Why Do Some Feel It's Wrong To Like Severe Weather?

[laserguy]

It's December 26. It's sunny and it's warm. That to me is extreme and severe weather,and I absolutely hate it.

[Terminal Moraine]

To be honest, I think weather forecasting models have become so accurate today (though many in Joe public would probably disagree with me) much of the expectation and excitement has been lost for me. In some aspects it can be wonderful to look at the models and see what’s coming 3 or 4 days ahead.

Take the storm modelled for Wednesday for instance, it’s not even formed yet, and we are informed that most areas over the north will probably be hit by winds exceeding 80 mph, while down here, just a bit of breeze up the channel. People are disappointed / relieved / excited / worried before the event has been born. While it’s good to get warned of severe weather, to me there is nothing better than the element of surprise and enjoying the now. Us cold fans often see a cold spell projected on the models, yet before it’s even arrived, we see the end of it and a replacement to milder conditions, then were fed up before we can build our enjoyment lol

Apart from alienating my self from the TV / radio / news papers and people and becoming a complete hermit, there is no escape.

Agree entirely with that, Paul. We have so much information at our fingertips we are almost always living in the meteorological future rather than the present and it's all too easy to become over enthusiastic about potentially exciting weather which hasn't even begun to develop and to be disappointed when the reality turns out to be different.

I would think the number of times, annually, that I'm suprised by the weather turning out to be more extreme/interesting/exciting than I expected it to be can be counted on the fingers of one mittened hand. Contrast this to the 50s and 60s, even into the 70s when the only information came from the weather forecasts on the tv or radio and' surprise events' were much more commonplace.

Nevertheless, despite the number of 'let down's resulting from knowing too much too early, it hasn't dampened my enthusiasm for extreme events and I'll still be willing that depression on Wednesday to track about 200 miles further south than currently appears likely.

[Phil UK]

I think that looking at this in the grander scheme of things, some parts of the world are prone to severe weather extremities. Take 2011 as a whole as an example... The most deadly tornadoes in the US, floods in the Far East, even in the UK this month, records were broken and I'll use the example of the first three days of October where in the area I live reached 28.2ºc on 2nd. That was probably the second highest recorded temperature for the entire Spring/Summer going by my local records. Extreme for the time of year.

I myself like extreme or unusual weather but as long as no-one gets injured or at worst, cost lives. Let's go back to October 1987 where the Met Office monumentally screwed up with the south east hurricane* that claimed lives and untold damage. Now if that had been at its peak during evening rush hour then I don't even want to think about the potential for injuries or fatalities.

Earlier this month, a wind gust speed of 165mph in the Cairngorms. I saw that and thought it was a typo error initially until confirmed a day later. And another thing to add. Some of these guys and gals on this very forum fly some 3,000 odd miles in April/May to LOOK for severe weather, al la thunderstorms, supercells and tornados. In a sense, severe weather is a, and to use that old analogy... Like Marmite, you either love it or hate it.

*It was actually a severe storm but I'd have said maybe a category 3 if speaking in hurricane terms and Michael Fish... My words would be why did they shoot the messenger that day? You were just doing your job but those in authority should have known better.

Phil.

[milkmaid]

i enjoy the power ,but tend to use this as an information forum ,it's great for that

i need to know what's coming to stay safe ,

i've had a lot of damage done over the last few years due to the wind ,and as it's happening i hate it ,gives you a horrible sick feeling in the pit of your stomach ,there is no reason not to enjoy it ,i know cookie does

and he's experienced the same storms as we have ,i like being out in it ,it's the damage i don't like,and the noise and house shaking

and to be honest it does dismay me a bit when the metoffice doesn't warn us ,we had a neighbor and several other people phone them not long ago and they up graded us to an amber ,

life here tends to go on as normal up to about 90 mph and you can walk in it ,just a bit of an angle and watching for flying objects

i do feel for people in poorer areas of the world ,who don't have access to the computer and have to rely on official warnings as they normally are far short except in certain areas

[Aaron]

What a fine post, TWS. If we ever come close to the situation outlined in your first paragraph I will be booking an appointment at my nearest Dignitas hospital but, thankfully, being able to control the weather with any degree of certainty as to the outcome seems highly unlikely, at least within my lifetime.

Maybe in the future, everyone will have their own weather-controlliing devices? I could have 10 foot snow drifts in my back yard and my neighbour could have a heatwave. :lol:

I imagine that if the authorities could control the weather, we'd probably end up with bucketloads of the so-called "usable" weather (as described on TV broadcasts) that Terminal Moraine sometimes laments about. There would be some belts of light to moderate frontal rain or drizzle, mostly in winter, to help keep water supplies going, and at other times it would be dry with some sunny intervals and patches of stratocumulus. Temperatures would remain rooted to the seasonal average all year round, with mean maxima of 13C in January rising to 22C in July.

Some people might see that as an "ideal" sort of climate on the face of it, but I imagine that the majority of even non-enthusiasts would get very bored with it after a while. After all, notable weather events generate talking points and some (heatwaves, snow events and thunderstorms being obvious examples) are appreciated by many non-enthusiasts.

The analogy with motorsport is quite a good one. One could argue that wishing for a cut-throat F1 race with plenty of overtaking moves and incidents is effectively wishing increased risk relative to wishing for a processional race, but it's not something that viewers can control, and in any case, up to a point the increased risk is at least offset by the increased excitement for both viewers and competitors. Sometimes, sadly, the risk results in serious injuries, as per Kubica and Massa recently- but if they were to stifle racing to the extent necessary to eliminate risk of injuries then motorsport would just collapse. Indeed, sometimes people get thrills out of danger in itself, which applies both to motorsport and extreme weather events.

True. Most people want 4 seasons.

[La Bise]

I like cold, real cold and snow. I put my money where my mouth is and go out to seek it, on mountains, hills, moorlands. I even spend the night up there on occasion (I certainly did not miss out on the chance of camping in the hills last week-end...). I know how disagreable it can be when your body is weakened (in my case due to my own choice of exhausting myself up there) and you feel as if the cold is seeping through every pore of your being. It can be quite daunting, particularly in the dark. Most people don't like cold, even those who like it do tend to do so in small doses, it's one thing spending 36 hours in below freezing temperatures, it's another stepping out of the house for a stroll by the local park...

Why do I do it? Because it is exhilirating, it makes you feel alive and connected to your surroundings. Most people rather not have to suffer any kind of hardship, life in most cases bring enough of those without extreme weather brining its share of misery, particularly in places where "benign" is how you could best define our surroundings and weather conditions.

I do find people annoyed at seeing an extreme weather being "downgraded" quite ghoulish, particularly because in most cases they'll be tucked away in their house/bedroom looking at charts on a computer, far away from any danger. It seems nothing but virtual excitement...

Yes, the weather does not have any morals, it will happen, whatever we do or wish, but what is within our capacity is empathy for people who will suffer from the consequences of any extreme weather event. It seems in short supply sometimes, when the desire to see stonking charts overide any other desire.

[syed2878]

Happy newyear every1. Good thread jane. I love harsh weather i don't think any of us here would want to c death and distruction. I love storms and snow. as long as we folow all safety guidelines i can't c y we shouldn't enjoy mother nature in her full glory. I stayed in temps of 40-50c strong wind psyclone when i was on 3months holiday in bangladesh with my parents. Even got throwen out of bed in an earthquate when i was there.

[Lynxus]

12 hours out - stay at home ( albeit a structurally built one as arguments also exist around this ! )

What annoys me, Is the "take action" And Stay at home comments you get from the metoffice / tv..

If it was backed by the gov saying. IF YOU GET A RED WARNING IN YOUR AREA or a "Stay at home" then you are allowed to NOT go to work, However this means you MUST stay at home / in a safe place during the period and no shopping / going to the gym..

The problem being, Ill get half fired if I turn round and say, cant come in, It might snow / rain / get breezy.

Anyway..

Severe weather.

I LOVE it,

I love the thrill of it

I love the fact that it can kill

I love it because its different each and every time.

Its great fun to watch, Get out in it and even just monitor it online.

People go diving, They might get eaten by a shark

People slide down hills on a little board in the hope that they dont fall over and kill themselves.

I just say tuff to people who whine about the dangers of the weather and that its "stupid" to like it because it kills people..

You cant change that fact that its going to happen. If you dont like it, Go lock yourself in a small room underground. OR you could embrace it and actually live a little.

[Thundery wintry showers]

...

Yes, the weather does not have any morals, it will happen, whatever we do or wish, but what is within our capacity is empathy for people who will suffer from the consequences of any extreme weather event. It seems in short supply sometimes, when the desire to see stonking charts overide any other desire.

I think the main reason why many people get so hung up on upgrades/downgrades is that they are craving some kind of "exciting" weather and so when it shows on the models, they really get their hopes up, and it is followed by the utmost despair when the models ditch the idea. I think "lack of empathy" is a significant issue, but it goes well beyond lack of empathy for sufferers- it can be difficult to post in the Model Output Discussion if you're interested in other types of weather. It always annoys me in summer when I get excited over probable showery/thundery spells with slack slow moving lows, open up the Model Output Discussion, and find three pages of posts that give no information other than, "unsettled dross to T+264 then a sustained settled spell showing on the GFS after T+264".

However, there is a difference between respecting that other people have different points of view, and having to feel guilty for expressing enjoyment of extreme/dramatic weather.

Often the view that enjoying severe/dramatic weather is "selfish" is inconsistently applied, i.e. it is considered "selfish" only if the desire is considered "different". For instance, the desire for a summer drought with heatwaves is considered relatively "normal" and therefore people are less likely to be branded "selfish" for wanting a repeat of Summer 1976 (although it does occasionally happen). Hoping for snow and thunderstorms is deemed "different" and thus gets rather less leeway. The common view in the MOD that it is selfish to enjoy snow during March-May but relatively OK at other times of the year is another stark example. This fact does rather undermine the "selfishness" argument.

[knocker]

Happy newyear every1. Good thread jane. I love harsh weather i don't think any of us here would want to c death and distruction. I love storms and snow. as long as we folow all safety guidelines i can't c y we shouldn't enjoy mother nature in her full glory. I stayed in temps of 40-50c strong wind psyclone when i was on 3months holiday in bangladesh with my parents. Even got throwen out of bed in an earthquate when i was there.

Just as well you weren't there in 1970 when cyclone Bhola hit and 500.000 people lost their lives. One of the worst natural disasters in modern times.

[chionomaniac]

Just as well you weren't there in 1970 when cyclone Bhola hit and 500.000 people lost their lives. One of the worst natural disasters in modern times.

I suspect that might have been a little tricky as it occured 8 years before Syed was born.

[Jane Louise]

Interesting opinions thanks for sharing all!

[Mesoscale]

Some very interresting posts in here, I love severe weather sometimes it scares me but im only human I can't control it, I can't control the out come so why not enjoy it? if people die its sad and I don't wish that on anyone but even if I didn't enjoy severe weather people would still die, so why not just appreciate the power. This arguement could be said about anything. Many people enjoy their job, people die all the time when doing their job but does that mean the people who enjoy there job should stop enjoying it? no is the simple answer. People choose their profession, death in the work place is preventable so does enjoying your job make it worse then enjoying severe weather?

People die in the Uk because they just arn't prepared for weather, why should they be we don't get half of what people in other countries get even across the channel they get far worse weather then us.

Enjoy the weather as much as you like, it makes an amazing change to the slog of day to day life.

Its a shame we dont get enough of it in the uk, then maybe people wouldn't die during these events because they will be prepared for them.

Edited January 12, 2012 by Mesoscale

[Liam J]

Day to day life is filled with hazards that can cause harm, we all cross the road, many of us drive cars and drive along roads in these four wheeled metal cans travelling at 70mph+ and in the wrong situation these can quickly become dangerous weapons capable of murder with 40000 serious road crashes each year in the UK, yes human error, so the biggest hazard to us during day to day life is each other? Looking at that statistic how many people are going stop driving because they might crash and become injured or die? Not many but no doubt a small minority will.

Compared to other countries around the world I don't think living in the UK with our climate is likely to pose much of threat to life from mother nature, our little island escapes hurricanes, major flooding, drought, severe cold, devastating tornados & wildfires. We get away with quite timid weather in comparison, but that doesn't mean we don't experience severe weather because we do and to us it is severe as we haven't experienced extreme weather on say the scale of a cat 5 hurricane level.

It's not wrong to feel the buzz and excitement that a severe weather event can bring, just like I won't let anything take the enjoyment out of my driving or stepping out of my front door everyday to carry out the duties of life whatever they happen to be. Take precautions and look after yourself as best you can, if you choose to venture out in severe weather conditions that actually pose a risk then thats your own choice to make and risk to take fully understanding the repercussions for your decisions. people who unfortunately die from weather related incidents in the UK are not prepared and are totally unaware of the risks, also like many things they don't expect it will ever happen to them in a million years, but we are far more likely to be injured or die of other causes than anything the weather cares to throw at us here in Britain.

Edited January 13, 2012 by Liam J

[Aaron]

Fantastic post Liam

[Jane Louise]

All great posts thank you.

I agree what most have said regards severe weather there is always a threat of every day dangers anyway no matter what we do . And weather is a natural phenomena and there's nothing we can do about it but to be cautious and use common- sense especially if needing to go out in it etc .

I think Liam, you've practically summed up what I would of said.

[Just Before Dawn]

I think that it's a little naive to come onto a website given over to the weather and be surprised when people are excited by severe weather. That said, for those of us working in emergency planning or the emergency services, we do see people having the worst days of their lives in some cases as a result of the weather - and no-one can entirely prepare for, for example, the situation that saw the widespread flooding in 2007. It's not the fault of the householder under a foot of dirty water because his street drains weren't designed to cope with that degree of rainfall.

All that said, I certainly wouldn't take offence at anyone who loved a good blow or a foot of snow - I'm the same. The vast majority seem perfectly able to seperate out the event and the human cost - Some of us look at a deep storm system and think about the excitement, and some are trying to work out if it's likely to result in a storm surge or 12 hours of continual gritting on dangerous roads and how long a shift they're likely to be working - I try not to be snippy about it but if it occasionally peeks through, you now know why!

[knocker]

And I think that it's a little naive to come onto a website given over to the weather and find that some have a different opinion than you and still be interested in the weather, Extreme heat is severe weather and a natural phenomenon that we cannot alter. We can alter how we handle it from a social point of view but that's about it. I just happen to think anyone who wishes for, or likes, extreme heat with a high heat index is ready to be measured for a white coat.

Heat is the number one weather-related killer in the United States, resulting in hundreds of fatalities each year. In fact, on average, excessive heat claims more lives each year than floods, lightning, tornadoes and hurricanes combined. In the disastrous heat wave of 1980, more than 1,250 people died. In the heat wave of 1995 more than 700 deaths in the Chicago area were attributed to heat. In August 2003, a record heat wave in Europe claimed an estimated 50,000 lives.

The US is currently experiencing some extreme heat with a very high heat index. Anyone flying out?

Edited June 30, 2012 by knocker

[Thundery wintry showers]

Having read through some stuff in the No Storms Club thread, I put a lot of it down to the "enjoyment as a thought crime" philosophy, i.e. the notion that it is wrong to derive enjoyment from anything that might pose a risk to others, regardless of how large the recreational benefit is or how small the risk is. The recreational benefit is dismissed as needless childish/selfish gratification-seeking (on the flawed killjoy basis, "we all need to work but we don't need to enjoy ourselves").

It is relevant to the erosion of our freedoms as many apply it to things that we do have some control over, such as driving, the Grand National and personal fireworks displays, accusing people of deriving perverse enjoyment from the downsides of those activities (when in reality, bar an irresponsible minority, people enjoy them despite their downsides, not because of them). Also closely related is the view that it is unacceptable to derive enjoyment from something if the enjoyment might offend others, which is where the popular association of "killjoys" with political correctness comes from.

It's very inconsistently applied anyway. For example some on this forum consider it acceptable to hope for snow prior to the beginning of March, but not after- the negative impacts don't really increase, but what does change is that wishing for snow ceases to become the norm. Hence, wanting snow in winter is excused because it is considered normal; wanting snow in spring is not because it is considered different.

I recently saw a piece in the Weather journal slating enthusiasm for thunderstorms except from a work/research perspective, again portraying the enjoyment of something that can pose a threat to others as a sort of "thought crime", so this issue is quite fresh in my mind at the moment.

[AWD]

But you all dont have to work out in it do you ?

Last week was typical it went a bit like this

Large low pressure with storm force winds, rain, snow and the kitchen sink will affect northern parts

and down south people say, i love extreme weather

then as the week progresses after the north got its usual battering, it was

Large low pressure with storm force winds, rain, snow and the kitchen sink will affect southern parts

it was, oh sh*t, mass panic and somebody even suggested that the coasts should be evacuated

bit different then isent it

Yes i prefer the weather we had in november,and a nice high pressure sitting over france/germany

bringing winds from the warm south would do me fine

You would all change you minds if you had to work out in -14 frozen to the core like i had to do last year

I find people liking extreme weather that can kill and also the risk of blowing our roof's off a bit extreme

different when it could kill somebody they know and blow their roof off

Call it bugger off if you like, i read the posts last week, some were getting hysterical

I work outside at night all year around mate, I'm a railway engineer! The colder and snowier in winter the better IMO, a nice night storm in summer, brilliant. Yes, it may be dangerous, but there is always an element of danger in life, it's just how you deal with it that will determine how safe you are. I love all weather, and I don't criticise people over a hobby or sport they may like. I can think of many many things more dangerous in this country than the UK weather.

[knocker]

Having read through some stuff in the No Storms Club thread, I put a lot of it down to the "enjoyment as a thought crime" philosophy, i.e. the notion that it is wrong to derive enjoyment from anything that might pose a risk to others, regardless of how large the recreational benefit is or how small the risk is. The recreational benefit is dismissed as needless childish/selfish gratification-seeking (on the flawed killjoy basis, "we all need to work but we don't need to enjoy ourselves").

Without getting into a philosophical debate about what a thought crime is or isn't how many actually enjoy severe heat. Would the last poster like working outside all day then. In fact it probably wouldn't be possible. I can't stand the cold having survived the 62-3 winter but if it occurs it doesn't stop we being enthralled by the exquisite beauty of rime.

[Bobby]

I think it's pretty easy to separate being in awe of the power of nature, and also respecting it's ability to cause destruction. I don't see what the big deal is?

It's wrong to like rain because it causes floods, wrong to like sun because it causes sunburn, heat because it causes heatstroke, wind because it blows things over, dry weather because it causes droughts, fog because it causes car accidents, snow because it causes disruption, frost and cold because it causes people to fall over and freeze, cloud because it causes SAD, thunderstorms because people get stuck with lightning?

Edited June 30, 2012 by Barb-

[Thundery wintry showers]

For me, regarding whether I hope for something or not, it's all about whether the risk is large enough to offset the excitement and enjoyment- in essence with increasing severity we run into a diminishing returns law. I didn't enjoy the French heatwave of August 2003, though in a way I was pleased to be there for some of it just to experience those temperatures and live to tell the tale. However in recent years I've been seeing an increasing number of articles that condemned those who wish for temperatures of 25-29C, on the basis that they are bad for various work-related practices and only good for recreational practices (again the premise being that we all need to work but we don't need to enjoy ourselves).

It is a similar story with thunderstorms- I wouldn't want to live in a climate like "Tornado Alley" for although the convective displays would be awe-inspiring, the associated dangers are very large, but on the other hand I would probably love a climate like that of Munich where spectacular thunderstorms are common but for the most part you'd have to be unlucky to suffer more than a bit of short-term disruption from them.

However I don't like to judge others for having a higher risk-tolerance threshold than mine- if they were imposing that risk upon others it would be different, but they aren't so it isn't. I do, however, judge those who suggest that anything higher than a zero threshold can't be justified for pleasure.

Edited June 30, 2012 by Thundery wintry showers

[Sainsbo]

There's nothing we can do to stop severe weather from happening. If we take proper safety precautions when needed, there's no reason not to enjoy it. It's not like we can stop it.

[johnholmes]

Having read through some stuff in the No Storms Club thread, I put a lot of it down to the "enjoyment as a thought crime" philosophy, i.e. the notion that it is wrong to derive enjoyment from anything that might pose a risk to others, regardless of how large the recreational benefit is or how small the risk is. The recreational benefit is dismissed as needless childish/selfish gratification-seeking (on the flawed killjoy basis, "we all need to work but we don't need to enjoy ourselves").

It is relevant to the erosion of our freedoms as many apply it to things that we do have some control over, such as driving, the Grand National and personal fireworks displays, accusing people of deriving perverse enjoyment from the downsides of those activities (when in reality, bar an irresponsible minority, people enjoy them despite their downsides, not because of them). Also closely related is the view that it is unacceptable to derive enjoyment from something if the enjoyment might offend others, which is where the popular association of "killjoys" with political correctness comes from.

It's very inconsistently applied anyway. For example some on this forum consider it acceptable to hope for snow prior to the beginning of March, but not after- the negative impacts don't really increase, but what does change is that wishing for snow ceases to become the norm. Hence, wanting snow in winter is excused because it is considered normal; wanting snow in spring is not because it is considered different.

I recently saw a piece in the Weather journal slating enthusiasm for thunderstorms except from a work/research perspective, again portraying the enjoyment of something that can pose a threat to others as a sort of "thought crime", so this issue is quite fresh in my mind at the moment.

Having read through some stuff in the No Storms Club thread, I put a lot of it down to the "enjoyment as a thought crime" philosophy, i.e. the notion that it is wrong to derive enjoyment from anything that might pose a risk to others, regardless of how large the recreational benefit is or how small the risk is. The recreational benefit is dismissed as needless childish/selfish gratification-seeking (on the flawed killjoy basis, "we all need to work but we don't need to enjoy ourselves").

It is relevant to the erosion of our freedoms as many apply it to things that we do have some control over, such as driving, the Grand National and personal fireworks displays, accusing people of deriving perverse enjoyment from the downsides of those activities (when in reality, bar an irresponsible minority, people enjoy them despite their downsides, not because of them). Also closely related is the view that it is unacceptable to derive enjoyment from something if the enjoyment might offend others, which is where the popular association of "killjoys" with political correctness comes from.

It's very inconsistently applied anyway. For example some on this forum consider it acceptable to hope for snow prior to the beginning of March, but not after- the negative impacts don't really increase, but what does change is that wishing for snow ceases to become the norm. Hence, wanting snow in winter is excused because it is considered normal; wanting snow in spring is not because it is considered different.

I recently saw a piece in the Weather journal slating enthusiasm for thunderstorms except from a work/research perspective, again portraying the enjoyment of something that can pose a threat to others as a sort of "thought crime", so this issue is quite fresh in my mind at the moment.

Ian where on earth do you conjure up some of your expressions?

thought crime-what the heck is that, how about explaining how you feel in normal English please?

Incidentally I see nothing wrong in people enjoying their hobby, be it cycling, skiing, hiking etc etc and a fascination with weather extremes. It does NOT mean that person is hoping someone will be injured, killed or suffer any other kind of distress, simply that person enjoying mother nature.