Why Do Some Feel It's Wrong To Like Severe Weather?

[Lauren]

Why?

I guess what Ice Pop may be trying to say (correct me if I'm wrong!) is that it seems to odd to join a weather enthusiast forum when the weather you like is well.....nothing.

Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I suppose it's like joining a sports car enthusiast forum when what you like is a reliable Citroen Berlingo.

[Methuselah]

I guess what Ice Pop may be trying to say (correct me if I'm wrong!) is that it seems to odd to join a weather enthusiast forum when the weather you like is well.....nothing.

Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I suppose it's like joining a sports car enthusiast forum when what you like is a reliable Citroen Berlingo.

Now, when you put it like that...

[NickyB]

I guess what Ice Pop may be trying to say (correct me if I'm wrong!) is that it seems to odd to join a weather enthusiast forum when the weather you like is well.....nothing.

Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I suppose it's like joining a sports car enthusiast forum when what you like is a reliable Citroen Berlingo.

Spot on :-)

[Feathers Mcgraw]

I have mixed feelings, I come here because I am interested in what is going to happen, and this site has so many people who are good at giving the right advance warning. I have no problems with people who enjoy the sever weather, but do wonder about them being happily tucked up in a well built warm house hovering over their computer screens with glee.

Yet I do wish on occasions they would give a nod of awareness to those of use who have to go out in it when it is at its worst. I am a livestock breeder and although I find an excitement in the force nature can throw at us, having to get up and go out in it to sort out the problems it brings can be very wearying. In the snow last year I was out overnight in heavy snow to clear nets to stop them collapsing, Three hours sleep in 24hrs and much of it spent outdoors tends to rather dampen your enthusasm about severe weather events.

But I agree, it still feels right that nature can kick mankind firmly in the backside! Even if I do get cold and wet whilst it's going on.

[Gorath]

I love exciting weather, so huge storms, massive snowfalls, and deluges of rain get me interested.

Extreme weather can kill people, but that's not WHY I enjoy being in, witnessing, and hearing about huge storms. To accuse me of being ignorant to the threat of life is, well, a bit ignorant.

And I'm no stranger to death. We lost my brother in a storm over a particular Christmas period.

[knocker]

Fingers crossed Weather Ship doesn't get wind (pardon the pun) of this thread.

Arh but he has so you can uncross your fingers. It's basically a question of degree. I don't think it's wrong to appreciate the vagaries of the weather indeed cyclogenesis, hurricanes, tornadoes, etc are extremely interesting from both a scientific point of view and are part of the natural world.

What sticks in my craw is many people seem to wish these extreme events to happen simply because they are 'exiting' and dismiss the social implications which I find perverse. For example I'm a member of a US weather site and one of the forum leaders was bemoaning the fact that no hurricane had 'come ashore' for that season! Plus I vivedly remember the Penlee lifeboat disaster, and although I realise there are other factors that have to be taken into account, I don't take looking "forward to a great storm" with any marked enthusiasm because of the chances of impending tragedy.

Interest, social implications and unbridled enthusiasm have to be balanced and IMHO often they are not. Just to finish, the words "stay safe everyone" crop up regularly. How exactly do the people who risk their lives such as lifeboatmen do that? In many areas if you are out in a F11-12 it ain't easy.

[Aaron]

So you believe they need to be balanced yet you continuously strike down anyone who even shows the slightest interest in a storm or a good snowfall? That is not balance.

People are fully aware of the consequences of severe weather.. but let's face it, virtually all types of weather cause death or disruption, whether that is heavy snow, severe heat, strong winds or a thunderstorm.. but this is a weather forum.. people are allowed to get excited over the prospect of unusual weather occurring without being shot down by the moral high ground

Just remember that when people 'wish' for a hurricane or a thunderstorm, they do not wish for death or destruction. Severe weather enthusiasts are not sick.

Edited December 14, 2011 by Aaron

[Terminal Moraine]

My childhood fascination with severe weather has continued unabated throughout my life and remains undimmed even though I'm rapidly approaching 60. I'll never forget the overwhelming power of the wind in the great gale of February 1962 and I openly confess to a tangible feeling of disappointment that the 'once in a lifetime' storm the models were showing over the weekend now looks like being nothing out of the ordinary, and too far south for me anyway.

Does it matter if I will these events to happen? No, because it's been scientifically proven over my lifetime that my will has no effect whatsoever on the weather.

If I will an event to happen, and it does, and people lose their lives and property is damaged am I responsible?

I would argue that I'm not( see above ) and if you think I am then I also want to take the credit for all the lives I've saved when I will an event to happen and it doesn't (about 999 times out of a thousand in my particular locality )

If nothing else extreme weather events remind us ( collectively ) that, despite our increasingly nature-alienated lifestyles in this part of the world, we are still part of the cycle of natural events, and that is something to be celebrated.

It strikes me as something of an irony that, as tens of thousands of people destroy themselves each year in one way or another as a consequence of the lifestyle they choose to adopt, it is the subject of such hand wringing over the relatively tiny number whose lives might end at the hands of the weather.

Every death is a tragedy for those involved but from a personal perspective I'd rather the last sound I hear being that of my roof crashing onto my head as the wind exceeds 100 mph, as opposed to that of the gently slowing cadence of the heart monitor.

Each to their own eh!

[laserguy]

What sticks in my craw is many people seem to wish these extreme events to happen simply because they are 'exiting' and dismiss the social implications which I find perverse....... How exactly do the people who risk their lives such as lifeboatmen do that? In many areas if you are out in a F11-12 it ain't easy.

Anyone would think that wishing for an extreme weather event is capable of making it actually happen! Ah if only,maybe then I'd be able to escape our almost daily regime of "mainly dry with sunny spells". Nah the vagaries of weather are as inevitable as night and day but you know that,so it's equally pointless in wishing that these things never happened as it is to wish for them. So you can either crawl under the duvet and pray for the nasty angry Weather Monster to go away or take time out to witness and embrace a rare spectacle and revel in its power and glory. As for the lifeboatmen,surely it's a career choice,or would they rather be experiencing the adrenalin rush of stacking shelves at the local 8til late? I'd hazard a guess that the fury of nature is part of what draws them to the profession. A bit like putting a 50mph speed limit on car racing lest someone gets hurt!

Just seen your post TM,and as someone who has spent 4 weeks on life support I can fully concur with your penultimate sentence! Gah,the horror!

Edited December 14, 2011 by laserguy

[knocker]

. So you can either crawl under the duvet and pray for the nasty angry Weather Monster to go away or take time out to witness and embrace a rare spectacle and revel in its power and glory. As for the lifeboatmen,surely it's a career choice,or would they rather be experiencing the adrenalin rush of stacking shelves at the local 8til late? I'd hazard a guess that the fury of nature is part of what draws them to the profession. A bit like putting a 50mph speed limit on car racing lest someone gets hurt!

Just seen your post TM,and as someone who has spent 4 weeks on life support I can fully concur with your penultimate sentence! Gah,the horror!

I remember once crawling out from under my duvet and popping out to fill the midday balloon. The ship was hove to in a F11-12 when suddenly the wind was howling into the balloon shed and I was surrounded by water. The cold front had flown past. I staggered back into the office with some difficulty and thought wow, I hope that happens again soon so I can revel in the power and the glory again. Actually I didn't, I nipped off to change my underpants.

As for the lifeboatman, it's hardly a profession when they are nearly all volunteers who over the years have saved thousands of lives and given many of there own. I would not be so presumptious to guess their motives ( apart from the obvious one of saving lives) but I do know they are exceptionally brave men and women.

[Liam J]

I love severe weather, it all started back in Feb 1996 during the almighty blizzard which left me stranded in School for nearly two days!

It's only dangerous if you put yourself at risk, weather warnings in advance of any possible severe conditions are issued to give pre warnings then it's up to the individual to decide whether of not you will proceed with any plans you may have, which in turn may expose you to the risk of injury etc.

[Eskimo]

What I find ridiculous are the people who criticise others for liking extreme weather. We all have our own preferences, some of us like clear blue skys, no wind and warm days, others like myself like stormy, snowy, outrageous weather out of ordinary because I'm a weather enthusiast. My definition of a weather enthusiast is one who enjoys all types of weather, so therefore...I like all types of weather, and those who find is necessary to critisise us for liking that can quite frankly bugger off.

[M1JWR]

But you all dont have to work out in it do you ?

Last week was typical it went a bit like this

Large low pressure with storm force winds, rain, snow and the kitchen sink will affect northern parts

and down south people say, i love extreme weather

then as the week progresses after the north got its usual battering, it was

Large low pressure with storm force winds, rain, snow and the kitchen sink will affect southern parts

it was, oh sh*t, mass panic and somebody even suggested that the coasts should be evacuated

bit different then isent it

Yes i prefer the weather we had in november,and a nice high pressure sitting over france/germany

bringing winds from the warm south would do me fine

You would all change you minds if you had to work out in -14 frozen to the core like i had to do last year

I find people liking extreme weather that can kill and also the risk of blowing our roof's off a bit extreme

different when it could kill somebody they know and blow their roof off

Call it bugger off if you like, i read the posts last week, some were getting hysterical

[Terminal Moraine]

You would all change you minds if you had to work out in -14 frozen to the core like i had to do last year

I find people liking extreme weather that can kill and also the risk of blowing our roof's off a bit extreme

different when it could kill somebody they know and blow their roof off

Call it bugger off if you like, i read the posts last week, some were getting hysterical

I've worked outdoors for the last 42 years and had part of my roof blown off. I've worked in conditions where I've been so cold I couldn't speak, eat, or move properly after 8 hours but I still love extreme weather as much as I've ever done.

[Jane Louise]

It's all down to safety precautions as mentioned earlier.

[M1JWR]

I've worked outdoors for the last 42 years and had part of my roof blown off. I've worked in conditions where I've been so cold I couldn't speak, eat, or move properly after 8 hours but I still love extreme weather as much as I've ever done.

Yep, i left school in 1977, ive worked mostly outdoors or cold warehouses since,

some mighty cold times, and night shift some of the time, even colder

for example in 1981/82 i milked cows then, -20 sometimes thats one extreme

The other, boxing day 1998, this years storms nowhere near that, it blew

lots away, a roof here, some of it i never saw again, and a house near us had its gable end blown down

but snow is the worst, gets in the way of everything.

So 35 years next year

Edited December 18, 2011 by M1JWR

[ZONE 51]

Im in a desert, its very hot, the sky is clear and the sand is all there is, the wind blows, a storm moves in, 100mph wind blows across the desert, the sand whips up, its dangerous because of the sand, visibility is less then 5%, there is nothing to break, nothing to be destroyed by the wind, but the sand is hurting, i feel the power, the force of nature, its exciting except for the sand.

now take away the sand, and i am feeling the power of the wind with nothing to hurt and nothing to get broken.

if i minus the danger i am then not feeling guilty of liking severe weather, take away the danger and the element is there to be experienced without anything getting destroyed, and then the guilt of liking or wanting extreme weather is gone.

Wanting a storm is for the element of power not the danger, but the power brings danger, i never wish for anything, if something turns up then i would experience it, if it downgrades then i would be relieved that it has because of the danger it could bring if it did turn up.

Imagine a severe electrical storm, cloud to cloud only, a dry storm, no rain, no flooding, nothing, just a spectacular display, then think about a severe storm with cloud to ground fork strikes, then the one to choose would be the first type of storm, its much safer and i could enjoy it without any worry, i would be excited about both though!

Edited December 18, 2011 by ElectricSnowStorm

[Insert Name Here]

I wonder how many people in mindanao privince in the Phillipines like extreme weather today after recent events!

I also think theres a lot of people round the world would laugh at us UK softies for claiming we have ANY extreme weather whatsoever.

Like I said before, having skin in the game makes all the difference.

I bet the vast majority of little boys who ended up fighting and dying in WW1 or WW2 liked guns and tanks and war when they were kids. Those who were lucky enough to survive knew the truth that theres nothing good about it at all even though its exciting to the observer.

As I say, we in the UK will probably never see truly extreme weather on our doorstep and if any of us are ever unfortunate enough to do so then they will probably spend the rest of their life praying they never see it again.

Imagine we were all in a forum for famine enthusiasts getting excited about the hunger pangs we get in the UK when we skip our lunch.

Whether its hunger or weather, finding minor deviations from the benign interesting and exciting is harmless fun but true extremes are a different matter altogether.

Edited December 18, 2011 by Insert Name Here

[Lauren]

I don't really buy the whole 'you wouldn't like extreme weather if you experienced it regularly' thing. Perhaps in terms of drought and major floods yes (but then again i don't think anyone would want that weatherwise). Two people I went to uni with are now married and living in the heart of tornado alley and they love it. Of course they hate it when people are killed and they feel fear when a tornado is heading towards their house, but they also feel so alive. They have several neighbours who are the same. i don't think being a fan of extreme weather is based on where you live i just think it's part of your character in the same way liking different foods and hobbies is.

[Thundery wintry showers]

I think many of these arguments owe a lot to the common beliefs that "we all need to work and survive, but we don't need to enjoy ourselves", and that enjoying something that can cause problems amounts to a selfish childish indulgence that we're supposed to "grow out of". This argument crops up re. all types of dramatic and/or severe weather, and especially snow events.

As others have said, with recreational pursuits there is invariably some sort of risk-reward equation, where at some point the risks begin to outweigh the rewards. I despise the whole "pleasure is selfish/disposable" argument as it often results in a heavily skewed perspective on how good or bad something is, and contributes to bans on recreational pursuits. In the case of extreme/dramatic weather the usual risk-reward equation doesn't apply in the same ways as it's something that we can't control. If we sacrifice our enjoyment of extreme weather out of "respect" for those who suffer from it, we don't do the suffering any favours, we're just self-sacrificing for the sake of it. But nonetheless there is a risk-reward equation concerning our own enjoyment vs. the negative consequences- it is certainly possible to naively wish for a severe weather event without taking on board its full consequences, and regret it when the event happens. Also, it also pays to recognise which people will be adversely affected and help them out where feasible.

Some of those who chide others for enjoying dramatic/extreme weather can be very hypocritical about it, i.e. the "it's OK to enjoy dramatic/severe weather, but only as long as I enjoy it" line. One stark example is the way some on this forum are happy for others to enjoy snow (at least in moderation) until the end of February, then suddenly start chiding them for being "selfish" come the beginning of March.

One thing I will say is that the obsession with cold/snow in the Model Output Discussion thread does get excessively dominant, to the point where people who have other preferences feel left out/afraid to contribute, and those who are adversely affected are particularly peeved as a result. But the main solution there isn't necessarily a toning down of the desire for/enjoyment of cold and snow, but rather more objective analysis and recognition that not everybody shares the same preferences.

Edited December 20, 2011 by Thundery wintry showers

[Coast]

Here's my analogy:

I love motorsport, any motorsport and I realise that it is not only likely to be dangerous but has the ability to kill. Every time I go to an event (or have taken part) the circuits and courses are littered with these signs:

I don't go to (or have taken part in) motorsport to see accidents, injuries or heaven forbid a death.

Unfortunately at one event I was competing in a driver was killed and it was a great shock to everyone taking part. It hasn't put me off my love of the sport or made me feel guilty about liking to watch competition because even if I had not been there, the events would still have unfolded just as they did.

I cannot change or divert the weather, be it good or bad, but I can observe it and see what its results are. Hopefully no loss of property or life will result, but chance and nature will be the only things that can influence that, not my passion for something out of the ordinary coming from the sky.

[Evening thunder]

My two pence worth of waffle is..

It would be sad if we weren't able to like interesting/severe weather. Can't like high winds, thunderstorms, snow, cold, heat, etc. Can't have rain as that makes the roads more slippery so there is an increased risk of crashes, so just dry and sunny all the time? Oh wait no we can't have that as it might dazzle drivers. Also I bet the sad fact is that sunshine claims far more lives through skin cancer etc than any other storm event, so technically all the sun lovers and worshippers would be just as much in the wrong here. Of course in reality that doesn't mean we can't enjoy it and take sensible precautions like sun cream.

So we would just have to have dry cloudy weather all the time I guess? Although we would be stuffed then as no plants can grow due to lack of water and sun which would cause huge problems.

I have always liked seeing and recording interesting/severe weather like torrential rain and high winds, it used to fascinate me when I was a child and still does to an extent today, Just the power and movement of it i.e movement of the wind in the trees, Of course what I would hate to see is anyone being hurt/killed like a piece of debris crashing into someone for example, and I was pleased to hear that no one had been seriously injured or killed in the storm that hit Scotland recently. It's not like I'm wishing injury or death on anyone - quite the opposite in fact.

I would imagine there is a difference between the 'severe' weather that most people on this thread have talked about, and some 'extreme weather' examples used in here I.e the Philippines in post #43. Of course there are limits to the amount/severity of severe weather I would enjoy, I doubt many people would like a category 5 hurricane baring down on them or raging flood waters and mudslides tearing through their homes (I certainly wouldn't enjoy the situation some in the Philippines are in and feel sorry for them). Also homes being flooded for example is not the thing about severe weather (in this instance heavy/torrential rain) that makes me enjoy it.

When we had a localised intense storm in October 2008 here the unexpected event made me excited when it was happening, and some of the dramatic scenes afterwards, but afterwards I also felt bad for the people that were put out of their homes by flooding.

I think many of these arguments owe a lot to the common beliefs that "we all need to work and survive, but we don't need to enjoy ourselves", and that enjoying something that can cause problems amounts to a selfish childish indulgence that we're supposed to "grow out of". This argument crops up re. all types of dramatic and/or severe weather, and especially snow events.

I will never subscribe to that kind of argument and it annoys me if it does appear. I mean, if we can't enjoy ourselves, then to put it bluntly, what's the point of existing?

Edited December 20, 2011 by Stormmad26

[Thundery wintry showers]

I imagine that if the authorities could control the weather, we'd probably end up with bucketloads of the so-called "usable" weather (as described on TV broadcasts) that Terminal Moraine sometimes laments about. There would be some belts of light to moderate frontal rain or drizzle, mostly in winter, to help keep water supplies going, and at other times it would be dry with some sunny intervals and patches of stratocumulus. Temperatures would remain rooted to the seasonal average all year round, with mean maxima of 13C in January rising to 22C in July.

Some people might see that as an "ideal" sort of climate on the face of it, but I imagine that the majority of even non-enthusiasts would get very bored with it after a while. After all, notable weather events generate talking points and some (heatwaves, snow events and thunderstorms being obvious examples) are appreciated by many non-enthusiasts.

The analogy with motorsport is quite a good one. One could argue that wishing for a cut-throat F1 race with plenty of overtaking moves and incidents is effectively wishing increased risk relative to wishing for a processional race, but it's not something that viewers can control, and in any case, up to a point the increased risk is at least offset by the increased excitement for both viewers and competitors. Sometimes, sadly, the risk results in serious injuries, as per Kubica and Massa recently- but if they were to stifle racing to the extent necessary to eliminate risk of injuries then motorsport would just collapse. Indeed, sometimes people get thrills out of danger in itself, which applies both to motorsport and extreme weather events.

[Terminal Moraine]

I imagine that if the authorities could control the weather, we'd probably end up with bucketloads of the so-called "usable" weather (as described on TV broadcasts) that Terminal Moraine sometimes laments about. There would be some belts of light to moderate frontal rain or drizzle, mostly in winter, to help keep water supplies going, and at other times it would be dry with some sunny intervals and patches of stratocumulus. Temperatures would remain rooted to the seasonal average all year round, with mean maxima of 13C in January rising to 22C in July.

Some people might see that as an "ideal" sort of climate on the face of it, but I imagine that the majority of even non-enthusiasts would get very bored with it after a while. After all, notable weather events generate talking points and some (heatwaves, snow events and thunderstorms being obvious examples) are appreciated by many non-enthusiasts.

What a fine post, TWS. If we ever come close to the situation outlined in your first paragraph I will be booking an appointment at my nearest Dignitas hospital but, thankfully, being able to control the weather with any degree of certainty as to the outcome seems highly unlikely, at least within my lifetime.

[Polar Continental]

To be honest, I think weather forecasting models have become so accurate today (though many in Joe public would probably disagree with me) much of the expectation and excitement has been lost for me. In some aspects it can be wonderful to look at the models and see what’s coming 3 or 4 days ahead.

Take the storm modelled for Wednesday for instance, it’s not even formed yet, and we are informed that most areas over the north will probably be hit by winds exceeding 80 mph, while down here, just a bit of breeze up the channel. People are disappointed / relieved / excited / worried before the event has been born. While it’s good to get warned of severe weather, to me there is nothing better than the element of surprise and enjoying the now. Us cold fans often see a cold spell projected on the models, yet before it’s even arrived, we see the end of it and a replacement to milder conditions, then were fed up before we can build our enjoyment lol

Apart from alienating my self from the TV / radio / news papers and people and becoming a complete hermit, there is no escape.