Who's Looking Forward To Spring

[Thundery wintry showers]

Yesterday and this morning from an IMBY perspective produced the kind of weather that I guess many people in here have been referring to- dull cold damp and windy with drizzly rain and the odd bit of sleet mixed in. It was very unpleasant to be out and about in and I would certainly take "warm rain" over that stuff.

However, it's a different story over many other parts of the country- this dull damp drizzly weather tends to be associated with frontal zones and to the north of the train of Atlantic fronts conditions are much clearer. This brighter weather has recently spread south into Norwich giving us some sunny intervals.

[StewieEatWorld]

I'm not looking forward to spring due to the fact that I see it as the most pointless time of year, along with autumn. Nothing happens! Besides rain and temperatures that are neither warm or cold. However, I am looking forward to spring because it brings us closer to summer!

[Nick L]

I'm not looking forward to spring due to the fact that I see it as the most pointless time of year, along with autumn. Nothing happens! Besides rain and temperatures that are neither warm or cold. However, I am looking forward to spring because it brings us closer to summer!

I disagree about that. Spring can be a crazy season, especially late March/early April where one week it could be pleasantly warm (temps into the high teens) and the following week could have an Arctic blast. Also you get strong convective potential bringing hefty showers.

Still, nothing beats winter!

[Thundery wintry showers]

Backing up Nick2702's post, not a lot happened last spring, but the same certainly wasn't true in 2008. In April, I recorded 17.2C in Cleadon on the 3rd, but there was a max of just 5.1C on the 6th, and a two-inch snow cover there the next morning.

I was down in Norwich at the time, where we only got dustings from the snow of the 6th/7th, but then ten days of "sunshine and showers" followed with some dramatic convection. Thunder occurred on 3 days during this spell and one of those days had a big hailstorm that covered the campus.

In a variable spring it can be summer-like one week and wintry the next.

[Nick L]

Backing up Nick2702's post, not a lot happened last spring, but the same certainly wasn't true in 2008. In April, I recorded 17.2C in Cleadon on the 3rd, but there was a max of just 5.1C on the 6th, and a two-inch snow cover there the next morning.

I was down in Norwich at the time, where we only got dustings from the snow of the 6th/7th, but then ten days of "sunshine and showers" followed with some dramatic convection. Thunder occurred on 3 days during this spell and one of those days had a big hailstorm that covered the campus.

In a variable spring it can be summer-like one week and wintry the next.

Absolutely. That April event gave me more snow than the whole of winter 2007/08 put together. Granted it only lasted for a few hours when the sun got going, but still got 4/5 inches out of it. I remember going to Wembley to watch us play in the Cup semi-final and it was quite pleasant, comfortable t-shirt weather. By the time we got home we had snow flurries! Mad season, spring.

[Thundery wintry showers]

The main reason why spring can be such a variable season is because the jetstream tends to be weaker than at other times of the year, and so blocking highs are a more prominent feature of the weather. The blocking highs may shift in position from one week to the next giving quite an "episodic" pattern.

The biggest switch-arounds from warm to cold tend to happen when you have an anticyclone over the British Isles, or perhaps to the east or south, which then heads to the N, NW or W, or alternatively retreats SE while a new high builds behind it. This throws the weather from warm dry sunny summer-like conditions to wintry showers in the space of as little as a couple of days.

It can also happen the other way around, typically when a block to the W or NW "topples" south-eastwards and a northerly regime is followed by an abrupt shift to westerlies and then southerlies. An extreme case of this occurred in early June 1975. June is also prone to this kind of variability, because it isn't usually until late June or July that the jet gets going and "episodic" weather becomes more rare.

I think this is also a large part of the reason why spring tends to be associated with "April showers". A slow-moving cyclonic regime will often tend to be bright and showery, whereas a mobile one tends to have embedded fronts in the airflow bringing cloudier weather and lighter, more persistent rainfall.

[StewieEatWorld]

I disagree about that. Spring can be a crazy season, especially late March/early April where one week it could be pleasantly warm (temps into the high teens) and the following week could have an Arctic blast. Also you get strong convective potential bringing hefty showers.

Still, nothing beats winter!

Completely blows my knowledge out of the water! Haha! I suppose I just love the winter cold and summer sun more than the other two seasons. But you got a point about the showers, although my knowledge only refers to them as april showers :huh:

[Thundery wintry showers]

Just a thought: imagine how "convective" and thundery our summers could be if July and August were traditionally characterised by "episodic" blocking patterns rather than variants of the "northerly tracking jet and Azores High" setup...

[AderynCoch]

Absolutely. That April event gave me more snow than the whole of winter 2007/08 put together.

The ONLY snow I got that winter. I couldn't believe my luck!

April 1981 was interesting - it started off quite warm but the last week of the month saw blizzards and huge snow drifts over much of southern Britain.

Edited February 19, 2010 by AderynCoch

[Milhouse]

I love spring. For me it means the emergence of fresh new growth, the rapidly lenghening days and the first chance to get outside and do things that havent been possible over the winter. It isnt quite the time for summer heat but it almost feels like it after months of cold, more so this year i feel.

By the end of summer i sence an air of decay about everything. The leaves are starting to turn, the wasps are out and i find myself wishing it was Spring again. Its such a lovely fresh and clean time of the year.

[mushymanrob]

come of it Ian-Mushy is simply expressing his opinion - not doing what you accuse him of, and as such is just as entitled as any cold lover to his view.

In truth, apart from a few lucky spots south of the Border and the hillier areas of Scotland, what most have is, in my view, if I may be allowed to express it, much as Mushy describes-not what anyone wants.

Not mild with some spring sunshine and maybe a few showers

not really wintry with copious snow, frost at night and sunshine-or am I misquoting views of the weather?

thank you for that john, that is exactly what i was refering too.

Saying it's "not what anyone wants" is implying that nobody wants it and therefore projecting an opinion onto everyone else, surely?

I don't mind the current outlook for East Anglia at all- to be pedantic I may not necessarily "want" it, but it does offer a fair mix of weather. And if I was living pretty much anywhere in Scotland, Northern Ireland or north-west England I would definitely be looking forward to the upcoming weather, offering crisp sunshine, a few wintry showers, and some night frosts. In simple terms I don't like being told that a weather type pleases no-one when it pleases myself.

And today in Norwich it's sunny, and feels quite warm out in the sun.

Some people appreciate types of weather other than the extremes of copiously wintry and mild & sunny, and are surely entitled to appreciate them- just like Mushy sometimes does with ordinary Atlantic-dominated winter weather.

when i posted the offending post, all we were having was dull, overcast, raw, miserable weather across the a large swathe of the country. now to the best of my knowlege that weather type isnt liked by anyone! in fact im the only one who doesnt mind abit of acg in winter! a sunny cold crisp weather type wasnt on offer, neither was any real snow, nor any sun/mild.. so i dont think i was particually 'wrong' in saying "this weather type suits no one" as we are broadly, but perhaps not exclusively, looking for either snow or spring.

..anyway, im fed up with the cold... its going to cost me about £1k atm in lost earnings, on my wage that almost certainly rules out a summer holiday and/or delays further home improvements next winter by a year...

[Mark Bayley]

I think today's an ideal day, sunny with patchy cloud. Temps around 4c, 5c I am looking forward to the first 15c, 16c day though...

[Derp Patrol]

Any bets for the first 15C of the year then? My guess is March 9th

[Thundery wintry showers]

when i posted the offending post, all we were having was dull, overcast, raw, miserable weather across the a large swathe of the country. now to the best of my knowlege that weather type isnt liked by anyone! in fact im the only one who doesnt mind abit of acg in winter! a sunny cold crisp weather type wasnt on offer, neither was any real snow, nor any sun/mild.. so i dont think i was particually 'wrong' in saying "this weather type suits no one" as we are broadly, but perhaps not exclusively, looking for either snow or spring.

..anyway, im fed up with the cold... its going to cost me about £1k atm in lost earnings, on my wage that almost certainly rules out a summer holiday and/or delays further home improvements next winter by a year...

There may have been a misunderstanding- your post came across as referring to the broad spectrum of weather that is cold but doesn't have real snow, as opposed to specifically dull raw overcast weather (which wasn't affecting Scotland, or Norwich from an IMBY perspective, at the time of the post, but Norwich soon joined in the next day lol!). As it happens I don't know anyone who particularly relishes dull overcast raw weather either, and I must say I found Thursday 18th in Norwich particularly unpleasant to be out in.

On the other hand the current sort of "cold but without real snow" weather- sunny spells, not too windy, chance of scattered wintry showers- does attract some people including myself. However I must say that next week is looking particularly dull and damp and raw for the southern third of England, albeit more "interesting" further north.

The other problem is when people say "spring"- I always used to think of "spring" as meaning lengthening daylight and sunshine hours, erratically increasing temperatures and more blocked/episodic type patterns, but most on here seem to take it to mean "warm and settled".

[Ben_Cambs]

Any bets for the first 15C of the year then? My guess is March 9th

I would say the 25th of March or around that time, March is never a particulary warm month, the average for London is 10C, one day it can be very pleasant outside and quite warm but the next day it can be very cold. I expect a slightly below average March, the first 20C day in the Spring probably wont be until Mid-late April though

[Thundery wintry showers]

I think the other issue is what we mean by "Spring". Until I joined Net-Weather, I always thought of spring as the time of year when the daylight lengthens, sunshine hours increase, temperatures rise erratically, flowers come into leaf, and a greater frequency of episodic/blocked patterns arises due to the weaker Atlantic. By that measure I am definitely in spring mode now. The increased warmth of the sun is clearly noticable and it is great that it is no longer getting dark by 4pm, and those spells of weather of sunshine and 15C are most likely no more than a month or two away.

However on N-W "Spring" often seems to mean "persistently warm with no more snow until next winter" and sometimes more specifically "warm and settled", which is more a perception of an ideal spring (for many) rather than what meteorological spring in the UK is really about- and by that measure I doubt I'll ever enter spring mode. So my current answer to the thread's title must be, "it depends on how you define Spring".

[DaBrigg]

However on N-W "Spring" often seems to mean "persistently warm with no more snow until next winter" and sometimes more specifically "warm and settled", which is more a perception of an ideal spring (for many) rather than what meteorological spring in the UK is really about-

Couldn't agree more, and I really dread to think what the mood in this place will be like if we get cold weather continuing into March!

The volatility and wild swings in temperature from week to week is something I always associated with Spring.

We can also experience a great diurnal range in temps.

In Spring you can get sunburnt while hiking on snow-covered mountains, and cold frosty mornings can give way to genuinely warm afternoon sunshine.

Just to echo a post I made near the start of this thread, I do look forward to Spring, but "Spring" as in mid-April onwards,when the sun really starts getting strong, and the evenings lengthen radically.

I enjoyed the warm weather in Mid-March last year, but I equally enjoy late season wintry blasts.

From a IMBY perspective, as a coastal dweller low SSTs can really help the cold deliver in March, in a way that it often fails to in December or January. So, cold weather in March, or even early April, is OK with me.

Edited February 20, 2010 by DaBrigg

[Derp Patrol]

I don't think that anybody expects warm, settled weather throughout Spring.. it's just what most people want. Much like most people want 5 months of 30C and sunshine from May to September.

I think that once this cold weather gets out of the way, Spring will start to show itself. In a few weeks when temperatures down here recover to average at about 11C, it will be a shock to the system, as I can't remember a winter down here that has recorded so few days in double figures temperature wise.

What I expect from Spring IMBY is a slow but steady warm up. March is a funny old month, it can deliver pleasant sunny days with temperatures into the mid teens, or cold snaps. By April, the chance of snow here is basically gone, and by now I would start looking out for the first 20C. It can still be chilly on some days, but rarely below 10C. By May, on most days it almost feels like summer, and if antyclonic conditions persist, it can get hot, as the nights are now short and the the threat of frosts have gone. Usually I expect at least 1 warm settled spell in May.. last year and the year before we almost reached 30C

[mushymanrob]

spring to me is of course lengthening daylight, rising temps but very few springs ive witnessed did the cold go and stay away until the next winter...so whilst id be glad to see the back of frosts ... thats an unrealistic proposition. spring weather is varied.

[johnholmes]

I suspect before very long it will be spring is from xx date to xx date, no it isn't-yes it is-etc etc.

Meteorological spring is 1 March-31 May but then the weather can give all 4 seasons in that period, so we simply have to take what comes.

Again in terms of statistics that are going to be coherent with the rest of the meteorological observations in the northern hemisphere then we have to abide by the WMO/Met O definition. Much the same as to have any sensible discussion about 'winter', summer' or 'autumn' we have to keep to the meteorological definition.

That is not to say we cannot have winter type weather through the official spring or even summer like conditions.

Edited February 20, 2010 by johnholmes

[ScotchEgg78]

I am practicly crying out for warmer weather now.

I used to be such a now lover, now I run my own business it just gets in the way of work and of course play (golf).

I keep checking here now everyday for the "From next week its warmer and thats the back of winter for 8 months..."

[Rollo]

Warmer days are certainly beginnig to appeal after this long winter,however, I feel that winter has some way to go yet before any lasting warmth will be felt,we have been spoilt in recent years with relatively early springs. Back in the sixties in my youth I would often travel about and even at easter snow would fall on more than the odd occasion.

[MP-R]

Just out of interest, what is statistically the most unsettled spring month? I always though March seeing as most of the years since 2000 have seen quite an active Atlantic: 2001, 2004, 2006, 2008 with periods of it in 2003, 2007 and 2009. I always associated a more blocked February giving way to March coming in like a lion and lasting for smoe time.

[reef]

Just out of interest, what is statistically the most unsettled spring month? I always though March seeing as most of the years since 2000 have seen quite an active Atlantic: 2001, 2004, 2006, 2008 with periods of it in 2003, 2007 and 2009. I always associated a more blocked February giving way to March coming in like a lion and lasting for smoe time.

According to Philip Eden's figures, westerliness generally decreases as you go through the spring. March is generally around 7 on average on his index, but there was a marked increase from the mid-80s onwards. April averages about 5 with little change in recent years and May is around 2.5.

http://www.climate-uk.com/indices/03.htm

http://www.climate-uk.com/indices/04.htm

http://www.climate-uk.com/indices/05.htm

Anticyclonicity also increases as you go through the season though March is actually statistically more likely to be southerly than either April or May.

[MP-R]

According to Philip Eden's figures, westerliness generally decreases as you go through the spring. March is generally around 7 on average on his index, but there was a marked increase from the mid-80s onwards. April averages about 5 with little change in recent years and May is around 2.5.

http://www.climate-uk.com/indices/03.htm

http://www.climate-uk.com/indices/04.htm

http://www.climate-uk.com/indices/05.htm

Anticyclonicity also increases as you go through the season though March is actually statistically more likely to be southerly than either April or May.

Very interesting. Thanks for your reply.