:

h850t850eu.png

h850t850eu (1).png

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Posted
  • Location: Tullynessle/Westhill
  • Weather Preferences: Cold and snowy or warm and dry
  • Location: Tullynessle/Westhill
11 minutes ago, Derbyshire Snow said:

I dont know what happened to my last post, but here goes again.

This latest run from the GFS shows the atlantic well in charge with a strong jet stream flowing throughout and unfortunately at the end of the run the jet trends back north. We do once again have some heights developing around and over Greenland mid run but not strong enough. AO and particularily NAO still positive in the next 7 to 10 days.

Its good to see the Euro high displaced but is now showing late  in the run, to have transferred south/southwest of the UK. Still not a good position

However some Northern areas early next week according to most models , particularly on the hills, should get some snow during the passing of polar maritime air.

That's a 'glass half empty' post and a half. 

gfsnh-0-384.png?18?18

If, and it's a massively huge 'if' , the GFS is correct at "the end of the run", we've still got the bulk of the tropospheric PV to our NE and the "euro high" is off to the west of Portugal. I'm not saying it's fantastic but it's far better than we've had for most of this winter so far. 

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Posted
  • Location: Swansea South West Wales
  • Weather Preferences: Cold and Snow in winter Warm Sunny Summer
  • Location: Swansea South West Wales

The next couple of weeks will define the rest of the winter early spring period I feel, and it will be led by a ssw anomaly that will squeeze the life out of the ao which will cause the PV to loose its grip over Greenland/eastern Canada. This will then send heights poleward maybe not all the way but enough to force the air across Western Europe to come from a pm/am and will lock in for a month. This will wax and Wane from time to time in terms of nw/w sometime direct n'erly nne but the theme will be one of colder than average. I'm taking a punt and going for a snowy Easter this year for the whole of the U.K. At some point. This is what I feel the met are hinting at but thought I'd put my take on it:D

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Posted
  • Location: Surrey and SW France.
  • Location: Surrey and SW France.

The extended ECM means now getting close to the middle of February period - day 14 and 15 Z500 charts on a localised view.

ec-ens_nat_gh500mean_gh500std_thk500mean   ec-ens_nat_gh500mean_gh500std_thk500mean  850 temps ec-ens_millikort_mslpmean_t850mean_t850s

That looks emphatically trough dominated and with the 850 temps around -5 to -6 on the area that can be viewed, it looks to be a marked change as per the Met office updates.

The mean charts, all winter have shown the Euro ridge at the extended time frame so we can maybe now look forward to something a bit different.

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Posted
  • Location: Manchester Deansgate.
  • Weather Preferences: Heavy disruptive snowfall.
  • Location: Manchester Deansgate.
5 minutes ago, fergieweather said:

Essentially as per GloSea5: ie +ve MSLP anomalies building central N Atlantic (and perhaps Greenland) with -ve anomaly N/NE of UK into mid-month; temp anomalies thus trending neutral or -ve (more pronounced -ve signal in northern UK, inevitably in that regime); mean flow NW-N'ly. By tail-end of Feb the height/MSLP anomaly shifts E to lie generally more S of UK with resumption of broadly W'ly regime and upturn in temp anomaly. The mean fields of course mask typical spread evident in inspection of stamps and minority solutions (a few of which would be notably colder), but clear form horse at present remains notion of MSLP rises to W (& perhaps NW) and a phase of colder NW-N'lies around mid-month, as recently billed in UKMO outlooks.

Thanks Ian.

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Posted
  • Location: Chesterfield, Derbyshire 200m asl
  • Location: Chesterfield, Derbyshire 200m asl
35 minutes ago, Ravelin said:

That's a 'glass half empty' post and a half. 

gfsnh-0-384.png?18?18

If, and it's a massively huge 'if' , the GFS is correct at "the end of the run", we've still got the bulk of the tropospheric PV to our NE and the "euro high" is off to the west of Portugal. I'm not saying it's fantastic but it's far better than we've had for most of this winter so far. 

I do agree that the high is marginally better to the south west of us than in Europe. Unfortunately we have a strong jet steam which is steering lows over the top of this high. If we had a weaker jet stream the high positioned there would be then ok as it could link up to a ridge from Greenlnd  and lead to  a more persistent cold north westerly with air more likely to be from the north 

Edited by Derbyshire Snow
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Posted
  • Location: Swansea South West Wales
  • Weather Preferences: Cold and Snow in winter Warm Sunny Summer
  • Location: Swansea South West Wales
4 minutes ago, fergieweather said:

Essentially as per GloSea5: ie +ve MSLP anomalies building central N Atlantic (and perhaps Greenland) with -ve anomaly N/NE of UK into mid-month; temp anomalies thus trending neutral or -ve (more pronounced -ve signal in northern UK, inevitably in that regime); mean flow NW-N'ly. By tail-end of Feb the height/MSLP anomaly shifts E to lie generally more S of UK with resumption of broadly W'ly regime and upturn in temp anomaly. The mean fields of course mask typical spread evident in inspection of stamps and minority solutions (a minority of which would be notably colder), but clear form horse at present remains notion of MSLP rises to W (& perhaps NW) and a phase of colder NW-N'lies around mid-month, as recently billed in UKMO outlooks.

Something similar to what I posted above then. Thanks Ian.  Easter is earlier this year I wonder what the odds are on a white Easter?? It's normally a better bet than a white Christmas. Might pop to the bookies tomorrow worth a pound lol.

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Posted
  • Location: Rotherhithe, 5.8M ASL
  • Location: Rotherhithe, 5.8M ASL
7 minutes ago, Ravelin said:

That's a 'glass half empty' post and a half. 

gfsnh-0-384.png?18?18

If, and it's a massively huge 'if' , the GFS is correct at "the end of the run", we've still got the bulk of the tropospheric PV to our NE and the "euro high" is off to the west of Portugal. I'm not saying it's fantastic but it's far better than we've had for most of this winter so far. 

Panic would ensue if it ended up the reality, the latter part of the run shows the polar vortex regathering angriness the fact of the matter it is not awful, but that gives me no inclination for deep cold for UK. What we all well most sought for till approaching months end. Heights remain relatively high to the south with Azores high pushing into Western Europe. I think it is odds on Scotland, N Ireland, far north of England will do well over the next few weeks, however I await to see whether this will be more than just a northern affair....

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Posted
  • Location: Reigate Hill
  • Weather Preferences: Anything
  • Location: Reigate Hill

As some are saying, subtle changes within the GFS. No sign of anything blocked, so AAM spikes may have been overridden by other background signals (ENSO).  However the general theme of a cooler airflow looks like gaining pace in February. Probably just cold rain for most south of Birmingham (average T850s) but the usual suspects will get their average Feb snowfall.

So it remains a zonal flow but a colder variety. The JMA week 2 (just released) highlights this: 56aaf6cf3afb8_Y201601.D2712(1).thumb.pngWeek 3-4:Y201601.D2712.thumb.png.3330988f1db977e7

Similar week 3-4 anomaly. Little sign of any change in the pattern with heights to the south, a zonal flow but the UK within a trough. Just run of the mill winter fare. I have the opinion that no major SSW will happen by the end of February if at all so we have to rely on a favourable ENSO pattern. The MJO may not be much help for a few weeks so any blocking will be late Feb if at all based on current output. CFS week 3 and 4 has churned out relentless anomaly forecasts for this long term pattern, and they have been very solid. Again no change:

wk3.wk4_20160127.z500.thumb.gif.e9fc07e6

The signs were there last week and despite ECM overdoing heights as usual, giving false hope, GFS has been ultra consistent and ECM now in line. So week 2-3 looks like the Nino signal will dominate, with the UK in the cooler flow rather than the mild Dec warmth. But as for anything cold or any sustained wintry weather, for the majority (south of Birmingham) little hope in the medium term.

 

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Posted
  • Location: Manchester
  • Weather Preferences: Sunny and warm in the Summer, cold and snowy in the winter, simples!
  • Location: Manchester

I think we can sum the output up in one word, "stormy"

J6-21.GIF?29-0J84-21.GIF?29-0gfs-0-186.png?0

Looks like there could be some fairly potent but short lived NW/N outbreaks right out into FI giving wintry showers to the usual suspects.

Other than some wintry interest over the next 24h or so and then perhaps again around day 5, the main interest for me comes around day 9 where a deepening depression looks set to affect the UK and drive low pressure into Europe. The aftermath of that should hold some interest I think with low pressure running NW/SE unless the Azores high ridges back in as a spoiler.

Certainly cold zonal spell for 2nd week of Feb is starting to show up on the ensembles.

graphe3_1000_255_52___.gif

 

Back to the here and now, it looks like Scotland is going to get a pasting and perhaps the far North of England if Euro4 is on the right track

http://expert-images.weatheronline.co.uk/daten/proficharts/en/euro4/2016/01/29/basis00/ukuk/prty/16013006_2900.gif

http://expert-images.weatheronline.co.uk/daten/proficharts/en/euro4/2016/01/29/basis00/ukuk/weas/16013100_2900.gif

Edited by Mucka
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Posted
  • Location: Cambridge, UK
  • Weather Preferences: Summer > Spring > Winter > Autumn :-)
  • Location: Cambridge, UK

Great....we've managed to trade mild and zonal for cold and zonal instead! Maybe a bit of wintry stuff further north through the middle of next week, but down south it looks like 5-6c, cold wet and windy. Eurgh!

Kudos to GFS really, I think it's probably handled this better than the other big two. UKMO last night had a 1030mb high moving in at 14 hours, that's been well and truly blasted today.

Rmgfs144sum.gif

Going by this, some worryingly high rainfall amounts in the 6 day timeframe yet again. The southern and eastern areas can probably manage with a soaking this time as it's not been overly wet down here, but I can see 60-75mm forecast there again for Cumbria and the border regions of Scotland. We could be seeing December scenes all over again soon....

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Posted
  • Location: Tyrone
  • Location: Tyrone
2 hours ago, Mucka said:

I think we can sum the output up in one word, "stormy"

J6-21.GIF?29-0J84-21.GIF?29-0gfs-0-186.png?0

Looks like there could be some fairly potent but short lived NW/N outbreaks right out into FI giving wintry showers to the usual suspects.

Other than some wintry interest over the next 24h or so and then perhaps again around day 5, the main interest for me comes around day 9 where a deepening depression looks set to affect the UK and drive low pressure into Europe. The aftermath of that should hold some interest I think with low pressure running NW/SE unless the Azores high ridges back in as a spoiler.

Certainly cold zonal spell for 2nd week of Feb is starting to show up on the ensembles.

graphe3_1000_255_52___.gif

 

Back to the here and now, it looks like Scotland is going to get a pasting and perhaps the far North of England if Euro4 is on the right track

http://expert-images.weatheronline.co.uk/daten/proficharts/en/euro4/2016/01/29/basis00/ukuk/prty/16013006_2900.gif

http://expert-images.weatheronline.co.uk/daten/proficharts/en/euro4/2016/01/29/basis00/ukuk/weas/16013100_2900.gif

Yes Northern Ireland looks good for a pasting also.:cold:

Edited by booferking
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Posted
  • Location: Nuneaton,Warks. 128m asl
  • Weather Preferences: Snow then clear and frosty.
  • Location: Nuneaton,Warks. 128m asl

We have removed some banter/moan posts.

Please remember the proper thread for those,model discussion only in here.

Ta.☺

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Posted
  • Location: portsmouth uk
  • Weather Preferences: extremes
  • Location: portsmouth uk

Upper t850 temps across most of the models are not very supportive of anything exceptional here in the south the south west and south east very little in the way of blocking showing.

t850 for the southern half of the U.K. Really needs to be at or around -6 snow for southern areas from a nw flow is rare arctic source air is much better but even this does not always favour this unless we get a low front sweeping south.

most certainly going to be wintry next week and the weekend so Midlands north Northern Ireland Scotland will do well winter is arriving here for sure but residual pv over Canada and Azores high still a force to be reckoned with along the southern half of the U.K.

also other areas have the warm sector issues to think about although further north the better.

still debatable whether winter will arrive in the south southeast and southwest.

we have a split vortex can the strat warming beef up a bit to allow blocking I'm not overly enthusiastic about residual vortex and the strength of the vortex along with a powerful jet.

2010 was so different weak vortex blocking rampant 

so I'm not overly optimistic 

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Posted
  • Location: Redhill, Surrey
  • Weather Preferences: Southerly tracking LPs, heavy snow. Also 25c and calm
  • Location: Redhill, Surrey

06z looks like more cold air involved. Lots of tweaking to come me thinks. 

 

BFTP

Edited by BLAST FROM THE PAST
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Posted
  • Location: Castle Black, the Wall, the North
  • Weather Preferences: Spanish Plumes, Blizzards, Severe Frosts :-)
  • Location: Castle Black, the Wall, the North

The Gfs 6z saves the best until last with a colder and more blocked pattern...and some snow too!:D

h850t850eu.png

h850t850eu (1).png

prectypeuktopo.png

ukmintemp.png

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Posted
  • Location: Tullynessle/Westhill
  • Weather Preferences: Cold and snowy or warm and dry
  • Location: Tullynessle/Westhill

Way out in FI as usual but GFS 06Z starting to hint at what MetO have been suggesting for mid Feb?

gfsnh-0-288.png?6

gfsnh-0-336.png?6

In the more reliable, is GFS also now making more of the little 'trigger low'  to the NW of Ireand Tue onwards?

gfsnh-0-102.png?6

gfsnh-0-120.png?6

Other lows trying to slide SE afterwards but not quite making it.

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