Why Do Some Feel It's Wrong To Like Severe Weather?

[Thundery wintry showers]

By "thought crime" I mean the line of thinking where enjoying or wishing for something is seen as a disgrace, even though such thoughts aren't imposing associated risks upon anyone.

I remember getting strong reprimands on this forum for wishing for snow in spring (because of the disruption that it can cause wildlife) and for lamenting transport policies that threaten my enjoyment from being driven in people's cars (by association with mindless thrill seeking boy racers, and the more general observation that misuse of cars kills millions of people each year) to quote two examples. It also comes up a lot elsewhere- I recently read a scientific paper that, at the end, gave a warning about lamenting the recent decline of thunder activity for personal gratification-related reasons when thunderstorms can pose a threat to lives. Thus I'm pretty confident that I haven't made it up.

[knocker]

Ian where on earth do you conjure up some of your expressions?

thought crime-what the heck is that, how about explaining how you feel in normal English please?

Incidentally I see nothing wrong in people enjoying their hobby, be it cycling, skiing, hiking etc etc and a fascination with weather extremes. It does NOT mean that person is hoping someone will be injured, killed or suffer any other kind of distress, simply that person enjoying mother nature.

Granted John but if someone wishes for a repeat of an event that has already caused death and widespread flooding then it's somewhat disinengenuous to divorce yourself from the known consequencies and say it's just nature taking it's course. I'm obviously not saying that they are hoping this will happen again but in my book you cannot separate the natural event from the consequencies. And with severe heat I fail to see what the 'gains' are as recreational pastimes are pretty limited as well unless you are a scuba diver. The only inevitable result is the deaths of many people who otherwise would still be alive.

Edited June 30, 2012 by knocker

[Methuselah]

There's nothing we can do to stop severe weather from happening. If we take proper safety precautions when needed, there's no reason not to enjoy it. It's not like we can stop it.

I agree. Why pretend not to be enjoying a good thunderstorm just because someone, somewhere, might get struck by lightning? Surely that is always the case?

[Eskimo]

We are all weather enthusiasts and that is the reason we are all arguing on here, because we care about our interests. If you like damaging life-threatening horrendous storms then so be it, respect that persons interests and that person will respect yours.

[knocker]

I agree. Why pretend not to be enjoying a good thunderstorm just because someone, somewhere, might get struck by lightning? Surely that is always the case?

Quite. Why pretend not to enjoy a very intense Atlantic depression just because a few ships may founder and lifeboatmen have to risk their lives, Believe me I've been in enough of them to appreciate the force of nature and it scares me. And of course there is no might about severe heat. This isn't just about thunderstorms.

[Liam J]

We are all fascinated by the weather, we have no control over the severity of the weather types Mother Nature throws at us, thats part of the buzz of being a weather geek I guess being in awe of the shear power which can be unleashed. I don't see the point of having a huge interest in the weather but not wanting to witness some sort of extreme event or certainly weather synoptics that fit in with each season. In winter the majority are frantically looking for cold & snowy weather or severe gales etc and so on, all of which will continue to cause disruption injuries & fatalities each time they occur and this fact (which we are well aware of) will not force me not to enjoy or hope for it any less each year.

People suffer injury or sadly death everyday doing things they love & enjoy. Driving your car, working in certain environments, playing many different sports, accidents, non stop eating, taking risks etc etc in fact everything we choose to undertake having full control over in our day to day lives poses a significantly bigger threat than the British weather likely ever will. What about all the millions of smokers puffing away on ciggies knowing fine well they are killing themselves, they know the risks, they love it and they don't stop. Now if we took all of the statistics from fatalities of the UK population and then compared this with weather only related deaths I'm sure the latter would be less than a few percent if that. Around 2000 people die in the UK everyday, 600,000 per year, 100,000 smoking related, 200,000 die in road accidents.

Yet some seriously feel that it's wrong because many people hope for severe weather events even though we have absolutely no control or say in what actually happens in reality (if you think you do then get some help). Thats part of the excitement IMO something so powerful and a natural occurrence that can and will continue for many moons to stop our normal day to day living, then Mother Nature will have us on our knees begging for mercy into her deaf ears. She has the power to wipe us out, and that for me is one of the best buzzes you can experience whilst witnessing a severe weather occurrence in the UK or anywhere in the world for that matter.

Edited June 30, 2012 by Liam J

[Methuselah]

Quite. Why pretend not to enjoy a very intense Atlantic depression just because a few ships may founder and lifeboatmen have to risk their lives, Believe me I've been in enough of them to appreciate the force of nature and it scares me. And of course there is no might about severe heat. This isn't just about thunderstorms.

But I do sit and reflect when bad things happen, knocker. It's quite possible to enjoy something per se AND be aware that some bad things might happen. Are you suggesting we all stop enjoying football because of the Fabrice Muamba tragedy?

[knocker]

People suffer injury or sadly death everyday doing things they love & enjoy. Driving your car, working in certain environments, playing many different sports, accidents, non stop eating, taking risks etc etc in fact everything we choose to undertake having full control over in our day to day lives poses a significantly bigger threat than the British weather likely ever will. What about all the millions of smokers puffing away on ciggies knowing fine well they are killing themselves, they know the risks, they love it and they don't stop. Now if we took all of the statistics from fatalities of the UK population and then compared this with weather only related deaths I'm sure the latter would be less than a few percent if that. Around 2000 people die in the UK everyday, 600,000 per year, 100,000 smoking related, 200,000 die in road accidents.

Yet some seriously feel that it's wrong because many people hope for severe weather events even though we have absolutely no control or say in what actually happens in reality (if you think you do then get some help).

The first part is completely irrelevant to the discussion.. As for the second that is precisely why I think it's wrong to hope for severe weather events. Because we have no control over them. I rather think it's you not me that needs help.

Edited June 30, 2012 by knocker

[knocker]

But I do sit and reflect when bad things happen, knocker. It's quite possible to enjoy something per se AND be aware that some bad things might happen. Are you suggesting we all stop enjoying football because of the Fabrice Muamba tragedy?

Come on RP that analogy is beneath you. I will ask the question again as nobody seems to want to answer it. Who enjoys severe heat knowing that, apart from the fact that it affects everyone, people will die?

[Liam J]

I rather think it's you not me that needs help.

Me and many others apparently , I'm not in the minority here remember.

Actually it wasn't completely irrelevant to the discussion, the weather doesn't contribute to anywhere near the total amount of injuries and fatalities suffered through what many people deem part of normal everyday life. The risks here are mainly over looked.

Edited June 30, 2012 by Liam J

[Snowangel-MK]

Who enjoys severe heat knowing that, apart from the fact that it affects everyone, people will die?

that depends........can we choose who dies ? ..... just asking

[Liam J]

Come on RP that analogy is beneath you. I will ask the question again as nobody seems to want to answer it. Who enjoys severe heat knowing that, apart from the fact that it affects everyone, people will die?

People will continue to die with or without extreme heat, take the correct precautions to give yourself the best chance of survival . Since when did this thread become all about 'extreme heat' anyway?

Edited June 30, 2012 by Liam J

[chionomaniac]

Come on RP that analogy is beneath you. I will ask the question again as nobody seems to want to answer it. Who enjoys severe heat knowing that, apart from the fact that it affects everyone, people will die?

I admit to not enjoying severe heat, especially in the knowledge that people will die. But on the other hand I do enjoy other severe weather that risks peoples lives as well. Does that make me bad, knocker?

[Keraunic]

I'm beyond redemption then because I love all extreme weather. But if someone is determined to see the badness and negativity in everything there is no reasoning with them.

[Methuselah]

Come on RP that analogy is beneath you. I will ask the question again as nobody seems to want to answer it. Who enjoys severe heat knowing that, apart from the fact that it affects everyone, people will die?

I really don't see why it should be 'beneath me', knocker...Indeed, you could ask the same about scuba-diving on the Great Bar Reef: who enjoys scuba-diving when some people will be eaten by sharks?

[Evening thunder]

I can see why some may think we shouldn't 'wish' for severe weather, but a few don't seem to realise (or show they realise) that we don't enjoy severe weather because of the possible risks or effects, we enjoy it despite those risks.

Some enjoy the 'action' or dramatic nature of watching and experiencing that type of weather which can be spectacular, but when a death or property loss etc occurs it usually has a dampening effect, I think many would enjoy such weather even more if it didn't have associated risks. I'm sure also as it becomes more severe less people overall would wish for/enjoy it, there were probably less people who wanted to be at the centre of Thursday's golf ball sized and larger hailstorms than would generally like a thunderstorm.

As mentioned it's a bit like people enjoy various sports like motor sports because of the action/adrenalin exciting nature, and usually don't enjoy it because of negative consequences like injury or death.

The negative consequences have no relevance in why some weather enthusiasts (including me) like weather such as thunderstorms, although a few don't seem to realise this fully. It may be surprising, but whenever we get severe weather I hope that no-one gets killed and no one looses property, and it can provide a good show with minimal consequences.

Sad but true, In the long run I bet sunny weather in summer claims more lives through skin cancer than weather such as thunderstorms does, so maybe we should all wish for cloudy cool summers..

Maybe a few in here shouldn't drive (if they do), especially sometimes when they don't need to, Knowing that there is a possibility you could cause an accident or worse due to human error, which you do have control about (could stop it by not driving) so that could be argued to be worse than enjoying something you have no control about for completely different aspects than any possible deaths.

The first part is completely irrelevant to the discussion.. As for the second that is precisely why I think it's wrong to hope for severe weather events. Because we have no control over them. I rather think it's you not me that needs help.

Well you may have your views but the best place to suggest that people who enjoy different, and more 'pronounced'/dramatic types of weather 'needs help' is not a weather forum full of weather enthusiasts..

I'm not sure who mentioned extreme heat anyway? I don't enjoy extreme heat (never really experienced it but can't imagine enjoying it), But in a more moderate quantity for not too long, I probably would.

Personally I like thunderstorms/lightning and think lightning is one of natures most spectacular shows. It has it's risk yes (which I minimise), but similarly so do firework displays which millions turn out to watch.

[knocker]

I admit to not enjoying severe heat, especially in the knowledge that people will die. But on the other hand I do enjoy other severe weather that risks peoples lives as well. Does that make me bad, knocker?

Chio, it's not about making people bad. I obviously just have a different perspective on this than others. It may be that I spent twenty years on Weather Ships and witnessed enough of severe storms to last me a lifetime that tend to make me very wary of hoping for these events. The night the Penlee lifeboat was lost is still quite vivid in my memory. I appreciate that events unfold that are outside one's control but that is why I'm wary about hoping for them.

[knocker]

The negative consequences have no relevance in why some weather enthusiasts (including me) like weather such as thunderstorms, although a few don't seem to realise this fully. It may be surprising, but whenever we get severe weather I hope that no-one gets killed and no one looses property, and it can provide a good show with minimal consequences.

This point keeps arising and I have never suggested or inferred that they did.

[knocker]

Well you may have your views but the best place to suggest that people who enjoy different, and more 'pronounced'/dramatic types of weather 'needs help' is not a weather forum full of weather enthusiasts..

Well the expression 'needs help' was suggested towards me first by one of the enthuisasts so perhaps your showing a little bias here.

[Liam J]

I can see why some may think we shouldn't 'wish' for severe weather, but a few don't seem to realise (or show they realise) that we don't enjoy severe weather because of the possible risks or effects, we enjoy it despite those risks.

Some enjoy the 'action' or dramatic nature of watching and experiencing that type of weather which can be spectacular, but when a death or property loss etc occurs it usually has a dampening effect, I think many would enjoy such weather even more if it didn't have associated risks. I'm sure also as it becomes more severe less people overall would wish for/enjoy it, there were probably less people who wanted to be at the centre of Thursday's golf ball sized and larger hailstorms than would generally like a thunderstorm.

As mentioned it's a bit like people enjoy various sports like motor sports because of the action/adrenalin exciting nature, and usually don't enjoy it because of negative consequences like injury or death.

The negative consequences have no relevance in why some weather enthusiasts (including me) like weather such as thunderstorms, although a few don't seem to realise this fully. It may be surprising, but whenever we get severe weather I hope that no-one gets killed and no one looses property, and it can provide a good show with minimal consequences.

Sad but true, In the long run I bet sunny weather in summer claims more lives through skin cancer than weather such as thunderstorms does, so maybe we should all wish for cloudy cool summers..

Maybe a few in here shouldn't drive (if they do), especially sometimes when they don't need to, Knowing that there is a possibility you could cause an accident or worse due to human error, which you do have control about (could stop it by not driving) so that could be argued to be worse than enjoying something you have no control about for completely different aspects than any possible deaths.

Well you may have your views but the best place to suggest that people who enjoy different, and more 'pronounced'/dramatic types of weather 'needs help' is not a weather forum full of weather enthusiasts..

I'm not sure who mentioned extreme heat anyway? I don't enjoy extreme heat (never really experienced it but can't imagine enjoying it), But in a more moderate quantity for not too long, I probably would.

Personally I like thunderstorms/lightning and think lightning is one of natures most spectacular shows. It has it's risk yes (which I minimise), but similarly so do firework displays which millions turn out to watch.

I've ran out of my 'like this' allowance, but this is a brilliant post.

[chionomaniac]

Chio, it's not about making people bad. I obviously just have a different perspective on this than others. It may be that I spent twenty years on Weather Ships and witnessed enough of severe storms to last me a lifetime that tend to make me very wary of hoping for these events. The night the Penlee lifeboat was lost is still quite vivid in my memory. I appreciate that events unfold that are outside one's control but that is why I'm wary about hoping for them.

I can understand those thoughts knocker.

Having sat in Joplin the week before a devastating tornado hit I can't help feeling for the people that suffered there and truly wished that a devastating tornado had not hit the town.

But I still want to see a tornado in my life - they will still happen after all - I do not want to see one drive through a populated area but would still wish to see it.

I guess one can still wish to see weather extremes whilst hoping that they do not cause loss of life.

Before you experienced the weather first hand on weather ships did you look forward to what the elements could throw at you in this line of work? Perhaps you lived through some ferocious storms that you found both terrifying and yet exhilarating at the same time?

[knocker]

I'm beyond redemption then because I love all extreme weather. But if someone is determined to see the badness and negativity in everything there is no reasoning with them.

Indeed you are but eventually you can make your peace. And instead of badness and negativity read different perspective. And I'm one of the most reasonable people on earth.

[Liam J]

Chio, it's not about making people bad. I obviously just have a different perspective on this than others. It may be that I spent twenty years on Weather Ships and witnessed enough of severe storms to last me a lifetime that tend to make me very wary of hoping for these events. The night the Penlee lifeboat was lost is still quite vivid in my memory. I appreciate that events unfold that are outside one's control but that is why I'm wary about hoping for them.

Well there we go, you have lived through this experience which has changed your perspective on how you view certain events, and in this case it's severe weather. That doesn't mean to say you can also try and force the same outlook of dread and fear onto others who genuinely enjoy the weather and also live to witness extreme weather occurrences.

Edited June 30, 2012 by Liam J

[Thundery wintry showers]

I apologise if the points I made earlier weren't expressed in a very easy-to-understand way, but the latest set of posts have strongly reflected the very points that I was making.

I've often referred to driving because for me it represents a close analogy. I can't drive, but I often derive enjoyment from being driven as a passenger- relaxation, seeing surroundings and, as long as it doesn't involve taking significant risks, getting a sense of speed. However, I do get somewhat uneasy when I feel that the driver is incompetent or taking significant risks of any kind, especially as, unlike with a reckless weather event, it's something within the control of a human being.

I've had people suggest to me that wishing to be taken out in somebody's car for pleasure is extremely selfish because it's getting gratification from something that pollutes the environment and kills millions of people each year. "Would you think that way if a member of your family had been killed by a reckless thrill seeker?" they ask. I point out that I don't condone reckless thrill seeking, but an easy retort is the fact that driving safely is still a health and safety risk relative to not driving at all.

I actually agree with the need to tackle the downsides of cars and become less reliant upon them generally- it's just the belief that my enjoying, or wishing for, being driven in people's cars is selfish and needs to be stamped out that invariably triggers a nerve in me. I've seen that way of thinking applied to many other activities too (some of which others have already listed) which is why I relate it to the erosion of our freedoms.

The belief that it's wrong to enjoy dramatic and/or extreme weather essentially triggers the same nerve. I don't agree with the downsides, and I agree with doing whatever we can to minimise the risks, but I derive enjoyment from other aspects of it- adrenaline, action, asthetics etc. I must admit that on occasion severe gales have scared me in the same ways as taxi drivers who take me down 30mph zones at 45-50mph do, but even then, I stand up for those who are enjoying them, on the basis that they aren't doing anyone else any harm- hence my reference to "thought crimes" as it's purely their thoughts that others are taking objection to. If people were physically inflicting the severe gales upon me, above a certain level of severity I would certainly object, but they aren't, so I don't. Hence the argument of it being more acceptable to wish for extreme weather because we can't control it.

[knocker]

I can understand those thoughts knocker.

Having sat in Joplin the week before a devastating tornado hit I can't help feeling for the people that suffered there and truly wished that a devastating tornado had not hit the town.

But I still want to see a tornado in my life - they will still happen after all - I do not want to see one drive through a populated area but would still wish to see it.

I guess one can still wish to see weather extremes whilst hoping that they do not cause loss of life.

Before you experienced the weather first hand on weather ships did you look forward to what the elements could throw at you in this line of work? Perhaps you lived through some ferocious storms that you found both terrifying and yet exhilarating at the same time?

Not really but I made up for it. Standing on the bridge of a small ship and seeing an 80 foot wall of water in front of you is awesome and extremely scary at the same time. You really appreciate it when filling a weather balloon in a force 12, fully exposed on deck. It's extremely scary but it's like you are in the middle of a maelstrom. Witnessing mother nature from the inside. Which is why I have tremendous admiration for the extremely brave people who man lifeboats. Takes some skill and courage believe me.

But I did have a years break and copped the 62-63 winter. Great timing.