How close this year?

[PersianPaladin]

Why is it your crystal ball is always half empty?

Because he has no life.

[Bobby]

Why is it your crystal ball is always half empty?

It is stating a fact.

Flu pandemics aren't suddenly going to stop happening.

[PersianPaladin]

It is stating a fact.

Flu pandemics aren't suddenly going to stop happening.

Apologies for my rather idiotic comment....BUT...all I ever see you doing on this forum is repeating cynical doom-mongering poorly substantiated statements without offering any solutions to the problem.

What are YOU going to do about it? What are YOU going to do about these issues...whether it be disease or climate change or whatever?

Instead of rambling on and driving people paranoid; suggest, persuade, inform......rather than just be so cynical and one-dimensional.

[Gray-Wolf]

Apologies for my rather idiotic comment....BUT...all I ever see you doing on this forum is repeating cynical doom-mongering poorly substantiated statements without offering any solutions to the problem.

What are YOU going to do about it? What are YOU going to do about these issues...whether it be disease or climate change or whatever?

Instead of rambling on and driving people paranoid; suggest, persuade, inform......rather than just be so cynical and one-dimensional.

I would imagine that any right thinking person has already done what they can by now!

I imagine that you only start to try and help/wise up others when your own house is in order and ,unlike in the U.S., the U.K. govt. tends to let it's populace figure this one out for themselves but the measures needed to help you through those first 2 months are simple enough.

I take it you are far too wise to consider it necessary for you to insure your own continuance P.P.?

For the rest, how much time do you think you will have from when we hear of the first cases of the next influenza pandemic and it's appearance on our shores in this age of air travel? The troop ships managed it in months the last time.

Have any of you seen what happens to the 'last minute Joe's' when a Hurricane is bearing down on them in the U.S. Would you think us more polite and orderly here if we suddenly found ourselves needing to take on supplies and essentials or will it just be the same type of unruly scrum?

For the price of a family meal and a couple of bottles of vino you can at least give yourself more of a chance to sustain and remain isolated as the first 'sweep' overtakes us. It's the kind of insurance you only need take out every couple of years and you can stick it in the loft and forget it (if it makes you feel foolish) but then what if you haven't? how foolish will you feel then?

Life is for living and not for worrying so take away some of the 'worries' that you can and then you can rest easy I say! Otherwise, listen to the 'don't care ,won't care , I'll choose my own worries' brigade and do nowt! See you on the other side eh?

[Bobby]

It's not my job to save the world. I just say things as I see them. Being pessimistic doesn't mean I'm a doom monger, rather I see myself as a realist, looking at things logically and trying to see the truth. Optimists generally seem to have the unfounded arguments to me. Fact is, bad things happen in the world.

[Gray-Wolf]

once again magpie we face the same old same old!

the human condition will always lead to unfounded optimism to offset the awful reality of our mortality. We are all a little mad to live within this 'delusion' but life ,apparently, would be unbearable were we to fully grasp the futility of existance and live daily in the knowledge of our mortality.

Be it climate change, pandemic, fossil fuel crisis or whatever most will always choose to live protected in their never never lands focusing on their 'happy thoughts' to make their life more bearable.

Should a 'realist' force their attentions towards the unsavoury then they will seek to quiet the messenger so they can retreat back into their perfect little happy worlds without dirty little reality presenting itself there.

[PersianPaladin]

It's not my job to save the world. I just say things as I see them. Being pessimistic doesn't mean I'm a doom monger, rather I see myself as a realist, looking at things logically and trying to see the truth. Optimists generally seem to have the unfounded arguments to me. Fact is, bad things happen in the world.

You don't come across as a realist to me.

You come across as somebody who just sits back and doesn't look at the whole picture or the ways of dealing with problems. You're always doom-mongering.

[The PIT]

To keep this in proportion the population estimated in 2007 is 234,693,997 In Jakarta the population is 8,792,000.

I don't know how healthy or the living the conditions are of these people who have contacted the disease is but I bet a lot of them it isn't brilliant. Over all very few people are effected by it and again it's not worth panicking over it.

Aids is a bigger problem and no ones batting an eyelid over that or perhaps it because the Chemical companies have mostly given up on a cure on it they can't panic Governments into stocking vaccines.

Also if I remember correctly didn't mad cow disease get into human food supply and there was going to be huge increase in human cases. Didn't happen did it.

Sars what happened to that????

Chill out and relax the end is nigh virus hasn't arrived yet.

[Gray-Wolf]

To keep this in proportion the population estimated in 2007 is 234,693,997 In Jakarta the population is 8,792,000.

I don't know how healthy or the living the conditions are of these people who have contacted the disease is but I bet a lot of them it isn't brilliant. Over all very few people are effected by it and again it's not worth panicking over it.

Aids is a bigger problem and no ones batting an eyelid over that or perhaps it because the Chemical companies have mostly given up on a cure on it they can't panic Governments into stocking vaccines.

Also if I remember correctly didn't mad cow disease get into human food supply and there was going to be huge increase in human cases. Didn't happen did it.

SARs what happened to that????

Chill out and relax the end is nigh virus hasn't arrived yet.

Pit, if we believe all we read H5N1 is a very difficult disease to catch at present! not may of us eat bird pooh or mess with infected entrails. The problem lies with those contracting it and enabling it to 'link up' with the flu virus we are all familiar with. The more bird Flu on the planet ,the more folk contract it ,the closer we are to the final 'mutation' allowing pandemic to arise.

'Mad Cow' was our baby. Only the Brits are mad enough to stuff their cattle full of food contaminated with human remains.....

We were lucky that H5N1 was spotted in 1997 or we may not have noticed the SARs outbreak (originally thought to be H5N1) quick enough to isolate/eradicate it. SARs is still in the far east but not within the human population but it shows you how 1 person can spread an illness globally over a few days.

Aids is a very difficult thing to acquire also. It does not last outside of the warmth of the body for long so needs to pass via bodily fluids, still ,for something that is such a bugger to transmit it isn't doing bad is it???

P.P. , stop muck throwing eh? there's a nice boy.

Edited February 25, 2008 by Gray-Wolf

[The PIT]

Pit, if we believe all we read H5N1 is a very difficult disease to catch at present! not may of us eat bird pooh or mess with infected entrails. The problem lies with those contracting it and enabling it to 'link up' with the flu virus we are all familiar with. The more bird Flu on the planet ,the more folk contract it ,the closer we are to the final 'mutation' allowing pandemic to arise.

'Mad Cow' was our baby. Only the Brits are mad enough to stuff their cattle full of food contaminated with human remains.....

We were lucky that H5N1 was spotted in 1997 or we may not have noticed the SARs outbreak (originally thought to be H5N1) quick enough to isolate/eradicate it. SARs is still in the far east but not within the human population but it shows you how 1 person can spread an illness globally over a few days.

Aids is a very difficult thing to acquire also. It does not last outside of the warmth of the body for long so needs to pass via bodily fluids, still ,for something that is such a bugger to transmit it isn't doing bad is it???

P.P. , stop muck throwing eh? there's a nice boy.

The things is you need perspectives, Very few catch it. Same with Sars but media frenzy and pharmaceutical companies created panic.

Yes we can spread disease quickly in the modern world but again nothing serious has happened. Stop worrying about remote chances. If you like to worry think about what may happen think about Yellowstone going up, more likely than dying of bird flu my friend.

[Gray-Wolf]

Todays news.

Girl in Egypt test positive for H5N1.Chinese woman dies of H5N1.New outbreak of H5N1 in China.Vietnamese woman dies of H5N1 infection.Pakistan reports H5N1 outbreak.Vietnam reports H5N1 outbreak.

That is all.

[Hiya]

'Mad Cow' was our baby. Only the Brits are mad enough to stuff their cattle full of food contaminated with human remains.....

Care to correct that or provide some sort evidence?

[Gray-Wolf]

I thought it common knowledge that the 'bonemeal' collected from the banks of the Ganges, and then sold on to our feed producers, included plenty of the partially cremated remains of our Hindi brothers and sisters.

Though fought about at the highest levels their seems little evidence that varient CJD arises without ingestion of a brain/stem from a contaminated human (as the south sea island blighted by varient CJD proves so well after they cerimonially ate a contaminated tribe member only to have the majority of the tribe then be taken with CJD.......in fact is the island not the made study area for varient CJD????).

If we persist in feeding animals to animals (scrape?) then what must we expect??

Edited February 26, 2008 by Gray-Wolf

[The PIT]

Todays news.

Girl in Egypt test positive for H5N1.Chinese woman dies of H5N1.New outbreak of H5N1 in China.Vietnamese woman dies of H5N1 infection.Pakistan reports H5N1 outbreak.Vietnam reports H5N1 outbreak.

That is all.

I wonder how many have died of pneumonia today???

Or died crossing a road.

Or died falling downstairs.

[snow raven]

Todays news.

Girl in Egypt test positive for H5N1.Chinese woman dies of H5N1.New outbreak of H5N1 in China.Vietnamese woman dies of H5N1 infection.Pakistan reports H5N1 outbreak.Vietnam reports H5N1 outbreak.

That is all.

Sorry GW, but I think I'll still sleep soundly in my bed tonight.

[Bobby]

I wonder how many have died of pneumonia today???

Or died crossing a road.

Or died falling downstairs.

A flu pandemic would be quite different to someone dying crossing the road. Anyway, I'm sure this isn't meant to be a debate thread.

[PersianPaladin]

A flu pandemic would be quite different to someone dying crossing the road. Anyway, I'm sure this isn't meant to be a debate thread.

What is it then?

Just Gray-Wolf posting by himself?

Seriously, if this is all this thread is then he might as well just have it as a personal blog and lock the thread.

Edited February 26, 2008 by PersianPaladin

[Bobby]

PP, before saying I'm not a "realist", that I "have no life", that I am always "doom mongering" (personal jibes are the always the last resort), at least explain why exactly that is so, and where I am wrong.

[The PIT]

PP, before saying I'm not a "realist", that I "have no life", that I am always "doom mongering" (personal jibes are the always the last resort), at least explain why exactly that is so, and where I am wrong.

And I'm just trying to create a bit of perspective to keep the scaremongering down.

[PersianPaladin]

And I'm just trying to create a bit of perspective to keep the scaremongering down.

We're all going to die one day anyway....so we might as well make the most of our life while we are here.

But that does NOT mean being overly selfish and indulgent and forgetting about future generations.

Humanity was not wiped out by the last flu-epidemic; and judging by great improvements in health standards, information transmission and awareness, technology, etc....I see an even less intense impact.

[The PIT]

We're all going to die one day anyway....so we might as well make the most of our life while we are here.

But that does NOT mean being overly selfish and indulgent and forgetting about future generations.

Humanity was not wiped out by the last flu-epidemic; and judging by great improvements in health standards, information transmission and awareness, technology, etc....I see an even less intense impact.

We're more likely to be badly damaged by a large Volcanic eruption than disease at the present time. Western society is heavily dependant on technology and very few us know what to do when the lights go out and stay out. For me the favourite to survive in that case are people living in places like Africa who are used to hard day to day living. Of course as the more advanced they become the more dependant on technology they become the chances of roughing it out become less.

At the moment diseases like bird flu should be looked at and researched but allowing the media to create panic isn't the way to handle it.

[Gray-Wolf]

We're more likely to be badly damaged by a large Volcanic eruption than disease at the present time. Western society is heavily dependant on technology and very few us know what to do when the lights go out and stay out. For me the favourite to survive in that case are people living in places like Africa who are used to hard day to day living. Of course as the more advanced they become the more dependant on technology they become the chances of roughing it out become less.

At the moment diseases like bird flu should be looked at and researched but allowing the media to create panic isn't the way to handle it.

I think you both need to imagine how you would feel if you had a wife and kids to protect through pandemic. Though the promise of Tamiflu and the like is given to ALL essential workers in Britain this does not include their families. How many folk will choose to protect their own family above state obligations?

It doesn't take too long to imagine the scale of absenteeism in these essential services and the impacts this will bring to the wider community. With over 1,000 cases per week presenting at local hospitals (WHO estimates) do you think they'll cope (you have more of an idea here than P.P. ,Pit), and fuel drivers? and food truck drivers?, National grid employee's?, Water?,Gas?.

For a few weeks you can expect major chaos as folk naturally choose family over duty.

Whatever 'pandemic' is the next up the developed world is far too specialised in nature not to run into a period of civil collapse at the onset. Again I'd suggest folk be aware of this and permanently carry enough to get through this 3/4 week period...........just in case!

[Hemlock]

What is it then?

Just Gray-Wolf posting by himself?

Seriously, if this is all this thread is then he might as well just have it as a personal blog and lock the thread.

Good idea PP

*Oh god, i've agreed with PP, i think i may be sick*

[0000]

Good idea PP

*Oh god, i've agreed with PP, i think i may be sick*

Knew Gray- Wolf would get the last laugh.It begins......................

[PersianPaladin]

Good idea PP

*Oh god, i've agreed with PP, i think i may be sick*

<_<

I think you both need to imagine how you would feel if you had a wife and kids to protect through pandemic. Though the promise of Tamiflu and the like is given to ALL essential workers in Britain this does not include their families. How many folk will choose to protect their own family above state obligations?

It doesn't take too long to imagine the scale of absenteeism in these essential services and the impacts this will bring to the wider community. With over 1,000 cases per week presenting at local hospitals (WHO estimates) do you think they'll cope (you have more of an idea here than P.P. ,Pit), and fuel drivers? and food truck drivers?, National grid employee's?, Water?,Gas?.

For a few weeks you can expect major chaos as folk naturally choose family over duty.

Whatever 'pandemic' is the next up the developed world is far too specialised in nature not to run into a period of civil collapse at the onset. Again I'd suggest folk be aware of this and permanently carry enough to get through this 3/4 week period...........just in case!

My 'wife' would look after herself and the kids imo.....

I'm not sure what world you live in....but you really do sound rather paranoid.

Edited March 4, 2008 by PersianPaladin