COVID-19 Pandemic

[CheesepuffScott]

My cousin tells me that at his secondary school, everyone is being urged to take all books / work home. Whether this is just precautionary measures or part of contigency in preparation for a scheduled closure (next week?). Who knows, but I cannot see the schools remaining open until Easter break despite what Gov. stated yesterday...

[Summer Sun]

1st death reported in Scotland

[kold weather]

1 minute ago, Summer Sun said:

1st death reported in Scotland

Very tragic, takes the UK total of deaths upto 11.

Sadly, won't be the last Scotland has either, I just hope we don't have to put too many 0s behind it...

 

[Summer Sun]

 

[emax]

8 minutes ago, northwestsnow said:

I saw that too ...

I think it is really important we are careful what we believe from unofficial 'sources' ...

 

Exactly. It may be true of course, but social media is rife with this sort of thing. Think how many retweets that person will have had now? A tweet like that will go round the world in no time. And as has been mentioned, we dont know the mitigating circumstances involved. It could well have just been a single occurrence, and the person taken off the ventilator (or whatever it was) could well have been dying long before this outbreak. 

If this sort of thing starts to happen very regularly, and gets reported from official sources, then people can worry, but most people dont believe a tweet from the President of the USA, so why believe one from some random person?

[BornFromTheVoid]

 Professor of International Child Health, Director of the UCL Institute for Global Health and former director at WHO

 

[emax]

40 minutes ago, Mr Frost said:

Question for everyone - Why the low death rate for those countries compared to us...when they are all roughly on the same path as the U.K numbers wise? Better standard of living/life expectancy? Younger average age for population? Less older people contracting the virus than here? Government’s strict measures they have taken? 

As been mentioned, there will be a time lag on deaths.

However, social factors surely will have an effect (whether major or minor), owing to the fact that, especially this time of year, older people are more segregated compared to, for instance, Italy. As far as I know, Italy are a lot more family orientated in the sense that they have bigger family gatherings, much more so than the UK. I'm not 100% on that, but I'm fairly sure thats an accurate social description. 

[Stabilo19]

2 minutes ago, BornFromTheVoid said:

 Professor of International Child Health, Director of the UCL Institute for Global Health and former director at WHO

 

So in summary, he questions the actions of the UK government and thinks there is no evidence that the strategy will work.

[nick sussex]

4 minutes ago, BornFromTheVoid said:

 Professor of International Child Health, Director of the UCL Institute for Global Health and former director at WHO

 

Thanks for that. Very interesting points and this just further reinforces my view that this herd immunity policy means the government is rolling the dice and hoping for the best .

Its both unethical and immoral. People are not just bare statistics on a spread sheet .

[Stabilo19]

18 minutes ago, Summer Sun said:

 

Bristol University posted this yesterday:

"The student followed Public Health England (PHE) advice and self-isolated in private accommodation before they displayed symptoms. PHE do not consider individuals infectious until they develop symptoms.

"We are supporting the student to ensure they have everything they need to recover quickly from the illness.

"PHE have advised us that the risk to our community is very low. We do not currently need to take any additional actions and the University remains open as normal."

 

March: statement on confirmed coronavirus case | News and features | University of Bristol

WWW.BRISTOL.AC.UK

So what's changed? Several universities have reported cases of students with coronavirus but Bristol is the first to close. Although a few have moved to online teaching.. so that may be classified as closure.

Edited March 13, 2020 by Stabilo19

[matt111]

4 minutes ago, Stabilo19 said:

So in summary, he questions the actions of the UK government and thinks there is no evidence that the strategy will work.

Well the WHO effectively said the same in their press conference just now 

[emax]

10 minutes ago, BornFromTheVoid said:

 Professor of International Child Health, Director of the UCL Institute for Global Health and former director at WHO

 

God, that thread is the usual Twitter nonsense......some suggesting taking the government to court if a loved one dies, this is why I hate society lol.

I mean I dont disbelieve his credentials, and he makes valid points, but one is to suggest the UK should do what others are doing and thereby "snuff" the epidemic out? Surely he realises that just isnt possible unless you keep a nation locked up for months and months? 

[Summer Sun]

British Airways are going to ground flights 'like never before' and lay off staff

BA to 'cut flights and jobs' in response to virus

WWW.BBC.CO.UK

---

Airline's boss Alex Cruz tells staff planes will be grounded and jobs will go in response to pandemic

 

[Summer Sun]

Arsenal manager Mikel Arteta has tweeted saying he's "Feeling better already"

 

[Ryukai]

List of Local Authorities into the double digits for Coronavirus cases.  Big increases in areas around London.

Oxfordshire: 22     Kensington and Chelsea: 21     Hampshire: 20     Hertfordshire: 20     Surrey: 16     Barnet: 14     Devon: 14     Camden: 13     Southwark: 13     Westminster: 13     Kent: 11

 

Source:https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/f94c3c90da5b4e9f9a0b19484dd4bb14

 

[Zak M]

 

[Methuselah]

12 minutes ago, emax said:

God, that thread is the usual Twitter nonsense......some suggesting taking the government to court if a loved one dies, this is why I hate society lol.

I mean I dont disbelieve his credentials, and he makes valid points, but one is to suggest the UK should do what others are doing and thereby "snuff" the epidemic out? Surely he realises that just isnt possible unless you keep a nation locked up for months and months? 

I find it a tad sad that, when we are entering into a potential nightmare, from which no-one can be certain of surviving, certain types of muppet, are still obsessed with scoring points, for their respective political ends...

[emax]

2 minutes ago, Donegal said:

So if the UK is following the HERD Immunity strategy what's going to happen when your hospitals are inundated and your ICU units are usually at 80% capacity and if 2% of your population were infected at the same time and 1% of those needed icu you would already be grossly grossly unable to deal with it. Personally I think it's a shocking strategy and Italy on steroids awaits. 

Good luck keeping your schools and events etc closed for months on end, for a slight reduction in cases

[Stabilo19]

1 minute ago, emax said:

Good luck keeping your schools and events etc closed for months on end, for a slight reduction in cases

There isn't really any evidence for that - only the UK government have made statements like that as far as i'm aware.

Several countries have controlled cases without continuous closures for months on end. It's not impossible.

[emax]

Just now, Donegal said:

Good luck going it on your own thinking you're superior and know best as always. 

Right oh lol

But on a serious point, without arguing about it, who are you "with"?? So far, every country is going at it alone, bar Italy who have had help from China?

[nick sussex]

Herd immunity as a policy decision or aim would only work if you did the following.

Stopped children from seeing their older parents , stop grandchildren from visiting .

All older high risk groups self isolate for the entirety.

If you don’t do that then because your rates of infection are higher in the general public by extension older people are more at risk of seeing anyone .

The current  policy is effectively one where the current government has decided that the public might be able to stomach so many deaths and have decided that’s a price worth paying .

They’re now starting a propaganda campaign drip feeding that it’s all so great if at least 60% become infected . 

By extension that feeds into people taking less precautions.

It seems to me the science is being made to fit into the policy decision. 

The experts are being asked how do we get from a to b . And of course they’ve explained how to do that .

Are we really to believe that every single other country in the worlds experts are all wrong.

That the UK has found a miracle  policy which can  mean less economic impact short term and also have less deaths, do people not think other countries would be going for this , why would they want more economic damage .

Clearly other countries have decided they’re not willing to risk many more deaths.

And have decided they’d rather take more of an economic hit and save more lives .

That’s it , theres really no other logical position to take ! 

 

Edited March 13, 2020 by nick sussex

[emax]

Just now, Stabilo19 said:

There isn't really any evidence for that - only the UK government have made statements like that as far as i'm aware.

Several countries have controlled cases without continuous closures for months on end. It's not impossible.

The WHO just said that it makes a slight difference

[beatpete]

Swansea uni to close on 23rd

[Gray-Wolf]

I tried to make my points about the ,what I find callous and absurd, cummings et al plan to rely upon 'Herd Immunity' to 'Protect' our 'At Risk ' groups.

For 'herd immunity' to be effective the majority of folks must show some limited 'immunity' to the virus so that every time it is passed on it finds itself surrounded by 'immune folk' & so cannot spread.

The 'Issue' for the 'At Risk' groups is the need to remain 'uninfected' over the period in which we gain 'Herd Immunity'

Folk appear to baulk at a 2 week confinement but this will sentence 'At Risk' folk to months of strict barrier medicine to remain in splendid isolation from the world around as it runs up to ,reaches and falls back from 'Peak Infection'

It is utterly unworkable and may well precipitate the collapse of the NHS's ability to provide ICU/HD care (for 'anyone...no matter the complaint!) if the 'At risk' are subjected to an 'impossible ask' of remaining virus free?

It appears to me to be a 'Get it over with!' approach with no mind for the human costs of the approach nor the strain it will place on our 'social infrastructure' in the short term.

In short I believe this will not just cost our 'At Risk' groups but all who need the health service over the period it is 'Down'?

I am under no illusion that this is anything other than an attempt to keep 'the economy' as robust as possible, with as little an interruption as possible, over the period of this crisis.

Advice?

Get over yourself!, you are ALL 'Little People' in this one and so 'expendable' should it come to it!

 

Edited March 13, 2020 by BornFromTheVoid
keep the comments on topic!

[emax]

2 minutes ago, Stabilo19 said:

Several countries have controlled cases without continuous closures for months on end. It's not impossible.

Its too early to comment on that though. Only time will tell whether it comes back or not