Moans, ramps and banter

[danm]

6 minutes ago, In Absence of True Seasons said:

weather from April to September. One thing we succeeding in as a nation though as a result of this, is being at the top of the charts in Europe for dullest cities!

 

That chart is wrong. It shows Manchester getting more sunshine than London. We get 1,647 hrs per year on average, not 1,410.

[In Absence of True Seasons]

 danm Definitely. The poorer weather in 2020 was easier to tolerate too off the back of the fantastic Spring. 

Only 2023 felt so dire predominantly because the vast bulk of the sunny and dry weather was all condensed into June, proceeded by 6/7 weeks of mostly dross, rather than being interspersed here and there as per usual British summer fashion. 

[danm]

Just now, In Absence of True Seasons said:

Definitely. The poorer weather in 2020 was easier to tolerate too off the back of the fantastic Spring. 

It wasn’t just Spring though. Mid July to mid August was excellent. As was September. On top of the exceptional Spring. 

[In Absence of True Seasons]

 danm Yes I spied that after I posted, I didn't read deeply into the stats, just saw the city names and flags. Not sure where they got the data from, London is definitely averaging at 1600+ nowadays as you say. 

[In Absence of True Seasons]

 danm Agree, many great parts of that summer, and September too indeed. My point was that a good Spring (especially mid to late Spring) can "ease the pain" somewhat of a summer month that doesn't deliver as much warm, sunny and dry weather as one would've liked.

2020 summer was quite region dependent I think. I recall my friend who lives in Sheffield responding in envy when I'd often post a photo in our WhatsApp group of myself with a beer in the garden in the sun (COVID lockdown times), and he'd respond with a photo looking out the window with overcast and/or rain outside. Different posters' sentiments on here about summer 2020 seem to mirror this. 

[East Lancs Rain]

 In Absence of True Seasons I guess by global standards Londons summers are pretty cool and cloudy. But being used to NW Englands climate, I would probably find the summers pretty dry, hot and sunny if I was to spend a summer down there. I would probably be moaning it’s too hot lol.

 

I’m not sure that chart you posted is accurate, because it has Birmingham and London duller than Manchester! Other sources say London has around 1678 hours of sunshine a year - it probably varies a bit depending on what station you look at, but 1410 hours a year seems a bit low for London. Also surprising that Glasgow is actually slightly duller than Rewjkavik. If those stats are correct…
 

2 hours ago, raz.org.rain said:

if I remember right, we're another few years away from having parts of the country officially qualify as Mediterranean-type classifications as per Köppen Geiger. I can't imagine we could be described as a cool country for much longer. Contrary to popular belief I believe we could easily develop a much warmer and drier climate over the next few decades.

I don’t think so. Warmer yes but not drier. The climate is getting warmer but also wetter. Warmer air holds more moisture and warmer seas mean deep lows in the Atlantic.

 

And a Mediterranean climate is much more about the rainfall pattern rather than the warmth. Eureka in California is classed as a Mediterranean climate but its summers are actually cooler than most of England! (Although much drier and sunnier). Hardly the kind of summers you’d expect when you’d think of Mediterranean. But becuase its winters are very wet and its summers are bone dry it’s classed as cool summer Mediterranean. UK summers are far too wet to be classed as Mediterranean. I know some places on the south coast are getting a more Mediterranean pattern but not enough to be classed as Mediterranean. I think humid subtropical could be possible for some places in the south in a few decades though.

[danm]

Melting Arctic ice caps helps predict UK heatwaves, study finds - as scientist reveals this summer's forecast

NEWS.SKY.COM

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Researchers have suspected for a while that there is a link between weather extremes in northern Europe and the intense summer melting in the Arctic and subarctic due to climate change - but how they might be...

 

[danm]

 East Lancs Rain I think what is true is that we are experiencing more Mediterranean style weather than we used to, however we are a long way from shifting towards a Mediterranean climate in the south.

Our geographical location will always mean we see variable, mixed weather. However, within that envelope we will get more hot and sunny weather than we used to, which is evidenced by the stats. 

[B87]

 In Absence of True Seasons London does not average 1410 hours of sun per year.

Only one year I can think of has been that dull - 2021.

Edited February 28 by B87

[In Absence of True Seasons]

 B87 Is my comment still showing that graph? I edited it out after I spotted the actual stats in there. I found it online so not sure where they got that data from!

It'd be interesting to know the *actual* top 10 dullest cities in Europe though. I imagine the UK would still feature some in there, alongside places like Reykjavik, Tromso, and Bergen.

Edited February 28 by In Absence of True Seasons

[B87]

 In Absence of True Seasons there are lots of websites with horrifically incorrect data. Accuweather is one of the worst, they think our peak average summer highs are around 21c.

[In Absence of True Seasons]

11 hours ago, East Lancs Rain said:

I guess by global standards Londons summers are pretty cool and cloudy. But being used to NW Englands climate, I would probably find the summers pretty dry, hot and sunny if I was to spend a summer down there. I would probably be moaning it’s too hot lol

For sure! Definitely an element of subjectivity based upon what we are accustomed to. My girlfriend is Brazilian and finds the standard 18-25c London summer days to be "mild" and only anything in the high 20s to 30c and above to be actually properly warm. Anything below 18c or so..."I'm cold" haha. 

For me personally, I think SE England's summer temps are largely warm enough for my tastes, I just wish we had higher sunshine hours overall. 

IMO tha Baltics and Finland have very good climates in that regard. Poland also. Generally cold, wintry and lots of snow from Nov to March (but also often quite sunny), and plenty of sunny, dry weather from April to Sept but rarely too much "heat blasts" of humid 30c+. Very long useable days in summer too.

[In Absence of True Seasons]

 B87 Didn't know that about AccuWeather, interesting! I sometimes use their forecasts as they often seem a bit more positive/optimistic in outlook than the BBC and Met which often have proper doomcasts. 

This is the issue with the age of the internet I suppose...wealth of information at our fingertips, but we need to be astute as to validity of the information! 

[B87]

 In Absence of True Seasons I wouldn't call 18-25c a 'standard' summer day here either. 18c is 6c below average in July and almost 4c below average in June.

I think the vast majority of people would consider an 18c day in summer to be very poor. 

Edited February 28 by B87

[B87]

 danm Charlwood averages 820mm per year on 126 days, with an average of 8 rain days in July and 13 in January.

Manchester averages 870mm on 156 days, with 11 days in March and 16 days in December.

Charlwood summer highs are also 3c warmer, with an extra 300 sun hours annually.

[ANYWEATHER]

These precip charts are shockingly incorrect more often than not . It supposed to be dry at my location at this time , but as often the case it’s pouring with rain . It seems to me that all computer output regarding weather forecasts including rainfall has hit an all time low as regards reliability.

[Downburst]

I'd be a little worried about any high moving to Greenland as March progresses, I don't want to see that one bit as it can often follow with a 3 week coolish, but more importantly wet period with lows into general France area and fronts sitting over somewhere in the B Isles with low after low steering in behind. Last March for one and plenty of other recent Springs. Such an odd month March, who knows. Starting off wintry anyway, maybe the old adage will be true.

[Downburst]

 danm I've read it twice and all I can say as it reaffirms my belief on the modern world.

This is the science correspondent, no link to a paper and this bit "The powerful jet stream is a major influence on how weather systems move over Europe. When it's "kinked" the result is usually high pressure and hot air from southern Europe and Africa sitting over the UK." So there we have it 

Kink in Jetstream (no idea what ice melt conditions are needed for this) and the UK gets hot air and this is predictable the winter before. 

 

[raz.org.rain]

 Downburst if I remember right there's good evidence to suggest the jet stream is being pushed further north, I'd assume that would leave the UK at the mercy of more hotter continental influences going forward. 

[Markus03]

It's not that great in my country either. Sure, snow helps for a couple of months a year but overall the entire weather for the most part of the year is cloudy and it's depressing to look at. You can expect more sunny weather in Spain though. However it's not as rainy as it is in the UK. There's at least that.

Edited February 28 by Markus03

[Metwatch]

14 hours ago, danm said:

It wasn’t just Spring though. Mid July to mid August was excellent. As was September. On top of the exceptional Spring. 

I was away from mid July to mid August and even most of June and the first half of July I found weren't that bad either. June very thundery overall up here for the Midlands, with mid to late June having a fair amount of warmth and useable days. The first half of July not as great though but again quite a few nice days, just not much in the way of anything properly warm. Probably one of the best extended summers just behind 2022 and 2018 in recent years.

[danm]

 B87 Charlwood gets a fair amount more rain than London despite not being too far away.

[danm]

 Metwatch the only really “bad” part of Summer 2020 was that wet spell in late August, and the very start of June. Mid July to mid August was largely warm/hot and sunny. 

The rest of the Summer was a mixed bag. Some hot weather, e.g. late June. Some wetter and cooler weather. So typically British. 

[B87]

 danm it's the wrong side of the North Downs. You have to go quite far south to get London levels of precipitation or drier. Southsea gets 647mm per year and is a borderline Csb Mediterranean climate.

Shanklin averages 940mm and is the sunniest place in the UK with almost 2000 hours on average.

[danm]

Woo hoo!