A couple of my observations/question posers on Meto forecasts of this nature for the discussion: 1. The media office really ought to have known better than to have spun the forecasters' hard work into that dreadful phrase 'bbq summer' this year. It really could be egg on face time as it's such a difference to their normal conservative, carefully presented and reasoned analyses. The review of the forecast in the autumn may allow us an insight into the processes that produced this, and it will be interesting to see if they come out defending it. August permitting of course... However, if they do defend it (stay with me, there is a logic here through all the ifs and buts), would they be able to justify a headline for a winter forecast along the lines of 'big freeze' for two five day long outbreaks of substantially below average temperatures in Scotland? I add the geography in there as the most likely area to have hot weather is the southeast - and that's where the hottest 'bbq weather' has been - so conversely in winter it's Scotland that's more likely to experience said cold? 2. If last year's form is anything to go by - the monthly updates after October are the most interesting and appear much more accurate. It's obviously nearer the event, so it's a more robust forecast, but also the real flavour of weather gets described rather than a generic 'likely to be near or above average' measure which is all we will get until then. You don't subscribe to the high SSTs around SE Greenland aiding cyclogenisis Fred? Or are you looking at the bigger picture? I'm sure Ian Brown would disagree....