The changing daylight hours thread

[ManiaMuse]

On 04/12/2022 at 20:14, damianslaw said:

Only a week to go and we 'bottom out' in terms of earliest sunset... the current clearer fine conditions are preventing maximum low level light syndrome and a real bonus - wet overcast skies at this time of year make for exceptionally low light, indeed never feels light. 

This has come surprisingly quickly for me. I usually obsess over the sunset times but I have managed to mostly avoid thinking about it this year. Pretty much bottomed out with the evenings now, only lose one more minute so things do not really change much more. Less than a week until the darkest evening and the gradual return of brighter evenings (albeit painfully slowly to begin with).

After that the next milestone for me after the solstice is the end of December when the morning light turns the corner as well.

[Scuba steve]

6 minutes ago, ManiaMuse said:

This has come surprisingly quickly for me. I usually obsess over the sunset times but I have managed to mostly avoid thinking about it this year. Pretty much bottomed out with the evenings now, only lose one more minute so things do not really change much more. Less than a week until the darkest evening and the gradual return of brighter evenings (albeit painfully slowly to begin with).

After that the next milestone for me after the solstice is the end of December when the morning light turns the corner as well.

Me too gone really quick doesn’t seem that long since I was diving in Cornwall in late August  ,never been keen on the long nights

[damianslaw]

One big blessing is the clear skies we have at present, it helping to distort things, wet overcast days often see dull light all day, goes dark by half 3, this eve under a full moonlight and clear skies, it was still lightish at half 4... a real bonus, in what is normally the most dull period of the year. We are being spoilt this year!

[Cookie]

12 minutes ago, damianslaw said:

One big blessing is the clear skies we have at present, it helping to distort things, wet overcast days often see dull light all day, goes dark by half 3, this eve under a full moonlight and clear skies, it was still lightish at half 4... a real bonus, in what is normally the most dull period of the year. We are being spoilt this year!

I have definitely enjoyed some late night full moon walked me on the beach lately no torch required 

[stewfox]

Definitely with no cloud at 7.14am feels lighter than usual for the time of year

[Dangerous55019]

Well the pendulum is slowly reaching the end of its stroke… 

I’m just on my break in work, so popped out to watch the sunset.

Due to the topography of the land, the sun has set at 15:18!! 
 

It also happens to be our second frost and ice day of not only this current winter season, but of 2022!

[sarahng]

Earliest sunset has arrived here - 16.01 - static for a few days until the 15th and then the light starts to return!  Yipeee!

[hillbilly]

On 07/12/2022 at 22:47, damianslaw said:

One big blessing is the clear skies we have at present, it helping to distort things, wet overcast days often see dull light all day, goes dark by half 3, this eve under a full moonlight and clear skies, it was still lightish at half 4... a real bonus, in what is normally the most dull period of the year. We are being spoilt this year!

When i worked on the farm duping from the mid 80s to 2000 there were many winters days,even on the longest of nights when you could see clearly out in the fields in the dark,you only need snowcover,moonlight and be away from artificial light,it really is amazing how far you can see once your eyes have had the 30 minutes to adjust.

[damianslaw]

Tomorrow marks the earliest sunset of the year, 15:46, it stays at this time until the 17th. We have reached peak low level light during afternoon, mornings though - a good 3 weeks yet!

[Summer Sun]

The countdown to spring begins

 

[damianslaw]

The clear skies are certainly helping to ease the effects of the low level light and short daylight at this time of year, we have had some light until 4.30 pm on most recent nights, normally this time of year under grey clouds and rain, we would see short descent into dusk around 3.30pm and days when it doesn't feel light at all. It is just the tonic to offset what can and normally is a very dismal period of the year.

[Summer8906]

Very noticeable now that the mornings are as dark as the evenings, in the sense that the daylight level is about the same at 0800 as it is at 1600. I will grudgingly admit the need for GMT at this time of year (to be precise, the months of December and January, so two months of GMT rather than five), while I think in early Nov, when the mornings are disproportionately light and evenings disproportionately dark, it's ridiculous! 

The current spell is of course a good SAD-killer with prolonged sunshine and full darkness not descending until around 5.30pm - still some light detectable before that.

Next week we have an unfortunate coincidence of the shortest days and likely very dull, dark weather. At least things won't get any worse after that; next week will be in both the astronomical and meteorological sense, the very depths of winter. Roll on the end of January when the evenings really get very noticeably lighter - and when, in some years, dull zonal spells in mid-winter start easing.

Edited December 16, 2022 by Summer8906

[Summer8906]

On 14/12/2022 at 18:59, Summer Sun said:

The countdown to spring begins

When the zonal grot progged in the models clears, I'll feel ready to make that comment.

[Summer8906]

On 10/12/2022 at 12:36, sarahng said:

Earliest sunset has arrived here - 16.01 - static for a few days until the 15th and then the light starts to return!  Yipeee!

So you're in the "sunset never before 4pm" club. I think I just miss out on that privilege, by one minute.

That is one compensation for living in Cornwall in winter, I guess. A dismal winter climate, but sunset is always well after 4pm (1620 today in Penzance) so at least they are spared really dark evenings.

Edited December 16, 2022 by Summer8906

[S Bragg]

On 14/12/2022 at 18:59, Summer Sun said:

The countdown to spring begins

 

Aren't we allowed to enjoy the winter evenings first without people harping on about Spring?  We barely experience decent winters in this country as it is without people wishing the winter away.  Or would you prefer 9 months of spring and summer?

[Summer8906]

7 hours ago, S Bragg said:

Aren't we allowed to enjoy the winter evenings first without people harping on about Spring?  We barely experience decent winters in this country as it is without people wishing the winter away.  Or would you prefer 9 months of spring and summer?

I think many of us like the snow and cold (and still time for that, hopefully, though I fear it may not be until end of Jan or Feb now) but excessive darkness is just a pain, gives little time to do anything, and doesn't help with SAD.

8 hours of daylight is simply too short. Sunset advancing further and further away from 4pm can't come too soon for me!

Edited December 17, 2022 by Summer8906

[ManiaMuse]

23 hours ago, Summer8906 said:

Very noticeable now that the mornings are as dark as the evenings, in the sense that the daylight level is about the same at 0800 as it is at 1600. I will grudgingly admit the need for GMT at this time of year (to be precise, the months of December and January, so two months of GMT rather than five), while I think in early Nov, when the mornings are disproportionately light and evenings disproportionately dark, it's ridiculous! 

The current spell is of course a good SAD-killer with prolonged sunshine and full darkness not descending until around 5.30pm - still some light detectable before that.

Next week we have an unfortunate coincidence of the shortest days and likely very dull, dark weather. At least things won't get any worse after that; next week will be in both the astronomical and meteorological sense, the very depths of winter. Roll on the end of January when the evenings really get very noticeably lighter - and when, in some years, dull zonal spells in mid-winter start easing.

Totally agree the timings for the clock changes are not balanced around the solstice and waste daylight. The mornings do get very dark towards the end of December/early January but lots of people are on holiday then anyway and we have had a few months to get used to the dark by then.

Personally I would put the clocks back mid to late February rather than waiting until all the way at the end of March. By the time we put the clocks back it is light by 5am here in Manchester which is ridiculous given that for most people that light would be more welcome in the evenings.

 

 

[Summer8906]

14 minutes ago, ManiaMuse said:

Totally agree the timings for the clock changes are not balanced around the solstice and waste daylight. The mornings do get very dark towards the end of December/early January but lots of people are on holiday then anyway and we have had a few months to get used to the dark by then.

Personally I would put the clocks back mid to late February rather than waiting until all the way at the end of March. By the time we put the clocks back it is light by 5am here in Manchester which is ridiculous given that for most people that light would be more welcome in the evenings.

 

 

 

Indeed, November and March are the two months where we get days very noticeably skewed towards morning daylight and away from evening daylight.

Sunrise on the last day of GMT here is (I think) only about 45 minutes later, by local time, than at the summer solstice! (By contrast, sunset is three hours earlier).

Edited December 17, 2022 by Summer8906

[ANYWEATHER]

21 minutes ago, ManiaMuse said:

Totally agree the timings for the clock changes are not balanced around the solstice and waste daylight. The mornings do get very dark towards the end of December/early January but lots of people are on holiday then anyway and we have had a few months to get used to the dark by then.

Personally I would put the clocks back mid to late February rather than waiting until all the way at the end of March. By the time we put the clocks back it is light by 5am here in Manchester which is ridiculous given that for most people that light would be more welcome in the evenings.

 

 

It makes no difference whatsoever fiddling with clocks going back and forward.  What suits people one side of the street ,the other side of the street it does not. Leave the clocks on GMT. ☺

[Summer8906]

9 hours ago, ANYWEATHER said:

It makes no difference whatsoever fiddling with clocks going back and forward.  What suits people one side of the street ,the other side of the street it does not. Leave the clocks on GMT. ☺

And end up with pre-7pm sunsets for all of September, much of April and even the end of August, and where it's always dark at 8.30pm even in June - no thanks

It would also cut the hours available for such delights as evening drinks in the warm sunshine in a pub garden.

And that's before we have to deal with sleep-disrupting strong twilight between 3-4am, which many consider the middle of the night.

GMT is out of sync with the majority of people's waking hours, and only makes sense in the middle of the winter when it would otherwise still be twilight at 9am. I can just about tolerate the current system (though GMT in November irritates me intensely) but please, no permanent GMT. I suspect most would not appreciate losing an additional hour of daylight during waking hours for 7 months of the year, to be "compensated" by useless and potentially sleep-disrupting daylight at silly-o-clock.

Edited December 17, 2022 by Summer8906

[ANYWEATHER]

33 minutes ago, Summer8906 said:

And end up with pre-7pm sunsets for all of September, much of April and even the end of August, and where it's always dark at 8.30pm even in June - no thanks

It would also cut the hours available for such delights as evening drinks in the warm sunshine in a pub garden.

And that's before we have to deal with sleep-disrupting strong twilight between 3-4am, which many consider the middle of the night.

GMT is out of sync with the majority of people's waking hours, and only makes sense in the middle of the winter when it would otherwise still be twilight at 9am. I can just about tolerate the current system (though GMT in November irritates me intensely) but please, no permanent GMT. I suspect most would not appreciate losing an additional hour of daylight during waking hours for 7 months of the year, to be "compensated" by useless and potentially sleep-disrupting daylight at silly-o-clock.

I think you can call it six of one and half a dozen of the other

[Summer8906]

33 minutes ago, ANYWEATHER said:

I think you can call it six of one and half a dozen of the other

Or rather, you could call it 21 of one or 4 of the other. 

(In other words, when do you prefer your June daylight? 2100 or 0400).

Edited December 17, 2022 by Summer8906

[Scuba steve]

From  tonight here anyway the it will be lighter in evenings albeit by 15 seconds tomorrow 

[ANYWEATHER]

11 minutes ago, Summer8906 said:

Or rather, you could call it 21 of one or 4 of the other. 

(In other words, when do you prefer your June daylight? 2100 or 0400).

Makes no difference to me, tbh, you can't shift or change long summer days or short winter days by messing around with an hour.....

[Summer8906]

10 minutes ago, ANYWEATHER said:

Makes no difference to me, tbh, you can't shift or change long summer days or short winter days by messing around with an hour.....

But more people are awake at 2100 than at 0400, that is an undeniable fact.

So you change the clocks to suit people's waking hours. Have it light when the majority of people are awake, and dark when they are asleep, wherever possible. That seems eminently sensible.

 

Edited December 17, 2022 by Summer8906