In The News

[laserguy]

... we do something to halt the collapse?

Whadd'ya suggest,GW; moving the Earth a coupla million miles further from the sun?

[Gray-Wolf]

We're already effectively doing that with the Asian sulphate's L.G.! No , we need to halt the hemorrhaging of ice from the basin to allow it to mature into ice that can withstand 'average summers' at least? with the Canadian Archipelago now starting to accept Arctic ice over summer (now it's own ice is gone) we need to dam the entrances there and also to Nares with some giant stretch of pontoons to slow , and then halt the worst of Fram's losses?

I think we have got to help Nature do what nature does best and any recovery has to include wider survivability over summer and an aging, thickening pack that will ride even perfect storm synoptics?

We also need to address snow loss in spring? We need to tackle the albedo flip which appears to be at the base of this feedback loop?

[laserguy]

We're already effectively doing that with the Asian sulphate's L.G.!

Oh. For a moment I thought you were banging on about CO2 again! Great clip Pete - but who's the shouty guy with the 'tache? Seems familiar,somehow.

[pottyprof]

We're already effectively doing that with the Asian sulphate's L.G.! No , we need to halt the hemorrhaging of ice from the basin to allow it to mature into ice that can withstand 'average summers' at least?

Perhaps we could use the rods that they use to freeze the ground around the leaning tower of Pizza?

[keithlucky]

Talking about banging on about CO2 we were always told that the rise in CO2 would increase Hurricane hits (http://news.national...news/index.html)actually the opposite is occurring https://twitter.com/...9/photo/1/large

[Gray-Wolf]

Talking about banging on about CO2 we were always told that the rise in CO2 would increase Hurricane hits (http://news.national...news/index.html)actually the opposite is occurring https://twitter.com/...9/photo/1/large

? I thought we were told we'd have fewer 'Canes but those that survived the shear issues would end up making for larger storms ?

[knocker]

Well from a 2007 study.

Frequency of Atlantic hurricanes doubled over last century, climate change suspected

BOULDER--About twice as many Atlantic hurricanes form each year on average than a century ago, according to a new statistical analysis of hurricanes and tropical storms in the north Atlantic. The study concludes that warmer sea surface temperatures (SSTs) and altered wind patterns associated with global climate change are fueling much of the increase.

The study, by Greg Holland of the National Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR) and Peter Webster of Georgia Institute of Technology, will be published online July 30 in Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society of London.

"These numbers are a strong indication that climate change is a major factor in the increasing number of Atlantic hurricanes," says Holland.

The analysis identifies three periods since 1900, separated by sharp transitions, during which the average number of hurricanes and tropical storms increased dramatically and then remained elevated and relatively steady. The first period, between 1900 and 1930, saw an average of six Atlantic tropical cyclones (or major storms), of which four were hurricanes and two were tropical storms. From 1930 to 1940, the annual average increased to 10, consisting of five hurricanes and five tropical storms. In the final study period, from 1995 to 2005, the average reached 15, of which eight were hurricanes and seven were tropical storms.

This latter period has not yet stabilized, which means that the average hurricane season may be more active in the future. Holland and Webster caution, however, that it is not possible at this time to predict the level at which the frequency and intensity of storms will stabilize.

The increases over the last century correlate closely with SSTs, which have risen by about 1.3 degrees Fahrenheit in the last 100 years. The changes in SSTs took place in the years prior to the sharp increases in storm frequency, with an SST rise of approximately 0.7 degrees Fahrenheit leading up to 1930 and a similar rise leading up to 1995 and continuing even after. The authors note that other studies indicate that most of the rise in Atlantic SSTs can be attributed to global warming.

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2007-07/ncfa-foa_1072507.php

[4wd]

Is that 2007 piece cobbled together to make capital of 2004 and 2005 being above average?

Because claims of increased hurricanes are very shaky indeed.

This would appear to show something of a peak in the 1990s but a clear decline since then which is hardly a blip.

[4wd]

http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/admin/publication_files/resource-2476-2008.02.pdf

NOAA: Increased Hurricane Losses Due to More People, Wealth Along Coastlines, Not Stronger Storms

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE – February 21, 2008*** NEWS FROM NOAA ***

NATIONAL OCEANIC & ATMOSPHERIC ADMINISTRATION U. S. DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE WASHINGTON, DC

Contact: Dennis Feltgen, NOAA 305-229-4404Increased Hurricane Losses Due to More People,

Wealth Along Coastlines, Not Stronger Storms, New Study Says

A team of scientists have found that the economic damages from hurricanes have increased in the U.S. over time due to greater population, infrastructure, and wealth on the U.S. coastlines, and not to any spike in the number or intensity of hurricanes.

“We found that although some decades were quieter and less damaging in the U.S. and others had more land-falling hurricanes and more damage, the economic costs of land-falling hurricanes have steadily increased over time,†said Chris Landsea, one of the researchers as well as the science and operations officer at NOAA’s National Hurricane Center in Miami. “There is nothing in the U.S. hurricane damage record that indicates global warming has caused a significant increase in destruction along our coasts.â€

[knocker]

Is that 2007 piece cobbled together to make capital of 2004 and 2005 being above average?

Seems an odd comment to make about a paper published in the Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society of London. Have you any evidence to back up your implication of a hidden agenda. Or any scientific arguments which throws doubt on the authors findings over the past 100 years.

The full cobbled together study.

http://rsta.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/365/1860/2695.full.pdf#page=1&view=FitH

Edited October 11, 2012 by knocker

[Nights King]

We're already effectively doing that with the Asian sulphate's L.G.! No , we need to halt the hemorrhaging of ice from the basin to allow it to mature into ice that can withstand 'average summers' at least? with the Canadian Archipelago now starting to accept Arctic ice over summer (now it's own ice is gone) we need to dam the entrances there and also to Nares with some giant stretch of pontoons to slow , and then halt the worst of Fram's losses?

I think we have got to help Nature do what nature does best and any recovery has to include wider survivability over summer and an aging, thickening pack that will ride even perfect storm synoptics?

We also need to address snow loss in spring? We need to tackle the albedo flip which appears to be at the base of this feedback loop?

I like the idea of a giant dam of sorts... I wonder if we could change what a house's roof is made of and replace roof tiles with something that reflects radiation back out to help? surely on a large scale that could help?

[jethro]

I like the idea of a giant dam of sorts... I wonder if we could change what a house's roof is made of and replace roof tiles with something that reflects radiation back out to help? surely on a large scale that could help?

In theory it works....

"Painting roofs white and using light-coloured materials to surface roads and pavements would not only make cities cooler in summer, it would save the same amount of carbon as taking all the cars in the world off the roads for 50 years, a study has found."

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/painting-roofs-white-is-as-green-as-taking-cars-off-the-roads-for-50-years-says-study-7640770.html

Also: "Slowly but surely an extinct glacier in a remote corner of the Peruvian Andes is being returned to its former colour, not by falling snow or regenerated ice sheets, but by whitewash."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10333304

[Polar Maritime]

Experts: Global warming means more Antarctic ice

http://news.yahoo.com/experts-global-warming-means-more-antarctic-ice-194009890.html?fb_action_ids=10151430508989989&fb_action_types=news.reads&fb_ref=type%3Aread%2Cuser%3AzFDTADZTKXnVosURxAIBNVP2_wo&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map=%7B%2210151430508989989%22%3A541098849249754%7D&action_type_map=%7B%2210151430508989989%22%3A%22news.reads%22%7D&action_ref_map=%7B%2210151430508989989%22%3A%22type%3Aread%2Cuser%3AzFDTADZTKXnVosURxAIBNVP2_wo%22%7D&code=AQCuVrq7xo0hLQv6Jlv6mQgGwLp6TiQkGuPW_LHh34Lnl9tLdKPM3DLTVkdJLQ3FwBgvHN_PhmzRBohLMSZtGbxM8lHUP9_auIgzZEcX-IknILe1rqqHt4_Iw-qarfzKOxbTC0oGe3K96MlXe4lgB7dE-b1XuUK-dCBAslsLEbRWdXbX9QYA2E-f9aq2q1HNu41QJ8EKVoOmgnX3_EOiUtx9#_=_

[laserguy]

Experts: Global warming means more Antarctic ice

http://news.yahoo.co...nX3_EOiUtx9#_=_

Of course it does - global warming causes everything - including the polar opposite (!) of what the phrase actually states. The madness continues unabated.

[Methuselah]

Is 'global warming' really the polar opposite of 'Increased Antarctic Precipitation', barrie?

[knocker]

I like the idea of a giant dam of sorts... I wonder if we could change what a house's roof is made of and replace roof tiles with something that reflects radiation back out to help? surely on a large scale that could help?

A study on this a couple of years ago.

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2010-02/ncfa-cmd020110.php

[laserguy]

Is 'global warming' really the polar opposite of 'Increased Antarctic Precipitation', barrie?

If a rise in temps of a coupla degrees causing massive increase in snow and ice, does that count as warming?

[Methuselah]

Sorry barrie, but I cannot see how a rise in temperature, however 'small', can be called anything else (other than warming)...I know that companies 'cook their books' by making utterly ridiculous estimates of their expected future profits...But can global temperature be treated in the same way?

[BornFromTheVoid]

Global warming doesn't cause everything, only the things it can be proven/shown to cause.

Also, the Antarctic issue has the ozone hole problem mixed in with it.

[knocker]

The animation no longer works.

ESA satellites looking deeper into sea ice

5 October 2012

This year, satellites saw the extent of Arctic sea ice hit a record low since measurements began in the 1970s. ESA’s SMOS and CryoSat satellites are now taking a deeper look by measuring the volume of the sea-ice cover.

Measurements from ESA’s Soil Moisture and Ocean Salinity (SMOS) mission show that ice has thinned significantly in the seasonal ice zones, with extensive areas less than half a metre thick.

Sea ice has a large influence on the heat exchange between the ocean and the atmosphere. The heat flux can change depending on the sea-ice thickness and the air temperature. Sea ice is also affecting atmospheric circulation at mid-latitudes.

Although not originally designed for looking at ice, the SMOS satellite’s data are being evaluated to monitor Arctic sea ice.

The results reveal that radiation emitted by the ice allows SMOS to penetrate the surface, yielding ice-thickness measurements down to 50 cm – mainly the thinner and younger ice at the edge of the Arctic Ocean.

http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/Space_for_our_climate/SEMK64FRI7H_0.html

[Nights King]

In theory it works....

"Painting roofs white and using light-coloured materials to surface roads and pavements would not only make cities cooler in summer, it would save the same amount of carbon as taking all the cars in the world off the roads for 50 years, a study has found."

http://www.independe...dy-7640770.html

Also: "Slowly but surely an extinct glacier in a remote corner of the Peruvian Andes is being returned to its former colour, not by falling snow or regenerated ice sheets, but by whitewash."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10333304

Sounds like an interesting idea but I would have thought painting a mountain would be a temporary fix? what happens as the white paint gets erroded away etc? Could solve our heat islands though... If the glacier theory works I wonder if you could create glaciers in other places like scotland in locations that are favourable?

[Polar Maritime]

[laserguy]

Sorry barrie, but I cannot see how a rise in temperature, however 'small', can be called anything else (other than warming)...

Evidently true.... but if the net result is increases in precipitation/snow, that's in stark contrast to the oft-portrayed future of drought-blasted landscapes and parched crops etc etc. Never has 'ice-age' conditions been portrayed and I dare say the man in the street wouldn't notice a 1 or 2 degrees rise in world temps when he's up to his neck in a snowdrift. Like I consistently point out, it's all cobblers and yes,anything can,with a little imagination be a result of global warming if it serves the purpose.

[4wd]

http://www.dailymail...l#ixzz29E78OR9H

The world stopped getting warmer almost 16 years ago, according to new data released last week.

The figures, which have triggered debate among climate scientists, reveal that from the beginning of 1997 until August 2012, there was no discernible rise in aggregate global temperatures.

This means that the ‘plateau’ or ‘pause’ in global warming has now lasted for about the same time as the previous period when temperatures rose, 1980 to 1996. Before that, temperatures had been stable or declining for about 40 years.

Edited October 14, 2012 by 4wd

[Nights King]

http://www.dailymail...l#ixzz29E78OR9H

The world stopped getting warmer almost 16 years ago, according to new data released last week.

The figures, which have triggered debate among climate scientists, reveal that from the beginning of 1997 until August 2012, there was no discernible rise in aggregate global temperatures.

This means that the ‘plateau’ or ‘pause’ in global warming has now lasted for about the same time as the previous period when temperatures rose, 1980 to 1996. Before that, temperatures had been stable or declining for about 40 years.

Well I wonder if the low solar activity has much to do with it? Also if it continues I wonder how long the temperatures might stabalise or even fall.... Even if it did i'm sure there would be some excuse.