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Stratosphere and Polar Vortex Watch 2020


SqueakheartLW

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Posted
  • Location: Lincolnshire - 15m asl
  • Weather Preferences: Frost and snow. A quiet autumn day is also good.
  • Location: Lincolnshire - 15m asl
18 minutes ago, chionomaniac said:

 

Zoiks - responses flying in. Going to update this post when I've got time later to chew through more of the links....

Edited by Catacol
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Posted
  • Location: st albans
  • Location: st albans

Today’s ec46 builds a high anomoly over W Canada period around 20th dec which then reduces. The zonal flow is above average throughout nov but drops back a little in dec and still no strong steer for the final month of the year. 

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Posted
  • Location: Scunthorpe
  • Location: Scunthorpe

image.thumb.png.cc32c42ee177a3ba3359ae67b5a49fcb.png

Looks like the next WQBO is making its move now. Those brown colours are now starting to descend down from 10hpa.

Shouldn't be any issues for this coming winter but it would seem this EQBO is going to be a shorter than average one by the looks of things unless we see a repeat of the EQBO then WQBO descent we experienced between 1999 and 2001 where it took a long time to get the EQBO down from 10hpa to 100hpa and as a result the following WQBO got delayed too, taking until late 2001 to get down to below 30hpa

image.thumb.png.502b578596c468a4903d30f6f13d2d03.png

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Posted
  • Location: Efford, Plymouth
  • Weather Preferences: Misty Autumn Mornings, Thunderstorms and snow
  • Location: Efford, Plymouth
21 hours ago, SqueakheartLW said:

image.thumb.png.cc32c42ee177a3ba3359ae67b5a49fcb.png

Looks like the next WQBO is making its move now. Those brown colours are now starting to descend down from 10hpa.

Shouldn't be any issues for this coming winter but it would seem this EQBO is going to be a shorter than average one by the looks of things unless we see a repeat of the EQBO then WQBO descent we experienced between 1999 and 2001 where it took a long time to get the EQBO down from 10hpa to 100hpa and as a result the following WQBO got delayed too, taking until late 2001 to get down to below 30hpa

image.thumb.png.502b578596c468a4903d30f6f13d2d03.png

Funny just looking at the Singapore soundings and I thought exactly the same- just as the E QBO hits the magically 21km and firmly into the Troposphere. It's taken its time but seems to be descending  very quickly now. Early days but it's nailed on EQBO winter this year.

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Posted
  • Location: st albans
  • Location: st albans
2 hours ago, Griff said:

Not as bad as the latest GFS run! 

20211115200258-aae9a77a922a73b5f6db8abd14f93b12c6b38d0a.png

Surprised to see so much placed behind a single gfs run!

the ec46 has steadily drifted away from a weaker than average spv and is now pretty solidly behind one that is on the stronger than average side as we head through December. 

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Posted
  • Location: Lincolnshire - 15m asl
  • Weather Preferences: Frost and snow. A quiet autumn day is also good.
  • Location: Lincolnshire - 15m asl
14 hours ago, bluearmy said:

Surprised to see so much placed behind a single gfs run!

the ec46 has steadily drifted away from a weaker than average spv and is now pretty solidly behind one that is on the stronger than average side as we head through December. 

We have lost the signal for the ScEuro High and Aleutian Low a bit - and that is working through the long term forecast I think. What will be interesting to see will be the impact of the solidly eQBO on the vortex as we head through December and whether it sets it up more readily for knocking or splitting as we move into January. The early Nina ridge promoting a scandy trough didnt feel like a useful precursor to strat disruption early season - a mid January SSW has been my best guess and it is built on the expectation that early cold in December will moderate and fade into a pattern by the second half of the month that sees the ScEuro or Ural High return. We will see.

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Posted
  • Location: Efford, Plymouth
  • Weather Preferences: Misty Autumn Mornings, Thunderstorms and snow
  • Location: Efford, Plymouth

image.thumb.png.73413f24de0265bc4f0c1bb20278b5ea.png

I think looking at the soundings for QBO- the signs of the Westerly QBO are appearing very clearly in the Strat now and starting to both power up and start the long slide down. Won't affect this winter as highlighted in posts above- but will make 2022 a strengthening WQBO.   

The failure about 14 months ago seems to have done us a favour going forward......

Edit- did some digging on QBO and it appears the fabled failure of 2016/2017  and 2019 may, may have happened back in autumn of 1964 with a descending EQBO being cut off (not too dissimilar to 2019 with the WQBO strengthening from surface to Strat. This led to a very long WQBO in the Strat from 1964 to 1967 before descending. 

 

Interestingly- the next EQBO was 1968-69- and was much shorter as well (as appears to be happening this year)

 

Osprey et al..pdf (hawaii.edu) has the paper. Interesting stuff.

Edited by philglossop
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Posted
  • Location: Longton, Stoke-on-Trent.
  • Location: Longton, Stoke-on-Trent.
On 18/11/2021 at 20:04, Griff said:

Ecm zonal latest, pretty much on the mean / average just about, all things considered not terrible... 

20211118200249-b38de6241dbce15f46474548ed7b170cf640f29f.png

Not Great Ok GIF by Sky España

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Posted
  • Location: @scotlandwx
  • Weather Preferences: Crystal Clear High Pressure & Blue Skies
  • Location: @scotlandwx

This years prediction competition is up and running in the Twittersphere. 

10 part tweet thread from Daniela Domeisen here contains lots of great detail.

 

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Posted
  • Location: Crewe, Cheshire
  • Weather Preferences: Snow, storms and other extremes
  • Location: Crewe, Cheshire
On 18/11/2021 at 20:04, Griff said:

Ecm zonal latest, pretty much on the mean / average just about, all things considered not terrible... 

20211118200249-b38de6241dbce15f46474548ed7b170cf640f29f.png

That mean is dragged down by the few strong reversals. Looks to me that the main grouping is above average?

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Posted
  • Location: South Oxfordshire
  • Location: South Oxfordshire
6 minutes ago, CreweCold said:

That mean is dragged down by the few strong reversals. Looks to me that the main grouping is above average?

Equally the mean is being dragged up by a few above average members... No doubt more will be revealed come Monday.  

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Posted
  • Location: Scunthorpe
  • Location: Scunthorpe

There may be some doom and gloom from some who are disappointed the polar vortex has become stronger than average but need not panic when taking a look at how 60N zonal winds have trended vs last year

image.thumb.png.58adc624b24343ee1e34650abba4dc83.png

We have on the most part trended slower with zonal winds than last year and are predicted to become weaker than last year on the zonal wind front if the GEFS are to be believed

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Posted
  • Location: Lincolnshire - 15m asl
  • Weather Preferences: Frost and snow. A quiet autumn day is also good.
  • Location: Lincolnshire - 15m asl

End of the month - good looking wave pattern for strat disruption. Rockies and Urals in action.

image.thumb.png.27c2d1cfcb36872f677ad7c43f59d311.png

Nothing showing up yet on the strat charts to suggest any disruption - but won't be too far away now.....

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Posted
  • Location: st albans
  • Location: st albans
9 hours ago, Catacol said:

End of the month - good looking wave pattern for strat disruption. Rockies and Urals in action.

image.thumb.png.27c2d1cfcb36872f677ad7c43f59d311.png

Nothing showing up yet on the strat charts to suggest any disruption - but won't be too far away now.....

More than just signs on extended gfs/gefs of the spv being displaced back to n Asia 

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Posted
  • Location: Lincolnshire - 15m asl
  • Weather Preferences: Frost and snow. A quiet autumn day is also good.
  • Location: Lincolnshire - 15m asl
3 hours ago, bluearmy said:

More than just signs on extended gfs/gefs of the spv being displaced back to n Asia 

Ideal. Push it off its axis into Asia, fire up a huge +NAO signature running up against a ScEuro signal as we move into the second half of December, and drive a warm spear up into the displaced vortex over Xmas while the Aleutian Low hangs on and keeps the pressure up. Massive split, vortex shard drop into Europe, cold air spilling out everywhere in January. Effectively the 2018 pattern but 2 months earlier.

Not too much to ask, is it?!

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Posted
  • Location: Wantage, Oxon
  • Weather Preferences: Hot, cold!
  • Location: Wantage, Oxon
5 hours ago, Catacol said:

Ideal. Push it off its axis into Asia, fire up a huge +NAO signature running up against a ScEuro signal as we move into the second half of December, and drive a warm spear up into the displaced vortex over Xmas while the Aleutian Low hangs on and keeps the pressure up. Massive split, vortex shard drop into Europe, cold air spilling out everywhere in January. Effectively the 2018 pattern but 2 months earlier.

Not too much to ask, is it?!

You make it sound so easy!  But as I have said before it is putting all our chips on a SSW for jam tomorrow when there may be other options closer to now.  I know you have said that cold is very unlikely these days without a SSW, so, effectively why bother!,  but I think the early part of this winter will test that.  Although the Greenland heights suggested by the models a week or so are watered down (it was never modelled a true Greenland high anyway), there is equally nothing to suggest a return to zonal.  A return to zonal after about 10 months now.  So I want to see that one out first, before chasing a SSW because I don’t think the trop precursors are there at the moment.  

Edited by Mike Poole
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Posted
  • Location: Wantage, Oxon
  • Weather Preferences: Hot, cold!
  • Location: Wantage, Oxon

Stratobserve charts for todays GFS 0z run ridiculous:

C9FF0644-98AF-4B5C-BC4D-6AE4BA13CC61.thumb.png.747cff76049bc1db88d224f8400fa89a.png

Not sure what caused that.  Assuming that is a one off, strat vortex remains strong.  ECM T240 from Berlin:

74B40998-ABF0-41F3-9138-BF1F7903AB87.thumb.png.7f4836069427f34af22c5ef8bcc72242.pngE1035840-25CD-4619-BA55-65A0BA3E57B6.thumb.png.5636b1f5fbfdf0597b1a7ca509a49d5f.png

I know others think otherwise but I favour a strong vortex now while it is not coupled to the trop.  One reason, that will make it less likely to couple sooner and to give the current trop patterns, which are interesting, to play out.  Second, if a SSW is going to do anything for us this year, it would be as a split, and I think that is more likely when the strat vortex is obliterated from a strong not weak base.  My bet SSW 15/1/22.  

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