Scotland Weather discussion

[Northernlights]

Local wood contractor turned up to  cut up trees on the farm road for my estate. Known him  a  long time and  a real character has some superb views on the landowners roundabout describing my estate as someone sitting on a beach watching a ship   disappear on the horizon and suddenly realising that they should have been on it. Another local estate once descibed to me by my factor/land agent as an overfunded estate, this wood contractor describes them as having a vision a very accurate description in my opinion.

Windy, bright, dry and 9c

Edited February 1, 2022 by Northernlights

[skifreak]

2 hours ago, Northernlights said:

Another observationis OK wind directions have been different but I have never seen so many trees come down so easily

Is a factor here not just the wind direction that the strongest winds have come from, but we’ve gone a number of winters without particularly notable storms. Certainly on the mountains, the ski areas haven’t had particularly big damaging storms come through for a few winters, not on the scale of Storm Frank that ripped roofs of buildings, blew in vehicles windows even at relatively low levels like the Glencoe carpark at just over 1000ft, overturned vehicles in the Coire Cas Carpark on CairnGorm etc!

[Glaswegianblizzard]

1 hour ago, Quinach said:

As ever, money is the root cause of all the power cuts.  Heard similar comments from our farmer neighbours.  Another issue is that a lot of the forestry round here was flogged of by the local estates to city investment companies who then sold them on piecemeal to other financial companies here and abroad (eg the German pension fund I previously mentioned).  None of them maintain a local presence so contacting owners to make emergency decisions is time consuming.  As for getting maintenance done, with no empathy for the local area, they seem to not give a darn - how else to explain this kind of lunacy where the high voltage line for hundreds of houses is towered over by plantation firs...

That is the broken line that is leaving us still without power, so decamped to Aberdeen once again with the kids.

Strong gusty winds, occasional rain showers and milder than of late at 9c.

Edit, regarding the extreme tree loss, farmer neighbour was given an explanation by a visiting ecologist that trees root system round here are weaker than usual thanks to the droughts a few years ago killing of some of the root mass (supposedly takes 5yrs for them to recover).

That's quite interesting - sad and unfortunate as well - when were the droughts up there? 

My partner has occasionally shown interest in schemes to buy land and plant trees on it. It evidently isn't without risk, not to mention the possibility of losing all or the bulk of it to a storm. Would be interested in finding out more about these things.

[mardatha]

I don't want to read about fir trees coming down, not since I moved under this one. Wind making a hell of a racket today, very roary.

[Scottish-Irish Skier]

With my neighbour and I on the job, this (where we often walk the dogs):

Is now this:

Plus increasing piles of this in the gairden!

The farm around us has a remote landlord in the south of England. The farm manager is a local and a nice guy. We can help ourselves to fallen stuff, especially if it clears field access tracks!

But aye, I'm tired of this winter. Totally trashed the things around here. It's interesting what folk say about the drought and roots, because bawbag and other similar storms never did this level of damage.

[Snowandrocks]

Interesting idea about the droughts and tree roots - I was blaming the opposite issue as the land around us is soaking wet for much of the year. 

Also, it's probably not a very fashionable viewpoint but I've been very impressed by SSEN - the damage to the lines through the forest that only lead to our house was catastrophic, with further trees and lines down on Sunday night.  A big team of guys turned up early this morning and sorted the lot. I was expecting to be off until Thursday or Friday at the earliest. 

I also don't like the idea of clear felling anything within striking of the lines either - it would mean the loss of endless beautiful trees around here to avoid what is really only an occasional risk. 

Much more sensible would be for those reliant on overhead lines for power to take some personal responsibility - everyone living rurally should have an alternative source of heat and a way of cooking simple meals. To be entirely reliant on electricity is borderline irresponsible. 

[Scottish-Irish Skier]

48 minutes ago, Snowandrocks said:

 Much more sensible would be for those reliant on overhead lines for power to take some personal responsibility - everyone living rurally should have an alternative source of heat and a way of cooking simple meals. To be entirely reliant on electricity is borderline irresponsible. 

Aye, thank heavens for our open fire combined with a high level of insulation (we gutted our 1860's cottage and insulated it when we did it up - later extension is even more insulation maxed).

We have off-peak storage heating powered by crap Scottish weather, which works a treat with the insulation (forget it if without), and so is pretty green. But if the power does down we have at most 24 hours of warmth without the fire. The latter is a lifesaver. When we lost power with Arwen, the house was still 17C outside the living room a day later, and very cosy within it.

Like you say, particularly in the sticks, relying solely on electric power, including for cars is quite dangerous. Possibly life-threatening. While I expect to have one of our two cars fully electric in the next few years, I want a petrol/diesel kept in place, at least a hybrid. That or an alternative liquid powered vehicle where I can keep a jerry can in the shed if needed. 

Electricity has limits. Petrol/diesel have about 50x the energy density of the best Li batteries, so for emergency fuel, they remain no brainers. In the case of emergency vehicles dealing with a natural disaster, particularly in remote areas, this could not be clearer.

 

Edited February 1, 2022 by Scottish-Irish Skier

[Ravelin]

We've also relied heavily on our wood/coal burning stove in the lounge on the three occasions this winter when we've lost the electricity supply. Keeps most of the house warm when the expensively installed heat pump can't pump heat (although we do love it when it does). The lpg supplied gas stove means we can also cook and heat water, with the only adjustment being the need to use matches to light the burners. 

Water is a problem for us though, and an unintentional one of our own making. Last Sept we got a pressure sensing pump put in to replace the old one that just pumped water up to a tank in the loft when it got low. It's much better in terms of pressure to the taps, showers etc, but doesn't work if we've no power. We'll seriously have to think about chatting to the plumber about how we might be able to utilise the loft tank for emergencies, even if I have to manually open a valve. 

The final issue is internet connectivity, as its apparent that we can't rely on mobile signal. Our telephone line has worked through all three outages using a basic phone, but of course the internet router needs power. We'll probably look at buying a camping battery station that could power that, and help charge tablets/phones as well. 

I have looked at the potential of a battery system in the garage that could store enough to power most things for a day or two if used carefully. That would be best along with solar panels, but would cost several thousands to install. 

Edited February 1, 2022 by Ravelin

[Hairy Celt]

3 minutes ago, Ravelin said:

We've also relied heavily on our wood/coal burning stove in the lounge on the three occasions this winter when we've lost the electricity supply. Keeps most of the house warm when the expensively installed heat pump can't pump heat (although we do love it when it does). The lpg supplied gas stove means we can also cook and heat water, with the only adjustment being the need to use matches to light the burners. 

Water is a problem for us though, and an unintentional one of our own making. Last Sept we got a pressure sensing pump put in to replace the old one that just pumped water up to a tank in the loft. It's much better in term of pressure to the taps, showers etc, but doesn't work if we've no power. We'll seriously have to think about chatting to the plumber about how we might be able to utilise the loft tank for emergencies, even if I have to manually open a valve. 

The final issue is internet connectivity, as its apparent that we can't rely on mobile signal. Our telephone line has worked through all three outages using a basic phone, but of course the Internet router needs power. We'll probably look at buying a camping battery station that could power that, and help charge tablets/phones for a day or two. 

I have looked at the potential of a battery system in the garage that could store enough to power most things for a day or two if used carefully. That would be best along with solar panels, but would cost several thousands to install. 

Keep a lead/acid battery somewhere, make sure it's fully charged at times like this. Get a cheap inverter for charging small electronics and running a router etc. Loads of these for sale online - buyer beware! It's a pretty crude option - means you have to be prepared to lug a heavy battery around and have somewhere sensible to put it indoors when needed. This is nothing like the set-up you've thought about installing in your garage though.

We have an old phone that works fine with no other connection than the phone line, although it's not going to last forever - think it was a work cast-off about 30 years ago. Are these devices still made?

[Snowandrocks]

That's irritating about the water Ravelin - our spring fed supply is usually pumped but does still run very slowly by gravity. 

We can live quite comfortably with the woodburner for heat and a kettle, large pillar candles in lanterns and a gas ring/bbq if we want to cook properly. 

Our nearest neighbour invested in a good Honda invertor generator with his compensation money from Arwen. I went up to see them and they were living pretty much as normal - I think he said it was rated at 2.2kw but it was happily running his lights, fridge freezer, oil boiler and WiFi router. Very quiet little thing too. He keeps a large drum of aspen fuel which doesn't go off like normal petrol and should last over a week of normal running. 

[skifreak]

37 minutes ago, Hairy Celt said:

We have an old phone that works fine with no other connection than the phone line, although it's not going to last forever - think it was a work cast-off about 30 years ago. Are these devices still made?

Yes, 6 to 10quid at Argos. However, the PSTN copper network is due to be switched off in Dec 2024 - interesting to see what if any contingency is put in place. We frankly should have been laying single mode fibre to premises / homes since the early 1980s, though the basic copper telephone network does have the advantage that the phone is powered by the exchange line.

However there does seem to have been quite a few exchanges go offline in recent storms entirely. I’ve older relatives that were flown around in RAF sea kings delivering charged batteries and fuel for topping up generators around telephone exchanges that couldn’t be reached by road in the Highlands.

[Ravelin]

32 minutes ago, Snowandrocks said:

That's irritating about the water Ravelin - our spring fed supply is usually pumped but does still run very slowly by gravity. 

The cistern our house and the one in front draw from is uphill from our house, but only slightly so needed the old pump to shift water up to the loft tank. It might just manage to gravity feed the neighbours as they are lower. The cistern does have a lid and I can draw bucketfuls manually if needed. 

33 minutes ago, Snowandrocks said:

Our nearest neighbour invested in a good Honda invertor generator with his compensation money from Arwen.

We did consider that, but then decided it would likely sit idle for all but a very rare occasion. We have a petrol lawn tractor so usually have a supply of petrol handy. Garage outside Alford has its own generator and can pump fuel even when the whole area is out (as long as you can pay in cash). 

32 minutes ago, skifreak said:

. However, the PSTN copper network is due to be switched off in Dec 2024

They'll need to get a shift on then if they are going to get my copper line replaced by 2024. Direct line to the exchange, as are most others in the vicinity. Not even a street cabinet anywhere nearby, which is why we rely on 4G for a decent speed broadband connection. 

[SW Saltire]

13 hours ago, Snowandrocks said:

Interesting idea about the droughts and tree roots - I was blaming the opposite issue as the land around us is soaking wet for much of the year. 

Also, it's probably not a very fashionable viewpoint but I've been very impressed by SSEN - the damage to the lines through the forest that only lead to our house was catastrophic, with further trees and lines down on Sunday night.  A big team of guys turned up early this morning and sorted the lot. I was expecting to be off until Thursday or Friday at the earliest. 

I also don't like the idea of clear felling anything within striking of the lines either - it would mean the loss of endless beautiful trees around here to avoid what is really only an occasional risk. 

Much more sensible would be for those reliant on overhead lines for power to take some personal responsibility - everyone living rurally should have an alternative source of heat and a way of cooking simple meals. To be entirely reliant on electricity is borderline irresponsible. 

Re your last paragraph - I fully agree and tbh it applies to so many things in our society in 2022. I’ll stop as I’m sounding 76 and not the 26 years old that I am.

It’s like when there’s heavy snow and people still try and drive their unsuitable car on summer tyres up a hill. Get stuck with no blankets/food/snow shovel/charged phones/spare fuel and expect the emergency services to get them immediately. Away and boil your heed. 

13 hours ago, Scottish-Irish Skier said:

Aye, thank heavens for our open fire combined with a high level of insulation (we gutted our 1860's cottage and insulated it when we did it up - later extension is even more insulation maxed).

We have off-peak storage heating powered by crap Scottish weather, which works a treat with the insulation (forget it if without), and so is pretty green. But if the power does down we have at most 24 hours of warmth without the fire. The latter is a lifesaver. When we lost power with Arwen, the house was still 17C outside the living room a day later, and very cosy within it.

Like you say, particularly in the sticks, relying solely on electric power, including for cars is quite dangerous. Possibly life-threatening. While I expect to have one of our two cars fully electric in the next few years, I want a petrol/diesel kept in place, at least a hybrid. That or an alternative liquid powered vehicle where I can keep a jerry can in the shed if needed. 

Electricity has limits. Petrol/diesel have about 50x the energy density of the best Li batteries, so for emergency fuel, they remain no brainers. In the case of emergency vehicles dealing with a natural disaster, particularly in remote areas, this could not be clearer.

 

Very good point, as much as I support the move to electric I can certainly see some drawbacks. When the whole country is putting strain on the network I wonder how cheap it’ll really be (Gov will want their tax after all) and as someone employed by the emergency services I wonder how these electric vehicles will cope when their blue lights are left on to alert other drives to a broken down vehicle/RTC. 
How will the range drop when you start putting the foot really down… When they get 50,000 miles a year….

That’s above my pay grade though so as the old saying goes ‘Who’s carin’? No me’

Edited February 2, 2022 by SW Saltire

[Northernlights]

13 hours ago, Snowandrocks said:

 

 

January has gone from muddy to dusty ground surface in 3 weeks with all this wind and little rain. Just knew fixing drains at Xmas would do that and yuong Mr Northernlights has got most of the ploughed ground prepared and stones off before the end of January. Quite a turnround.Fruit trees all pruned too before the end of January. Currently dull dry a fresh breeze and 7

[Northern Strath]

This also sums up this winter so far. Even the Groundhogs can’t bear any more of it 

[SW Saltire]

1 hour ago, Northern Strath said:

This also sums up this winter so far. Even the Groundhogs can’t bear any more of it 

I’m glad to have Saas-Fee booked, get my snow fix as this has been so horrifically poor.

[Northern Strath]

22 minutes ago, SW Saltire said:

I’m glad to have Saas-Fee booked, get my snow fix as this has been so horrifically poor.

Ooft, nice, enjoy

[101_North]

A seriously rare event this winter! Snow symbols in an automated Met Office forecast

[Hairy Celt]

1 hour ago, 101_North said:

A seriously rare event this winter! Snow symbols in an automated Met Office forecast

Two words, snowfall and whiteout, are in the MWIS forecast for NW Highlands for Friday. I'm going to make damn sure I'm on a hill somewhere!

[Ross90]

Going back to the tree damage I think some/most of it might just be down to the fact that there were no notable storms in some areas for a couple of years. Trees that would otherwise have blown over earlier in an average storm were left standing for longer. Add to that the weakening effect that northerly winds from Arwen had I think there were a lot of trees that were one good gale away from being downed.   

[Ravelin]

1 hour ago, Ross90 said:

dd to that the weakening effect that northerly winds from Arwen had I think there were a lot of trees that were one good gale away from being downed.

And then we got two good gales in quick succession.

Another nondescript day in Aberdeenshire, which after two good gales in succession was kind of OK I suppose. At least I'm not sat in the dark.

[Northernlights]

Fine day for being outside with almost no wind but mostly cloudy and under 10c. Probably jinxed it now by ordering up lime to spread on ploughed up grass with all this dryer weather. Sure enough the wind is getting up tonight.

Road cleared yesterday but logs still to be moved to loading point. Contractor was told not to bring lifting gear just now as it would add to costs.

[milkmaid]

we got power back on properly late last night .Around here most of the downed trees were the ones with ash dieback ,a few firs ect though not many . Can i thank everyone for their ideas ,on resilience in power outages as we ended up with my grandchildren their house relies on electric ,we don't really having wood burning stove for cooking ,a few bits might have found their way into my shopping basket to make things more comfortable next time wind up radio and charger being one ,we were better equipped on Lewis when we lived there and the tech has really moved forward  ,bored kids need something to do lol,

Edited February 3, 2022 by milkmaid

[Mair Snaw]

I see the express have gone with "valentines snow bomb to explode over UK " ... 

[Quinach]

Power finally returned yesterday afternoon and the mobile signal erupted back to life in the last hour.

Some of the damage round here from the two storms is really quite impressive, this is one of the local fir plantations.  The root systems are very shallow when you get up close.

Some dangerously leaning trees next to the road so they've been reported to the council.

As for SSEN, the engineers that repaired the line I showed in a previous post came all the way from Kent - apparently almost all available engineers in the UK were called up.  Talk about running an operation with a "streamlined" workforce.

Edit - and by the power of Streetview, taking that last photo, this is what it looked like in Nov last year...

Actually feels springlike outside with a temperature of 9c and light winds.  A few chinks of blue sky as well allowing fleeting glimpses of the sun.

Edited February 3, 2022 by Quinach