Moans, ramps and banter

[In Absence of True Seasons]

 Stabilo19 Last June was fantastic. 

But I think the heat records aren't the be-all-end-all of summer. A 5 day heat blast that breaks records for that month doesn't make a great summer season if/when the bulk of the summer season surrounding it is dominated by cloudy and drizzly conditions. June 2019 summer wasn't great. It was very wet, and not particularly sunny outside of the heatwave/s. 

A summer where June, July and August each respectively have lots of dry, sunny and warm (even 18-20c is fine) days is a good summer in my book. 

I don't really care about random 35c days and record breaker temps. There was a heatwave in August 2020 in my area where it was over 30c on each of the days but not a scrap of sun / blue sky, and humid to boot. Was like being in Bangkok in monsoon season. Not pleasant at all.

In terms of summers overall, I'd only really qualify 2018 and 2022 as the properly decent summers in recent history. No other summers in the last 5-10 years had the consistent sunshine hours and warmth to be considered a properly good summer to me. So I don't think people are spoiled.

The reality is, British summer averages are just objectively poor for those who like sunshine and warmth from May to Sept. As are our winter averages for those who like properly wintry conditions. 

[Mapantz]

It's turned in to a very wet month!

Wettest February here since 2014.

 

[marky810]

 Stabilo19 Goodness me, London only 1674 hours of annual sunshine on average. Compare that to the following (lifted from Wikipedia)...

Warsaw - 1997 hours

Moscow - 1901 hours

Stockholm - 1803 hours

Pittsburgh - 2021 hours (dullest city in N.America?)

Copenhagen - 1912 hours

Puts things into perspective.

 

 

[Metwatch]

Officially got the worst combination this afternoon, 4c and raining so that can be classed as cold rain on the back of the cold front, not cold enough for snow either which makes it just the worst.

The good news is that it should be drier from tomorrow with the colder air, and Sunday's sliding low looks to mostly go through northern France rather than bring us more rain.

Edited February 22 by Metwatch

[*Stormforce~beka*]

 SunnyG We should be so lucky ...

[Dark Horse]

 SunnyG tornado in London? It might actually make the place look better, shuffle things round a bit, can't look much worse than it already does in most areas of the city. Then again Manchester isn't exactly great either

[raz.org.rain]

2 hours ago, In Absence of True Seasons said:

his is my main worry as well. Basically becoming a slightly milder Faroe Islands / South-Western Norway

That's very unlikely if it's any consolation. I know these forums are generally not a fan of the "England to turn Mediterranean" soundbite, but a few studies have theorised that the direction of travel for our climate is for something much drier and warmer. Sunnier? I think there's probably a case for that too. One of the more prominent examples is Beck et al. "Present and future Köppen Geiger classification at 1km resolution" from 2018, which concludes that a good portion of the south could have a Csb and Csa climate classification by 2071-2100.

 

Edit: Probably worth mentioning that a "Mediterranean type" climate doesn't always mean a guaranteed hot and dry Andalusia climate. The Balearic Islands and parts of Catalonia are somewhat wet and dull compared to other climates in that region. 

Edited February 22 by raz.org.rain

[In Absence of True Seasons]

 marky810 yes and London is sunnier than most of the UK lol... Use somewhere like Manchester or Liverpool and it gets even more dire. 

 Mapantz zero consecutive dry days laughable. Sums it all up really

[Cheshire Freeze]

 Stabilo19 That’s exactly what is happening.

[TwisterGirl81]

 marky810 I really question Copenhagen and Stockholm sunshine hours, I can’t believe they are sunnier than London 

 

[danm]

 In Absence of True Seasons this is where some expectation re-setting is required. The UK doesn’t typically have 3 straight Summer months where we would normally get warm, sunny weather. Our weather is mixed, within a Summer and between Summers. 2018 and 2022 are not the norm. They’re becoming more common due to climate change, but we can’t expect those types of Summers every year or too frequently. 
 

We have been in a wet spell since last July, and much of peak Summer last year was downright awful, but even in a Summer that many of us class as poor, we still had a record breaking June and a very warm and sunny September. 
 

We do seem to get stuck in weather patterns more often these days, anecdotally at least. I don’t know if that is backed up by the stats. 

There’s no doubt that on average our Summers are getting warmer, and a little sunnier. But within that we can still get drab, grey, cool Summer weather too, and that won’t change so long as we continue to be an island at the eastern edge of a large Ocean as far north as we are. 

[danm]

 marky810  TwisterGirl81 Copenhagen gets 1,629 hours of sunshine per year according to 1981-2010 data. 

[raz.org.rain]

Interestingly enough I've been reading about the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum recently. The British Isles were downright uninhabitable due to how hot and hostile the climate would have been. Even back then it would theoretically have been very humid, albeit a very hot and tropical climate. The latitude would have been somewhat relative to where we are now and climatic conditions as far north as the polar regions would have been much like what Florida currently has.

[CharlieBear9]

 In Absence of True Seasons

Who actually did though? Not sure who here wanted the conditions this winter has manifested. Ducks and snails maybe. 

Back in December this was amongst the daily gloom and fear being expressed over fuel bills:

NEVES SCREAMER

Posted December 18, 2023

"Would be very nice to have a very mild  wet Feb. I look forward to it."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  RJBingham  1

Not heard from him lately, maybe he's been out enjoying the very weather he was hoping for, along with the one who gave it a like?

 

 

[marky810]

 TwisterGirl81 My apologies if it's not accurate , as mentioned I got the data from wikipedia.

 

 

[In Absence of True Seasons]

 CharlieBear9 fair enough. To each their own. The only part of this winter I've personally enjoyed was the cold and sunny spell in Jan. Since then my winter coat has been resigned to the cupboard lol. More use invested in a full body waterproof suit than a winter coat in this country now.

[CharlieBear9]

 In Absence of True Seasons Yeah, I thought it was a strange thing to say in the middle of December, given the known connotations of such a scenario. I can't think of a single benefit but we're all different as you say.

NB, it was posted in the Winter 2023/24 Chat and Discussion thread, before this one came into existence I think.

[TwisterGirl81]

 marky810  it could be accurate but I’m dubious, it’s questionable only because the climate data it has on the Exeter Wikipedia page is out of date for starters, Exeter reached I think 29c last September and it’s still not been amended. I could be wrong but I don’t even think USA major cities sunshine totals are accurate, very inflated like some of their egos plus I heard it’s measured differently than the uk sunshine totals are.  I heard an American lady say online that we had very cold winters as she was thinking degrees celcius were Fahrenheit like how they measure temperature in USA when in fact her winters were much colder than England's 

[HurricaneSteve]

6 hour gap of no posts in the Mad thread, whilst it's still winter

just about sums up this winter eh?

Mind you, sleet and snow symbols are showing for the top of Dartmoor. Winter, not quite done yet

[B87]

 marky810

Warsaw only averaged 1570 hours for 71-00, so that figure looks quite suspect. It would be sunnier than most of non-Mediterranean Europe!

[East Lancs Rain]

2 hours ago, raz.org.rain said:

That's very unlikely if it's any consolation. I know these forums are generally not a fan of the "England to turn Mediterranean" soundbite, but a few studies have theorised that the direction of travel for our climate is for something much drier and warmer. Sunnier? I think there's probably a case for that too. One of the more prominent examples is Beck et al. "Present and future Köppen Geiger classification at 1km resolution" from 2018, which concludes that a good portion of the south could have a Csb and Csa climate classification by 2071-2100.

Having looked at the met office climate stats for different locations across the UK, just about all locations have become warmer and slightly sunnier, which is good, but they are also a bit wetter. However, London is warming up faster than other locations in the UK, esspecially in summer for some reason. Why that is, I’m not sure. Maybe it’s down to more urban development and traffic increasing the heat island effect. Or maybe it’s down to us getting more syntopic patterns that favour the south east. For example, an easterly or a north easterly in summer will tend to give western areas the highest temperatures, whereas a westerly or a south westerly flow will tend to give London the highest temperatures. At lot of summers in recent years have been best in the south east.

 

For example, at Heathrow, the average July and August high has increased by 1.4°C between 1961-90 and 1991-20. July has changed from 22.4 to 23.8 and August has changed from 22.0 to 23.4.

 

However, if we look at Rochdale in Greater Manchester, the summers have not warmed as much. July has increased by 0.8°C from 19.2 to 20.0, and August has only increased by 0.6°C, from 18.9 to 19.5. And interestingly, August mean max in Rochdale is actually ever so slightly lower in the 1971-2000 average than in the 1991-20 average! August has often been a poor month in NW England over the past 15 years or so. August 2008, 2010, 2011, 2014, 2016 and 2017 have all been quite poor or very poor in these parts.

 

Sunshine has increased massively in Heathrow, from 1519 hours per year in 61-90 to 1674 hours in 91-20, while rainfall has only increased slightly, from 596 mm per year in 61-90 to 614 mm in 91-20. The number of rainy days per year has increased slightly from 106 hours in 61-90 to 111 hours in 91-20.

Looking at Rochdale, annual sunshine has increased from 1179 hours in 61-90 to 1265 hours in 91-20. However, annual rainfall has also increased a bit, from 1135 mm in 61-90 to 1197 mm in 91-20. The number of rainy days per year has also increased from 161 to 170.

 

While the summer have warmed up by quite a bit, October has barely changed, with an increase in max temp of 0.5°C from 15.3 to 15.8 at Heathrow. In Rochdale it has warmed even less, with an increase in max temp of just 0.2°C, from 13.2 to 13.4.
 

March and April on the other hand have warmed up massively, with an increase of max temp of over a degree at both Rochdale and Heathrow between 61-90 to 91-20. Mean max for April for Heathrow has increased from 13.1 in 61-90 to 15.0 in 91-20!

 

Overall, the UK has become warmer, sunnier, but also wetter, with fewer cool, cloudy and dry days, fewer exceptionally cool/cold days and more sunny days, more rainy days and more exceptionally mild/warm/hot days. 
 

Perhaps that’s a good thing considering there’s more actual weather going on, more warm sunny days, more wet days, rather than boring days of cloudy and dry weather. However, the amount of annual rainfall and rainy days increasing is bad news in a climate that already suffers with too much rain and far too many days ruined due to rain. The increase in the amount of annual rainfall is easy to explain - warmer air holds more moisture, however the increase in rainy days (days with more than 1 mm of rain as defined by the met office) is harder to explain. Maybe due to an increase in unsettled patterns, low pressure and westerly winds? As for the increase in sunshine, maybe that’s down to less pollution and cleaner air these days?

Overall, the UK is now slightly warmer and sunnier, which is good, however, London is definitely warming up the fastest and appears to have had the biggest increase in sunshine too. So for any Londoners who think the current climate is bad, be grateful it’s not between 1960 and 1990! One of the coldest periods in UK history.

 

 

[emmett garland]

 marky810 I visited Warsaw a few years ago in mid April and was amazed our 4 day visit was blue skies and low 20s temperature..Not sure about the food though but all the blossoms were falling off the trees in light winds and was spectacular as looked like it was snowing..

[Sun Chaser]

 CharlieBear9 Not a fan of this wetness or mildness and I'm sure you'll find most of us didn't want this at all. BUT it's not worth directing your anger at users of this forum, it's not like they choose the weather either!

[Daniel*]

7 hours ago, Summer8906 said:

9th already? I'd have said 8th (which is bad enough) though June's rainfall was presumably entirely down to isolated thunderstorms.

Yes my mistake but fact remains it’s exceptional for relatively dry London.

[Daniel*]

5 hours ago, marky810 said:

Warsaw - 1997 hours

Moscow - 1901 hours

Stockholm - 1803 hours

Pittsburgh - 2021 hours (dullest city in N.America?)

Copenhagen - 1912 hours

Puts things into perspective.

Simple. Those are continental climates, different climate to ours much less maritime influenced. What are you expecting?