Temperature Record Monitor Thread

[ShinyDave]

14 minutes ago, Scorcher said:

Sounds a bit high that when compared to the stations further south such as Doncaster. Will be interesting to see if it stands up to scrutiny.

Indeed. I would have guessed a Foehn effect helping an isolated more northerly spot but the topography doesn't even seem to fit that. That said, at least one model run genuinely had the absolute maxima pretty close to that spot IIRC, between Leeds and Hull.

Again, the fact a 39 in the heart of Yorkshire can even draw a question of "is it real or just a bit off?" is not a question we ever thought we'd ask until... well, let's be honest, even when the first model runs started floating it as a legit possibility we didn't think we'd ask it for real, did we?

The meta-picture is just astonishing. We'll never forget this day.

[hillbilly]

11 minutes ago, ShinyDave said:

Indeed. I would have guessed a Foehn effect helping an isolated more northerly spot but the topography doesn't even seem to fit that. That said, at least one model run genuinely had the absolute maxima pretty close to that spot IIRC, between Leeds and Hull.

Again, the fact a 39 in the heart of Yorkshire can even draw a question of "is it real or just a bit off?" is not a question we ever thought we'd ask until... well, let's be honest, even when the first model runs started floating it as a legit possibility we didn't think we'd ask it for real, did we?

The meta-picture is just astonishing. We'll never forget this day.

I certainly think my high reading had a Fohn component,it suddenly became windy for the 20 mins of so which is when my highest reading was at 3.30pm.Doncaster is not far from Bramham,the Southerly breeze will have travelled straight North ,i cannot see why the reading would be wrong when 40 deg was reached ower a 200 mile strip between London and Doncaster so why not the 25 miles further at Bramham.

[cheese]

51 minutes ago, Scorcher said:

Sounds a bit high that when compared to the stations further south such as Doncaster. Will be interesting to see if it stands up to scrutiny.

Doncaster reports rounded figures, so it could have been anywhere between 39.5C and 40.4C. Topcliffe, north of York, recorded 39.6C, so there’s nothing anomalous about Bramham’s figure. The area between Leeds and York is frequently the hottest part of Yorkshire during heatwaves so it’s nothing out of the ordinary. 

Edited July 19, 2022 by cheese

[Polar Maritime]

Well. It's been a record breaker today that's for sure..

[Wold Topper]

5 minutes ago, Polar Maritime said:

Well. It's been a record breaker today that's for sure..

Totally! i have been on NW from first thing this morning (took day off ) right through the day, it has made for some fascinating reading from all the NW contributers all over the country! Although today was too hot for me outside personally, i just took solace in here! Oh and well done Mods for keeping things rolling on what must have been a busy day,

[sunnijim]

In 2019 I think I am right in saying that the Cambridge record was declared a few days later.38.7c

I think the highest readings on the day were just shy of the 2003 record of 38.4c ( that was also a late confirmation)

Given that scenario there is a chance of 41c being confirmed and verified today given that 40.3c would only need to be 'topped up' by 0.7c. ( also 40c today was reasonably common)

Edited July 19, 2022 by sunnijim

[North-Easterly Blast]

It has just been posted on the Met Office hourly observation data that the highest day value for the 19th was 39.9*C at Scampton, so it appears that no reading above 40.0*C has been validated.  It was posted on various news reports that the highest observed reading was 40.3*C at Coningsby, Lincolnshire, plus that Heathrow got to 40.2, and a couple of other sites in the London area got over 40.0.  

I think that all the above matters need investigation - given that 40.2 and 40.3 were widely remarked upon as being the highest values for the now hottest day ever in the UK, they really need investigating as to how they were measured and recorded - now the Met Office are saying that the maximum was only 39.9 at Scampton - so there now looks to be a chance that nowhere in the UK got to 40.0*C+.

[Derecho]

8 minutes ago, North-Easterly Blast said:

It has just been posted on the Met Office hourly observation data that the highest day value for the 19th was 39.9*C at Scampton, so it appears that no reading above 40.0*C has been validated.  It was posted on various news reports that the highest observed reading was 40.3*C at Coningsby, Lincolnshire, plus that Heathrow got to 40.2, and a couple of other sites in the London area got over 40.0.  

I think that all the above matters need investigation - given that 40.2 and 40.3 were widely remarked upon as being the highest values for the now hottest day ever in the UK, they really need investigating as to how they were measured and recorded - now the Met Office are saying that the maximum was only 39.9 at Scampton - so there now looks to be a chance that nowhere in the UK got to 40.0*C+.

Got a link? Met Office posted an hour ago on twitter that Conningsby was the max still at 40.3C.

[Mapantz]

What about Waddington and Northolt? Also, Charlwood and Cranwell made 39.9°C.

[North-Easterly Blast]

UK observations map - Met Office

WWW.METOFFICE.GOV.UK

---

Weather observations for UK over the past 24 hours including a map to view recent weather data, timeline and observations table

 

If you follow the above link, at the foot of the observation map, at around midnight at the end of each day the UK extremes are published, and it quotes 39.9 at Scampton as being the highest day temperature for the 19th.  From this it appears that there is a chance that 40.0*C or more was not reached.  Based on this, I think an investigation needs to be carried out as to if the 40.3 at Coningsby and the 40.2 at Heathrow are reliable readings.

Edited July 19, 2022 by North-Easterly Blast

[Derecho]

3 minutes ago, North-Easterly Blast said:

UK observations map - Met Office

WWW.METOFFICE.GOV.UK

---

Weather observations for UK over the past 24 hours including a map to view recent weather data, timeline and observations table

If you follow the above link, at the foot of the observation map, at around midnight at the end of each day the UK extremes are published, and it quotes 39.9 at Scampton as being the highest day temperature for the 19th.  From this it appears that there is a chance that 40.0*C or more was not reached.  Based on this, I think an investigation needs to be carried out as to if the 40.3 at Coningsby and the 40.2 at Heathrow are reliable readings.

Oh yeah. Odd, I can only presume the following applies under the 'more info' tab?:

'The information shown is initial data as it is received; observations are subject to final quality control after publication on this website. This is particularly the case for rainfall totals during snow events.

[East_England_Stormchaser91]

Only in the UK could we make a complete shambles on how an official temperature is measured! I saw 40c on XCweather for a good couple of hours at Coningsby. There’s no doubt temperatures would have got above that locally too, official or not. 

[North-Easterly Blast]

It is a complete shambles that news reports said that Coningsby and Heathrow got to 40.3 and 40.2 respectively, and then at the end of the day posting information on the observation map extremes page that the highest day temperature was 39.9 at Scampton, which is making out that the Coningsby and Heathrow readings were not reliable or even true, and at the very least it implies that the readings quoted on the Met Office twitter site are not validated.  

I hope that the Met Office make a post or statement in the days ahead as to what the highest officially validated reading was for the UK's hottest day ever.  If we were talking of a more modest hot spell where the highest maximum mentioned was something like 30.3 and the observation page extremes section quotes 29.9 then it would be less important to investigate it properly but when we are talking about the UK's hottest day in recorded meteorological history then it is clearly important that an official statement is made as to what the highest official reading was.

Edited July 20, 2022 by North-Easterly Blast

[cheese]

3 minutes ago, North-Easterly Blast said:

It is a complete shambles that news reports said that Coningsby and Heathrow got to 40.3 and 40.2 respectively, and then at the end of the day posting information on the observation map extremes page that the highest day temperature was 39.9 at Scampton, which is making out that the Coningsby and Heathrow readings were not reliable or even true, and at the very least it implies that the readings quoted on the Met Office twitter site are not validated.

I think you’re reading into it too much. 

[audiotech]

It was said that they were provisional readings on the news reports. I think Met Office are confident in the readings to report them as provisional to the media but want to take the time to double and triple check everything before writing it into the history books. Don't they have to send out officers to inspect all the measurement equipment when a new temperature record is set, I seem to remember that happened with Cambridge in 2019?

[mb018538]

5 hours ago, audiotech said:

It was said that they were provisional readings on the news reports. I think Met Office are confident in the readings to report them as provisional to the media but want to take the time to double and triple check everything before writing it into the history books. Don't they have to send out officers to inspect all the measurement equipment when a new temperature record is set, I seem to remember that happened with Cambridge in 2019?

They did yeah. Plus it was a few days after the event. The reading at Waddington yesterday has already been discounted due to the station not being up to standard.
As I mentioned yesterday- there is a chance Botanic Gardens will report 40c+ today, as the other official site here recorded 39.9c yesterday and is usually a bit lower.
 

 

Edited July 20, 2022 by mb018538

[Djdazzle]

Are they saying that all of the stations that reported over 40 being discounted?

[mb018538]

12 minutes ago, Djdazzle said:

Are they saying that all of the stations that reported over 40 being discounted?

Not that I'm aware of. This was tweeted by Dan Harris at the Met Office. Someone else has commented with a location map of the station at RAF Waddington....looks dodgy to me anyway. Why stick it next to all that concrete? No wonder the WMO have raised concerns over the site and not given it a good rating...
 

 

 

Edited July 20, 2022 by mb018538

[Athens Heat]

49 minutes ago, Djdazzle said:

Are they saying that all of the stations that reported over 40 being discounted?

I think they are checking the readings to make sure everything was ok. As long as the stations are Stevenson Screen or automatic fan aspirated then there is no reason for the readings to be discounted. For example Coningsby is a passive automatic station so there must be a T bias there. Waddington on the other hand seems a Stevenson Screen so I am not sure why people say its been rejected.

Especially if we are talking about fan aspirated stations then these are extremely reliable readings even if a station is located in totally urban locations.  So far the highest fan aspirated reading I have found for anywhere in the UK yesterday is 39.3C in two Davis stations located in London. However, I have checked only a handful of them. Its a huge task to check one by one all Davis stations in the UK.

If anyone has a Davis fan aspirated station which registered over 40C yesterday please let us know! 

Edited July 20, 2022 by Athens Heat

[Djdazzle]

Maybe Brogdale has stolen it?

[Athens Heat]

1 hour ago, mb018538 said:

 

 

 

This tweet is not entirely correct. If a Stevenson Screen station is relatively new with modern technology and well maintained then T biases are minimal. However the golden standard is fan aspiration. That's why more and more metoffices around the world are rapidly switching to fan aspirated automatic stations (especially Davis ones). This gives you the advantage to have extremely reliable temperature readings even in the most urban environments.

Edited July 20, 2022 by Athens Heat

[hillbilly]

31 minutes ago, Athens Heat said:

I think they are checking the readings to make sure everything was ok. As long as the stations are Stevenson Screen or automatic fan aspirated then there is no reason for the readings to be discounted. For example Coningsby is a passive automatic station so there must be a T bias there. Waddington on the other hand seems a Stevenson Screen so I am not sure why people say its been rejected.

Especially if we are talking about fan aspirated stations then these are extremely reliable readings even if a station is located in totally urban locations.  So far the highest fan aspirated reading I have found for anywhere in the UK yesterday is 39.3C in two Davis stations located in London. However, I have checked only a handful of them. Its a huge task to check one by one all Davis stations in the UK.

If anyone has a Davis fan aspirated station which registered over 40C yesterday please let us know! 

Really dont know why the Met office dont get this sorted.Either they must have fans or not .Why is there no research to prove wether fanless v fans makes any difference and if so how much.They could relocate some temperature stations such as Heathrow or Waddington but compare the new site to the existing to find out once and for all wether being close to a runway/concrete/tarmac areas makes any difference and how much.

[Athens Heat]

9 minutes ago, hillbilly said:

Really dont know why the Met office dont get this sorted.Either they must have fans or not .Why is there no research to prove wether fanless v fans makes any difference and if so how much.They could relocate some temperature stations such as Heathrow or Waddington but compare the new site to the existing to find out once and for all wether being close to a runway/concrete/tarmac areas makes any difference and how much.

There is research that shows passive stations are prone to T biases. However, Stevenson Screen stations are also perfectly reliable if properly maintained despite being fanless. Both Heathrow and Waddington are Stevenson Screen stations from what I understand so there is no reason for their values to be discounted even if not placed in ideal surroundings provided of course they are properly maintained and correctly calibrated to avoid any T biases.

Meteorology has relied on Stevenson Screen stations like for ever..

Edited July 20, 2022 by Athens Heat

[Evening thunder]

Odd.. maybe the website breaks if they put in a value higher than 39.9 

Wasn't there several readings just above 40C including from 4 sites in and around London?

 

Any official readings will be from a Stevenson screen which should have been well ventilated yesterday given the brisk breeze.

[Athens Heat]

12 minutes ago, Evening thunder said:

Odd.. maybe the website breaks if they put in a value higher than 39.9 

Wasn't there several readings just above 40C including from 4 sites in and around London?

 

Any official readings will be from a Stevenson screen which should have been well ventilated yesterday given the brisk breeze.

Yeah, I wouldn't pay too much attention to that. Obviously 40s is something new in the UK. The Met Office needs to check them thoroughly. Just keep checking the official twitter account of the Met Office and we will soon know. Northolt, Kew Gardens, Heathrow, Waddington, St. James's Park, Gringley all registered 40+ and are all Stevenson Screen. There must be good reasons to reject their values. 

Coningsby on the other hand is passive automatic. I would reject this value far easier. 

Edited July 20, 2022 by Athens Heat