Possible 30c

[Spirit of 1740]

Met Office confirm LWC as highest reading of the day at 30.3C

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/uk/uk_...st_weather.html

I guess this means it is official. Sigh. I don't think we'll have a shot at a year without 30C for many years to come, this was probably the best chance. One consolation is that that could very well be the highest reading of the year, and is still quite low, even in comparison with the period 1900-1970.

Still won't count. Back on 11th June, they listed Newry as having reached 28.6c, but that was discounted. Basic fact is we know the site is non-standard by their own rules and therefore it just can't count.

[Scorcher]

Still won't count. Back on 11th June, they listed Newry as having reached 28.6c, but that was discounted. Basic fact is we know the site is non-standard by their own rules and therefore it just can't count.

The BBC wouldn't have comfirmed it if it was a non-standard site. 30C has been reached- as much as a lot of you didn't want it to happen I'm afraid it's there in black and white.

[Optimus Prime]

I doubt they will count that rooftop site it's about as non-standard as you can get. If they do include it then they're practically breaking their own rules.

29.7c looks a lot more official to me. In fact that was the summer of 1993s maximum temperature. Could we equal that? In a very 1993 summer.

The BBC wouldn't have comfirmed it if it was a non-standard site. 30C has been reached- as much as a lot of you didn't want it to happen I'm afraid it's there in black and white.

The BBC don't seem to be able to get the important monthly reviews 100% correct so I doubt they have much self respect in the figures they put on a webpage.

[Spirit of 1740]

The BBC wouldn't have comfirmed it if it was a non-standard site. 30C has been reached- as much as a lot of you didn't want it to happen I'm afraid it's there in black and white.

LOL. Actually, the reverse. As much as you were obviously desperate for 30c, it hasn't been reached. Previous readings from LWC have not counted. I'm sure it was probably reached at a non-standard site in 1993, but for statistical purposes it wasn't achieved at a standard site. All seasoned observers across the weather forums agree on this point. You'll just have to accept that your wait for 30c goes on.

[Weather-history]

The BBC wouldn't have comfirmed it if it was a non-standard site. 30C has been reached- as much as a lot of you didn't want it to happen I'm afraid it's there in black and white.

Do you think the average Joe Bloggs in the street actually know what a standard exposure weather site is?

30.3C was recorded at the London Weather Centre station but they are not going to add the caveat that it is a non standard exposure site because to the vast majority of people it would mean nowt.

However, us lot on this site are a little more knowledgeable than that and we know there is a caveat with it.

Edited August 6, 2007 by Mr_Data

[Stu_London]

However, us lot on this site are a little more knowledgeable than that and we know there is a caveat with it.

Some of us

[Iceberg]

We always have this debate with LWC, it's both a standard and non standard site, it will not go into the climate records as the LWC site isn't used, but the figure is used(for many years) for reported daily temps.

I know this doesn't make sense other than the fact that it was the flag ship site.

Matt

[Upgrade]

We always have this debate with LWC, it's both a standard and non standard site, it will not go into the climate records as the LWC site isn't used, but the figure is used(for many years) for reported daily temps.

I know this doesn't make sense other than the fact that it was the flag ship site.

Matt

well i was sat out all day sunday in the garden & pub and it certainly "felt like" 30 degrees walking around, it was very hot. probably also felt v hot because it was a good 5 degrees above most other days this summer!

[Summer of 95]

Having been away from the site for a few days (enjoying our 26C and more sun than cloud ha ha) do I take it that as the reported 30C was at nonstandard LWC, that we're still on for a) no official 30C this year and b.) the highest temp being OUTSIDE the south east of England (that latter hasn't happened for 10 years while before the early 90s it happened regularly)?

Nice to see the hottest weather went north of Watford too even if it didn't fancy going west as well- would have been a crying shame to see a May-05 or Aug-03 style "southeast v the rest" set up ruin the first serious chance we've had of either a) or b.) coming off.

Edited August 7, 2007 by Summer of 95

[Spirit of 1740]

Having been away from the site for a few days (enjoying our 26C and more sun than cloud ha ha) do I take it that as the reported 30C was at nonstandard LWC, that we're still on for a) no official 30C this year and b.) the highest temp being OUTSIDE the south east of England (that latter hasn't happened for 10 years while before the early 90s it happened regularly)?

Nice to see the hottest weather went north of Watford too even if it didn't fancy going west as well- would have been a crying shame to see a May-05 or Aug-03 style "southeast v the rest" set up ruin the first serious chance we've had of either a) or b.) coming off.

Yes and Yes - so far.

[West is Best]

We always have this debate with LWC, it's both a standard and non standard site, it will not go into the climate records as the LWC site isn't used, but the figure is used(for many years) for reported daily temps.

I know this doesn't make sense other than the fact that it was the flag ship site.

Matt

It does make sense in some ways.

Anyway, it means we have had a 30C - that's the main thing for those who want to tick the box.

[DR Hosking]

im sure my car themometer measured 31 degrees, that doesn't make it official though! You can only call it so if its been measured by an official weather station set out to official Met Office standards. I could get a themometer from down the shops and stick it on a south facing wall directly in the sun and it would measure 35 degrees but that wouldn't be official! Anyway, im sure you are right, 30 degrees was probably got in some place, but it was not recorded at an official site so cannot be quoted in official figures.

[Optimus Prime]

My freezer read -18c, doesn't mean it's official

[Spirit of 1740]

It does make sense in some ways.

Anyway, it means we have had a 30C - that's the main thing for those who want to tick the box.

Fact is though that the box cannot be ticked. 29.7c was also the highest temperature on the warmest day of 1993. I am sure there were a few unofficial 30c readings that day. But the only thing people now remember about that year was the 29.7c was the highest temperature of the year because that was the highest at a standard site.

If 30c is not hit somewhere else, exactly the same will be the case for this year and the box will be left unticked.

[snowray]

Fact is though that the box cannot be ticked. 29.7c was also the highest temperature on the warmest day of 1993. I am sure there were a few unofficial 30c readings that day. But the only thing people now remember about that year was the 29.7c was the highest temperature of the year because that was the highest at a standard site.

If 30c is not hit somewhere else, exactly the same will be the case for this year and the box will be left unticked.

mmm, but are do we have an official 30c or not then? This is getting very confusing...As has been said before, how can they possibly consider the LWC rooftop site an official reading, its just crazy, would make far more sence if the Met Office set up a propper weather station in one of the parks in Central London....Not very green though I guess.

[West is Best]

Fact is though that the box cannot be ticked. 29.7c was also the highest temperature on the warmest day of 1993. I am sure there were a few unofficial 30c readings that day. But the only thing people now remember about that year was the 29.7c was the highest temperature of the year because that was the highest at a standard site.

If 30c is not hit somewhere else, exactly the same will be the case for this year and the box will be left unticked.

No because London recorded 30C.

Don't shoot me - if you don't like it take it up with the Met Office and the BBC. You'll find the Met Office official site has recorded 30C this year ... at their site in London. http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/ukweather/dai...007review.shtml

Edited August 7, 2007 by West is Best

[SP1986]

I think people need to be careful when talking about officiality. Official temperatures do not represent a diverse, dynamic world, they only represent conditions that are recorded from very strictly measured locations, therefore locations that have been picked because they represent the best rural temperature. Unfortunately as we live in a world where it is urbanised we need to take that into account too, so I think London rooftop measurements are as valid as site ones.

[West is Best]

That's a very good point Stephen.

Here's Rob McElwee's review of the day in question for the BBC weather site, with the maximum for the day cited as 30.3C:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/ukweather/dai...007review.shtml

I can understand people wanting to query the London Weather Centre, but that's a different issue. 30.3C was reached so we have a 30C this year already (we may get more of course). Issues about the integrity of the station would need further research papers to the point that the Met Office and BBC stopped quoting the figures completely. That they don't yet is proof enough for me that 30C has been reached.

But Stephen's point is also important. Supposing in 400 years time most of the planet is covered in concrete ... will we never record temperatures anymore?

[Spirit of 1740]

No because London recorded 30C.

Don't shoot me - if you don't like it take it up with the Met Office and the BBC. You'll find the Met Office official site has recorded 30C this year ... at their site in London.

I think you will find that when the highest temperature for this year is entered into the records that count, for example here:

http://www.personal.dundee.ac.uk/~taharley/hottest_days.htm

or the monthly summaries by Philip Eden maintained by the Royal Meteorological Society and the Met Office, I think you will find that the reading is not the one that is recorded. That's all that counts from my point of view.

And when people come to look back on this year in 10, 20 or 30 years that's all that will count for them too.

I think people need to be careful when talking about officiality. Official temperatures do not represent a diverse, dynamic world, they only represent conditions that are recorded from very strictly measured locations, therefore locations that have been picked because they represent the best rural temperature. Unfortunately as we live in a world where it is urbanised we need to take that into account too, so I think London rooftop measurements are as valid as site ones.

Yes, but official temps are the ones that one down in history and the ones that count for real comparative purposes of one year versus another.

As soon as you start accepting non-standard observations, you are not comparing like with like and you are also on the slippery slope to accepting anything at all. Why not take a temperature inside a greenhouse, that's as real world as anything else?

Edited August 7, 2007 by Spirit of 1740

[DR Hosking]

dont think were ever going to get any agreement on this, I go with what MR Data says as he seems to be the Guru on all things statistical, he says the London site is not used as an official climate site and as such will not count towards official figures, thats good enough for me!

[West is Best]

you are not comparing like with like

But I think to compare Personal Dundee and even Philip Eden with the Met Office/BBC is also not comparing like for like. The former are worthy, very worthy, sites but amateur ones nonetheless. The Met Office is official. The fact is that the 30.3C has been registered by both the Met Office and the BBC. There may be issues about urbanisation, which Stephen quite rightly raises, but in the review of that day's weather 30.3C has been recorded: http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/ukweather/dai...007review.shtml

[PB22]

I think at the end of the day, the cold rampers society will decide its not been reached, whilst the warm rampers society will say it has been. I'm going to wait til the end of the month when all stations have reported.

Like I said the other day, I hoped another site other than London Weather Centre reached 30C, as it was predictable this debate would start up!

[West is Best]

Like I said the other day, I hoped another site other than London Weather Centre reached 30C, as it was predictable this debate would start up!

Lol ... don't you just love us British and the weather?! I'm sure there are probably better things to argue about than whether the 30.3C is or is not counted, and if it is, by whom!

I suppose if one were to be in the midst of the Asian floods it would seem faintly ridiculous, or worse. Aren't we a terrible lot? (note to self)

[Spirit of 1740]

But I think to compare Personal Dundee and even Philip Eden with the Met Office/BBC is also not comparing like for like. The former are worthy, very worthy, sites but amateur ones nonetheless. The Met Office is official. The fact is that the 30.3C has been registered by both the Met Office and the BBC. There may be issues about urbanisation, which Stephen quite rightly raises, but in the review of that day's weather 30.3C has been recorded: http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/ukweather/dai...007review.shtml

Yes, but the whole point is that the figure won't even count for the MET office because that site is only used for daily readings and not for statistical and historical purposes, as pointed out by Mr Data and PJB on UKWW.

[SP1986]

Yes, but official temps are the ones that one down in history and the ones that count for real comparative purposes of one year versus another.

As soon as you start accepting non-standard observations, you are not comparing like with like and you are also on the slippery slope to accepting anything at all. Why not take a temperature inside a greenhouse, that's as real world as anything else?

I fully understand that, official temperatures re the ones that count for statistical historical records, and I do accept that accepting none standard is meandering away from absolute accuracy. However not all none-standard sites are innaccurate and therefore this means on that day regardless of official measurements, it was odds on there was a 30.0C> recorded somewhere, accurately in England.

Im sure you know what I meant by real world - obviously in open air where the temperature cannot be altered directly by humans, and where the atmosphere can play a free role, where something is not built to purposely alter temperatures for human use - ie Greenhouse..