Carinthians Latest Arctic Ice Reports

[johnholmes]

wonderful, roll on mid January

[Richie V]

too cold mate, the Alps fine for me as long as the bone chilling easterlies don't occur. Try sitting on a chair lift at -15C, or lower! The swiss being so safety aware usually stop the lifts before those temps, even -10C and they warn you how cold it is.

Two years ago we went to Mt Tremblant, Ottawa, Canada. On the chairlift near the top it was -34c with a light breeze, terrifyingly cold on the face, frozen snot etc

[carinthian]

Two years ago we went to Mt Tremblant, Ottawa, Canada. On the chairlift near the top it was -34c with a light breeze, terrifyingly cold on the face, frozen snot etc

Hi Chassiot,

-34C that would be increadible cold. I remember ski-ing the back bowls of Lake Louise in the early 90s with a air temperatures of -22C and took me 30 minutes to defrost my specks in the refuge of the mountain restaurant.

C

[Michael Fishermans Friend]

Just read a column in todays Sunday Telegraph about the rapid extent of Ice recovery this year, up by about 30% on this time last year. All good news.

[carinthian]

Just read a column in todays Sunday Telegraph about the rapid extent of Ice recovery this year, up by about 30% on this time last year. All good news.

Hi Timmy,

I know that The North Barent has twice as much ice as this time last year and the Beaufort Sea is showing rapid ice cover. All in all very good news.

C

[reef]

We're getting close to the 1971-2000 mean according to this data. The ice extent hasnt touched 'average' at any point in any year since Spring 2003.

http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IM...current.365.jpg

Positive, but the seas to our direct North arent doing massively well as usual. The Kara, Barent and Greenland seas make up almost the entire negative anomoly.

Edited November 16, 2008 by reef

[phil nw.]

We're getting close to the 1971-2000 mean according to this data. The ice extent hasnt touched 'average' at any point in any year since Spring 2003.

http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IM...current.365.jpg

Positive, but the seas to our direct North arent doing massively well as usual. The Kara, Barent and Greenland seas make up almost the entire negative anomoly.

Here`s the latest picture.

More snowcover too.

[Michael Fishermans Friend]

Going by those contrast satellite images I'd say about 10% increase, and as you have said Phil n. warks - that the seas to our north over the Arctic are still ice free and also snowcover over western Russia and Scandanavia is noticeably scant compared to last year. I believe Moscow has only experienced 1 brief snowfall this autumn!!

[Mr Maunder]

Going by those contrast satellite images I'd say about 10% increase, and as you have said Phil n. warks - that the seas to our north over the Arctic are still ice free and also snowcover over western Russia and Scandanavia is noticeably scant compared to last year. I believe Moscow has only experienced 1 brief snowfall this autumn!!

The area east of Svalbard shows a significant increase on last year. It is currently cold in the Kara, Barents and Greenland areas and projections are for the ice to continue to increase here - so I'm expecting a reasonable outcome in these areas this winter.

Yes, you are right about the snow cover - but I expect a very different picture by this time next week (fingers crossed!).

MM

[frozencanals]

Hi Folks

Looking at Scaninavia and the Finnish web cams as I do every day it is nice to see the temps inside the arctic circle dropping into the -20 degree area, which we just did not see at this time last year or the year before, snow cover is starting to build across Scaninavia and northern Russia, though I note that outside the artic circle we are still only around -4 or -5 degrees with very thin snow cover. Hopefully the cold will dive further south over the next few days....

Cheers

FC

[len]

No-one has remarked on the massive lack of usual snow cover in W. Russia (So Northerlies are better than Easterlies?)

http://climate.rutgers.edu/snowcover/chart...18&ui_set=2 (ANOMALIES)

http://www.rap.ucar.edu/weather/surface/snowNESDISnh.gif (COVER)

And the Ice growth has gone into reverse……

http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IM...current.365.jpg

Especially the Barents

http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IM...m.region.6.html

Len

Edited November 20, 2008 by len

[oldsnowywizard]

hi Len,

snow cover agreed its poor, however things are likley to change.. the cold airmasses have kept over the eastern side of Russia and Siberia.. very cold temps here -40s..

as for ice.. CT has a lag of about 7 days on it for those charts... the latest situation isnt too bad...

there will alwasy be variations in sea ice, due to wind, tides, mild air, cold air etc etc... Barents is doing better than last year remember.

http://www.ijis.iarc.uaf.edu/en/home/seaice_extent.htm

http://www.nsidc.colorado.edu/data/seaice_index/daily.html

[AtlanticFlamethrower]

These imageshack links are intended for use on forums.

Here's a comparison 2007 to 2008 of Arctic polar temperature at 850hpa 27 November. As you can see, there is support for the increase in sea ice we have observed this year: it is colder.

2007

2008

[oldsnowywizard]

850 temps are forecast to get colder as well doing a comparison perhaps similar kind of temps to 2000 and 2003, although this year, if the forecast is right, there are more widespread -30 temps.

chuckchi has just frozen over completely according to the alaskan weather center... we just seem to be a bit down in Barents and hudson on the mean....

ice extent is still above last years levels, although down on the mean, much of the ice now is between 30 and 200 cms thick doing much better than last year see below...

http://www.aari.nw.ru/clgmi/sea_charts/nor...008/n081124.gif

[carinthian]

Thanks for the update OSW.

Last weeks picture of sea ice in The Denmark Strait beween Greenland and Iceland. Latest reports indicates about 50 miles off the NW Coast of Iceland. How close the ice gets to" bridging" the gap depends of a variety of reasons. The main influences are atmospheric and salinity values. The East Greenland Current now starts to transport a lot of sea ice southwards. Last January some of the ice made its way into the inlets of the NW coast, the first reports for a long time. However, this years ice already closer as the picture shows.

C

[Mondy]

Must've been "warm" in 1995 too

[AtlanticFlamethrower]

That image from 1995 shows a shortfall in the Bering Sea area compared to the most recent chart. Localised warm synoptics.

Other biggest difference 1995/now is that much of the shallow Hudson Bay area had already frozen over. Other than that it's fairly similar, what you would expect since Arctic Ice area is just 500k short of average.

Edited November 28, 2008 by AtlanticFlamethrower

[Mondy]

Yep, but the good old NW Passage, much championed this year by the "warming lobby" as being "open for the first time ever" sure has covered over compared to 1995. That's another biggest difference, overlooked.

[Cymro]

Looks rather good how will this bode for the summer months next year though do you reckon? When was the last time above average ice was recorded? And is it possible?

Sorry i'm a novice to all this but have a real interest.

[jethro]

This may seem like a daft question, apologies if I'm being really dense...

How often does it snow in the Arctic? Do seasonal differences occur? Is it a very cold, but very dry place or is there a fair amount of regular snow fall?

[BARRY]

yes this is barrow and the temperture is -27c

This may seem like a daft question, apologies if I'm being really dense...

How often does it snow in the Arctic? Do seasonal differences occur? Is it a very cold, but very dry place or is there a fair amount of regular snow fall?

[jethro]

Thanks for that Barry but I'm still puzzled over the amount/regularity of snowfall??

This isn't the place to discuss this but a brief explanation of why I ask.... there's lots of talk/speculation about soot deposits, particularly from Asia+China, impacting upon the ice cover due to blackened snow not reflecting sunlight back into space, thus absorbing and retaining more heat. I can see the logic in that reasoning if snow fall is irregular or in small quantities but it doesn't make much sense, if fresh, white snow is replenished on a regular basis. Hence wondering, how much/how often does it snow up there?

Any stats available anywhere?

[osmposm]

Yep, but the good old NW Passage, much championed this year by the "warming lobby" as being "open for the first time ever" sure has covered over compared to 1995. That's another biggest difference, overlooked.

Er...no...the direct Deep Water NW Passage opened last year for the first time since satellite records began in 1979, and did so again this summer. The long, public history of the great search for it also suggests it had not done so for many of hundreds of years before that - certainly no-one in a largish ship ever managed it, though it is possible that it was achieved by Vikings in shallow-draught boats.

And DXR, I am completely confused by the rest of your post. Are you saying that the NW Passages - deep or shallow - had not covered over by now in 1995? They're certainly fully iced up in that Cryosphere comparison image you posted above - and as far as I know the Canadian Archipelago, and the passages through it, always freeze up every winter. Nobody's suggested that will change in the foreseeable future. What 'another biggest difference, overlooked' are you referring to?

For what it's worth, it looks as if even in the summer of 1995 the shallow serpentine routes around the islands didn't fully open up, let alone the deep water one.

Ossie

Edited November 29, 2008 by osmposm

[AtlanticFlamethrower]

Any stats available anywhere?

No direct stats but some observation here.

Wetterzentral > Top Karten > GFS > N-Hemisphere > Niederslag

It looks like PPN increases toward the periphery of the Arctic Circle, periphery being wherever the ice pack edge is when there is a substantial amount of ice.

[carinthian]

This may seem like a daft question, apologies if I'm being really dense...

How often does it snow in the Arctic? Do seasonal differences occur? Is it a very cold, but very dry place or is there a fair amount of regular snow fall?

Hello Jethro,

The air of winter is so cold as to be incapable of holding much moisture. However, the number of days in which snow falls is surprisingly frequent. There are 65 days with snow in the year at Irkutsk and credited with a total precipitation of only 3inches. The snowfall tend to be intermittent and strong winds whip the powery snow for miles and only to expose an bare ice mantle.

C