Spring and Summer weather moans

[*Stormforce~beka*]

Bloody 'ell an ice-cream van has turned up! Are they stupid it's freezing!!

[sheikhy]

35 minutes ago, mb018538 said:

Wish I could say the same. Radar has been showing nothing here all day since the frontal rain pushed through, but it’s been drizzling non stop since this morning. So much so that it’s managed to add 0.27mm to the rain gauge. Since 11am. None of the models have done too well on this aspect here.

Yeh we had that threatening drizzle here  between 9.30 and 1am even though radar had nothing over us but it didnt get too heavy and eventually stopped!!got away with one big time here!!

[chapmanslade]

1 hour ago, Alderc said:

Any decent weather looks fair way down the track, difficult tot see where the next 25C comes from. Although to be perfectly honest making 20C will be a struggle for many areas in the next 10days. 

 

Talk about glass half empty .... Lost the glass altogether now.

 

30 miles north of you we are likely to get to 20C on Tuesday and then close or above pretty much from then on this week. We had 5 days at or above 20c this last week, including late on yesterday. Whilst not high pressure dominated the sun is so strong at this time of year it is easy to get to 20c even late in the day as we did yesterday.

[stainesbloke]

Hope you all manage to enjoy the celebrations, despite the crap weather! It’s a miserable 14°C in London currently, dreadful. So glad I don’t have to endure this rubbish much (27°C in Prague today).

[Dusk1983]

41 minutes ago, markyo said:

Got to admit, still in t shirt and shorts, windows open, bedroom fans on....no idea why folk think I'm weird

Genuine question. Are you overweight? Speaking from experience when I’ve been heavier the difference in perceived temperature is very noticeable 

Edited June 5, 2022 by Dusk1983

[I remember Atlantic 252]

1 hour ago, sheikhy said:

Yeh we had that threatening drizzle here  between 9.30 and 1am even though radar had nothing over us but it didnt get too heavy and eventually stopped!!got away with one big time here!!

virtual repeat exact temp wise, same weather as 13th and 20th Feb, kind of got away with a washout with just on and off drizzle since 9am

[*Stormforce~beka*]

1 hour ago, Dusk1983 said:

Genuine question. Are you overweight? Speaking from experience when I’ve been heavier the difference in perceived temperature is very noticeable 

I wanted to ask this question too but felt it would be too rude. But it would explain it a bit more. My hubby is similar he's in shorts and t-shirts right now and i'm in bed in my jim jams defrosting. I'm a skinny rake and he is 5 stone over weight so explains it for him.

[markyo]

1 hour ago, Dusk1983 said:

Genuine question. Are you overweight? Speaking from experience when I’ve been heavier the difference in perceived temperature is very noticeable 

I have been like this all my life, always disliked the heat and direct sun, makes me uncomfortable. Played Rugby for Yorkshire as a teen and early twenties, fitness made no difference. As for overweight now, yes of course i am, i'm over 50 ex rugby player with knackered knees, for me weight has never been the issue. I just feel temps differently to most even though i work year round in 30c plus temps and high humidity

Edited June 5, 2022 by markyo

[markyo]

31 minutes ago, *Stormforce~beka* said:

I wanted to ask this question too but felt it would be too rude. But it would explain it a bit more. My hubby is similar he's in shorts and t-shirts right now and i'm in bed in my jim jams defrosting. I'm a skinny rake and he is 5 stone over weight so explains it for him.

For me the biggest difference i have found is between species...Been in so many offices with females large and small, guarantee you they are all complaining if  it is below 20c, size makes no difference..Hence i live on my own! To be honest which is healthier? I have no idea

Edited June 5, 2022 by markyo

[TheOgre]

I feel sorry for any communities who chose today instead of Thursday or Friday for their street party ️ What a difference between Thu/Fri to Sat/Sun! Barely 11C today! 

[*Stormforce~beka*]

7 minutes ago, markyo said:

For me the biggest difference i have found is between species...Been in so many offices with females large and small, guarantee you they are all complaining if  it is below 20c, size makes no difference..Hence i live on my own! To be honest which is healthier? I have no idea

In regards to females you could be half right there! I know that when you ovulate and progesterone takes over your body temperature rises. (this is how you can tell if you have already ovulated if your using the natural planning method!). But pre ovulation when Estrogen is in charge body temperature is lower. So I wonder if the hormones do have something to do with it ... A bit like menopause when the estrogen drops ... body temp goes up and you get the hot flushes ... Hmmm!  Trying to think how I was when I was 4 stone over weight 10 years ago but I can't remember! I wanna say I was less cold. More body fat makes sense to a degree

[markyo]

53 minutes ago, *Stormforce~beka* said:

In regards to females you could be half right there! I know that when you ovulate and progesterone takes over your body temperature rises. (this is how you can tell if you have already ovulated if your using the natural planning method!). But pre ovulation when Estrogen is in charge body temperature is lower. So I wonder if the hormones do have something to do with it ... A bit like menopause when the estrogen drops ... body temp goes up and you get the hot flushes ... Hmmm!  Trying to think how I was when I was 4 stone over weight 10 years ago but I can't remember! I wanna say I was less cold. More body fat makes sense to a degree

Very valid points...But I'll stick with my species theory...I had so many battles with my Ex over the stat control, you women do seem to like a warmer environment to nag us men in!

Edited June 5, 2022 by markyo

[Mapantz]

1 hour ago, markyo said:

always disliked the heat and direct sun, makes me uncomfortable.

I simply don't believe a word you say anymore.

Just last year, you had "Hot" in your weather preferences until it was pointed out, then you swiftly removed it.

[Summer8906]

Today was quite possibly one of the gloomiest and darkest June days I think I've experienced.

The midday light level was reminiscent of a dull day in December. As the afternoon progressed (and it didn't get dark at the time it would in December) it switched to feeling like a particularly bad day in late October, just before the change to GMT.

On the other hand it didn't feel that cold, if anything slightly humid and oppressive so a high DP, whatever the temperature was.

Also has been steady non-convective rain for the past two hours or so, don't think that was forecast. 

Hoping the rest of this week isn't going to give too many repeat performances, though Wed and Thurs look a bit damp. That said, the 24 hours or so after a thundery spell seem to be particularly prone to really intense gloom so maybe this will be the worst it'll get all week, at least from a day-gloom point of view.

Edited June 5, 2022 by Summer8906

[Summer8906]

5 hours ago, Stabilo19 said:

Winter woollies required for jubilee parties this afternoon..

Is it June or November? The lack of seasonal variation of the UK's climate is prominent today.

Except the variation between the mid-March to mid-May period (aka the real summer) and every other time of year.

[markyo]

42 minutes ago, Mapantz said:

I simply don't believe a word you say anymore.

Just last year, you had "Hot" in your weather preferences until it was pointed out, then you swiftly removed it.

`Again,...i don't get your fixation with my posts. Its very weird. 

Edited June 5, 2022 by markyo

[Summer8906]

7 hours ago, reef said:

I've always been of the view that the 1989-2006 period was more an anomalous period rather than summers from 2007 being duller. This is especially the case for August: its never been a reliably sunny month and by the end its only three weeks from the equinox so the opportunity to build up sunshine hours like the other two summer months is much less.

The data seems to show this. The summers since 2007 aren't really any duller on a long term basis, they have just been on average worse than that unusual period before.

I'm just glad I was around during the 1989 to 2006 period and old enough (young adult, mostly) to appreciate them. If the summers since 2007 are typical, then that paints a somewhat less-than-positive picture of the typical UK summer climate. Of the 15 summers since 2007, I would only class three of them as good: 2013, 2014 and 2018.  2009, 2010 and 2016 were kind-of acceptable, but the other 9 were varying degrees of poor. (And I don't expect endless 1976, 1989 or 1995-style summers; something like 1996, 2001 or 2005 would do me).

Even so, the pressure anomalies for those 18-year periods posted by @BruenSryan do indicate that 2007-21 has had an unusual pressure anomaly compared to the pre-1989 period, with a very notable cyclonic SW-ly anomaly evident not present in any of the pre-1989 periods. It could have then been that while cloudiness was common pre-1989 (and the 80s did produce some cloudy summers, that I do remember) the type of cloud might have been different. With more of a N-ly bias in 1971-88, perhaps there was less in the way of the persistent moist, high-DP southwesterlies with low-based cloud that I particularly dislike. (As it happens I do remember more classic showery NW-ly Pm airmasses and cool and cloudy but dry anticyclonic NW-ly weather in the 80s compared to recently, which would accord with that).

Edited June 5, 2022 by Summer8906

[MP-R]

21 minutes ago, Summer8906 said:

Today was quite possibly one of the gloomiest and darkest June days I think I've experienced.

The midday light level was reminiscent of a dull day in December. As the afternoon progressed (and it didn't get dark at the time it would in December) it switched to feeling like a particularly bad day in late October, just before the change to GMT.

On the other hand it didn't feel that cold, if anything slightly humid and oppressive so a high DP, whatever the temperature was.

Also has been steady non-convective rain for the past two hours or so, don't think that was forecast. 

Hoping the rest of this week isn't going to give too many repeat performances, though Wed and Thurs look a bit damp. That said, the 24 hours or so after a thundery spell seem to be particularly prone to really intense gloom so maybe this will be the worst it'll get all week, at least from a day-gloom point of view.

This dullness is quite a common feature of these cyclonic mean easterly setups. It happened too one day in June last year, in June 2019 when the maximum was even lower, May 2016, 2014, 2012, 2008 and 2007. 

As you say, it seems to be a common theme the day after thunderstorms.

[Summer8906]

10 minutes ago, MP-R said:

This dullness is quite a common feature of these cyclonic mean easterly setups. It happened too one day in June last year, in June 2019 when the maximum was even lower, May 2016, 2014, 2012, 2008 and 2007. 

As you say, it seems to be a common theme the day after thunderstorms.

Yes, the gloom after storms seems to be a consistent pattern, whatever the wind direction. It's rare, for instance, to get a clean Pm airmass straight after thunderstorms, even though the text books always tend to associate organised storms with cold fronts and emphasise clearer, colder, low DP air following straight behind said fronts. Maybe this is more what happens in North America? Certainly when I was in Montreal in summer 1994 there was much more of a "hot weather, thunderstorms, then cooler and much fresher" pattern.

If there have been overnight thunderstorms it's almost inevitable (unless there is a rare change to a strong high-latitude Pm) to get a dull morning. If we're very lucky it can clear by midday (3 July 1999 was one example) but more commonly it persists all day.

And the dullness isn't restricted to the areas which actually got the storms (which could be explained by evaporation of massive amounts of surface water, perhaps) but also those which missed them, as we did today. Would be interesting to hear an explanation of this.

My earliest memory of this happening was in 1981, when we suffered as many as two and a half dull days after the August 6 storms. Luckily after that most of the rest of the month was very sunny!

Edited June 5, 2022 by Summer8906

[damianslaw]

30 minutes ago, Summer8906 said:

I'm just glad I was around during the 1989 to 2006 period and old enough (young adult, mostly) to appreciate them. If the summers since 2007 are typical, then that paints a somewhat less-than-positive picture of the typical UK summer climate. Of the 15 summers since 2007, I would only class three of them as good: 2013, 2014 and 2018.  2009, 2010 and 2016 were kind-of acceptable, but the other 9 were varying degrees of poor. (And I don't expect endless 1976, 1989 or 1995-style summers; something like 1996, 2001 or 2005 would do me).

Even so, the pressure anomalies for those 18-year periods posted by @BruenSryan do indicate that 2007-21 has had an unusual pressure anomaly compared to the pre-1989 period, with a very notable cyclonic SW-ly anomaly evident not present in any of the pre-1989 periods. It could have then been that while cloudiness was common pre-1989 (and the 80s did produce some cloudy summers, that I do remember) the type of cloud might have been different. With more of a N-ly bias in 1971-88, perhaps there was less in the way of the persistent moist, high-DP southwesterlies with low-based cloud that I particularly dislike. (As it happens I do remember more classic showery NW-ly Pm airmasses and cool and cloudy but dry anticyclonic NW-ly weather in the 80s compared to recently, which would accord with that).

SW airstreams are my least favourite, low cloud dank and humid, not a fan at all, and unfortunately we've been plagued by SW airstreams for second half of the summer in most recent summers it means.. 2010 was a rare summer when we had more northerly influences, and despite temps being supressed was often a sunny bright summer. NW airstrams in summer can be invigorating giving heavy downpours and bright clear skies, much prefer them to the dreaded SW airstream!

[Frigid]

52 minutes ago, Summer8906 said:

Today was quite possibly one of the gloomiest and darkest June days I think I've experienced.

Yep! Raining all day and temps not exceeding 11c. Kinda reminds me of...Sunday 3rd June 2012. What a coincidence that is..

Here it's actually been the coolest June day (max temp) since that day. Almost makes you think if the weather gods are doing it on purpose.  The Jubilee weekend has once again been plagued by cool and wet weather. Who knows, we may get a heatwave in 2032 

[summer blizzard]

I'm with those who view the 07-21 period as not overly bad, just a lot closer to average than the prior 89-06 period.

If you look at the number of summers which actually saw all three months below average then you only have 08, 11 and 15 set against 16 and 18 for all three months above with most other months having a normal mix of 1 or 2 above, 1 or 2 below.

 

[al78]

2 hours ago, markyo said:

For me the biggest difference i have found is between species...Been in so many offices with females large and small, guarantee you they are all complaining if  it is below 20c, size makes no difference..Hence i live on my own! To be honest which is healthier? I have no idea

My bridge club can be an extreme version of that. Women complaining when you put the air conditioning on when the temperature reaches 30C with no air circulation. This is the problem with a long narrow room with west facing windows along one long side, it heats up quickly during a summer afternoon and doesn't cool down in the evening. The most extreme case was when a woman complained about being cold when the thermometer above her head was recording 24.5C. Makes me wonder how some of these people survive even a mild winter in the UK.

For me today it has been a very dull December-like day but the temperature has felt warm enough that I was in short sleeves when outside, and I am a slender build.

[Guest]

I swear if anyone posts in the next 2-3weeks ‘we need the rain’ or ‘it’s good weather for gardeners’ I’ll hit ‘em with so much spam they’ll never touch the internet again

[al78]

8 minutes ago, summer blizzard said:

I'm with those who view the 07-21 period as not overly bad, just a lot closer to average than the prior 89-06 period.

If you look at the number of summers which actually saw all three months below average then you only have 08, 11 and 15 set against 16 and 18 for all three months above with most other months having a normal mix of 1 or 2 above, 1 or 2 below.

 

What are you defining as average given the climate has been warming?

It is arguably more robust to detrend the CET timeseries and conduct analysis on this detrended data to look at which tercile the month or season falls into.

Is there such a thing as a summer index where temperature, sunshine and rainfall anomalies can be combined together into one quantitative number to define the quality of a summer?