Autumn 2023

[legion_quest]

1 minute ago, stainesbloke said:

It wasn’t a below average summer based on temperature alone. Of course, it’s not particularly scientific to exclude all other statistics and data, such as sunshine totals, rainfall, wind speeds, etc. All of which are just as important but somehow seem to get non-scientifically missed out/ignored by some?

That's why my point very clearly states "it would be scientifically wrong to say this was a below average summer temperature wise" so as to not include those other things. If we did, then yes, it was wetter than average. Im not sure about sunlight totals, but the point being made above was temperatures were higher than average.

[stainesbloke]

Just now, legion_quest said:

That's why my point very clearly states "it would be scientifically wrong to say this was a below average summer temperature wise" so as to not include those other things. If we did, then yes, it was wetter than average. Im not sure about sunlight totals, but the point being made above was temperatures were higher than average.

Yes, they were, am definitely not arguing that. 

[legion_quest]

I do also think that Alderc 2.0's metaphor of the meal is a fair one though. 

The temps being above average dont mean much if it's wet and raining out. Everyone has their ideal of what a summer should be, and this summer has certainly not met that for many when considering that for most, that would mean sunshine and brightness, not just temperatures. 

[NEVES SCREAMER]

1 hour ago, *Stormforce~beka* said:

Got space for me in your burrow?

Plenty of room . A beer fridge and everything

[stainesbloke]

1 minute ago, legion_quest said:

I do also think that Alderc 2.0's metaphor of the meal is a fair one though. 

The temps being above average dont mean much if it's wet and raining out. Everyone has their ideal of what a summer should be, and this summer has certainly not met that for many when considering that for most, that would mean sunshine and brightness, not just temperatures. 

Absolutely, and this is why statistics don’t pick up nuanced details so well. For example, one of the biggest reasons the temperatures were above average was due to a plethora of warm, cloudy nights. Completely useless to anyone if the days are cloudy and the same/similar temperature. For me, sunshine/brightness is the all-important detail, not so much temperature 

[Arctic Hare]

1 minute ago, stainesbloke said:

Absolutely, and this is why statistics don’t pick up nuanced details so well. For example, one of the biggest reasons the temperatures were above average was due to a plethora of warm, cloudy nights. Completely useless to anyone if the days are cloudy and the same/similar temperature. For me, sunshine/brightness is the all-important detail, not so much temperature 

Absolutely this, though for me temps are important, but (once we're out of potentially frosty/snowy months) daytime temps are vastly more relevant to me than night-time ones. A week of fresh, breezy, sunny days with maxes of 22 and mins of 8 has a lower overall CET than a week of humid, overcast murk with maxes of 17 and mins of 13, but I know which one I'd rather experience.

[cheese]

22C with sunny intervals. Pleasant. 

[stainesbloke]

13 minutes ago, Arctic Hare said:

Absolutely this, though for me temps are important, but (once we're out of potentially frosty/snowy months) daytime temps are vastly more relevant to me than night-time ones. A week of fresh, breezy, sunny days with maxes of 22 and mins of 8 has a lower overall CET than a week of humid, overcast murk with maxes of 17 and mins of 13, but I know which one I'd rather experience.

Agree. Temperature is of obvious importance, but so are all the other statistics/data. I’d certainly prefer the 22 max / 8 min scenario to the other one, sadly the other one is all too prevalent 

[Metwatch]

Sunshine and rainfall is arguably more important than temperature for rating the summer season, and to an extent spring as well. 

[stainesbloke]

7 minutes ago, Metwatch said:

Sunshine and rainfall is arguably more important than temperature for rating the summer season, and to an extent spring as well. 

I’d say they’re all of equal importance, but temperature is often regarded as the only important factor, which to me isn’t particularly scientific  

[Mapantz]

Sunshine stats for July & August were awful here.

I recorded 150.2 hours for July. Second dullest in at least 12 years (my own station data) Met Office average is 234.3 hours.

August came in with 135.9 hours. Dullest for 12 years (my own station data) Met Office average is 218 hours.

Both July and August  were the second wettest in 12 years.

[Addicks Fan 1981]

36 minutes ago, stainesbloke said:

Absolutely, and this is why statistics don’t pick up nuanced details so well. For example, one of the biggest reasons the temperatures were above average was due to a plethora of warm, cloudy nights. Completely useless to anyone if the days are cloudy and the same/similar temperature. For me, sunshine/brightness is the all-important detail, not so much temperature 

The met office suggested nationwide that the summer had 11% more rain and 6% more sunshine than normal throughout the whole summer season.   I look at things personally from a blanket kind of perspective.   There's been much worse summers than this year and I think other factors tied in with our weather disrupted our summer a bit.   

[stainesbloke]

1 minute ago, Addicks Fan 1981 said:

The met office suggested nationwide that the summer had 11% more rain and 6% more sunshine than normal throughout the whole summer season.   I look at things personally from a blanket kind of perspective.   There's been much worse summers than this year and I think other factors tied in with our weather disrupted our summer a bit.   

Fair enough, though ‘nationwide’ isn’t always particularly specific/useful. I agree we’ve had worse summers, this one could’ve been worse though a large part of it wasn’t great

[Daniel*]

Happy birthday to me, the years seem to be going too fast now…. a very nice morning and early afternoon. Cloud cover becoming a bit more extensive now. I don’t remember the last rainy birthday to be honest. 

[Daniel*]

1 hour ago, stainesbloke said:

It wasn’t a below average summer based on temperature alone. Of course, it’s not particularly scientific to exclude all other statistics and data, such as sunshine totals, rainfall, wind speeds, etc. All of which are just as important but somehow seem to get non-scientifically missed out/ignored by some?

For Heathrow. July and August was slightly below average, an exceptionally warm June made a huge difference. 

June 
Mean Max: 25.3C (+3.7C)
Mean Min: 13.5C (+1.5C) 
Mean T: 19.4C (+2.6C) 

July 
Mean Max: 22.9C (-1C)
Mean Min:  14C (-0.2C) 
Mean T: 18.5C (-0.6C) 

August
Mean Max: 23C (-0.4C) 
Mean Min: 13.8C (-0.3C) 
Mean T: 18.4C (-0.4C) 

Summer Mean T: 18.8C (+0.6C) 
Wrt 1991-2020 average 

[danm]

26c with sunny spells at the moment. Lovely and warm out there. 

[stainesbloke]

17 minutes ago, danm said:

26c with sunny spells at the moment. Lovely and warm out there. 

Completely overcast at Heathrow, no blue sky whatsoever. 25°C so still feeling warm 

Edited September 11, 2023 by stainesbloke

[danm]

4 minutes ago, stainesbloke said:

Completely overcast at Heathrow, no blue sky whatsoever. 24°C so still feeling warm 

Cloud is spilling in from the west. It's gotten cloudier here too, still some sunny spells but not as much as earlier. 

[MP-R]

49 minutes ago, stainesbloke said:

Fair enough, though ‘nationwide’ isn’t always particularly specific/useful. I agree we’ve had worse summers, this one could’ve been worse though a large part of it wasn’t great

And as the more switched on amongst us know, most of that summer sunshine percentage is down to June alone. Stats telling half the story again...

[sundog]

17c and raining here ,humidity and heat gone.

[In Absence of True Seasons]

1 hour ago, Metwatch said:

Sunshine and rainfall is arguably more important than temperature for rating the summer season, and to an extent spring as well. 

Agree. Anyone who has experienced summer rains in more tropical/warmer climes can attest to that!

30c is redundant when its torrential rain and 100% overcast for days....

[alexisj9]

2 hours ago, legion_quest said:

Those saying the temperatures have been above average are right, scientifically. 

Those saying that the summer was poor, due to a lack of blazing sun, are right objectively. 

Haven't we already had this debate ad nauseum? 

The world is warming, and temps are almost always above average on the mean - but that doesnt mean people experienced the sunny type of summer weather they wanted/mentally associate with a good summer - but it would be scientifically wrong to say this was a below average summer temperature wise regardless of how it felt to you/your preference. 

Yep totally agree. I was just relieved we didn't have last week in July, would have been even worse. Temp has dropped humidity plus sun hasn't, so I'm still melting, but it was cool enough to get some gardening done at last. Now I've found out, I just need some rain to make forking easier. It's dried up lol.

2 hours ago, stainesbloke said:

It wasn’t a below average summer based on temperature alone. Of course, it’s not particularly scientific to exclude all other statistics and data, such as sunshine totals, rainfall, wind speeds, etc. All of which are just as important but somehow seem to get non-scientifically missed out/ignored by some?

Not by me, but even July was near average for sun down here, near but below.

[alexisj9]

1 hour ago, Addicks Fan 1981 said:

The met office suggested nationwide that the summer had 11% more rain and 6% more sunshine than normal throughout the whole summer season.   I look at things personally from a blanket kind of perspective.   There's been much worse summers than this year and I think other factors tied in with our weather disrupted our summer a bit.   

If you take August out of the equation, was basically average for everything, take June and July, avarage them, it would still be average, those to months when talking in average, cancel each other out. June account for the lion share of the slight below average rain full for the three months.

[*Stormforce~beka*]

2 hours ago, NEVES SCREAMER said:

Plenty of room . A beer fridge and everything

I'm in love ... We need a log fire too!! I'm packing ready now ...

[In Absence of True Seasons]

1 hour ago, Addicks Fan 1981 said:

The met office suggested nationwide that the summer had 11% more rain and 6% more sunshine than normal throughout the whole summer season.   I look at things personally from a blanket kind of perspective.   There's been much worse summers than this year and I think other factors tied in with our weather disrupted our summer a bit.   

Yes, when taking the season 'in totality' that's what will show due to the very sunny, very dry and warm June. July was virtually the opposite to that month, and it took until mid August or so for summer proper to return (IMBY). 

As with all sets of data, when viewed very broadly/collectively, nuance and specific variance is lost / not accounted for. 

There's definitely been worse summers as a whole but the quite notable thing about summer 2023 was the condensed nature of the different periods of weather. We had the fantastic June, and then - outside of 1/2 days right near the start of July - effectively next to nothing summery at all for the next 5/6 weeks.

If the very summery weather that was all condensed into June, and then the much cooler, wetter, windier and duller weather that was all condensed across the next 5-6 weeks, had been alot more interspersed with eachother, most folk would have a very different feeling about the high summer period, and of the season as a whole, and the stats would then be more reflective of experiential reality.

If you go out for dinner 10 times, and the first 5 meals are all good to fantastic, and then the latter 5 meals are all bad to woeful, the overall 10 meal experience is going to be very different to if you'd had a good meal, then a bad, then a couple good ones again, and then a bad, and so on and so forth, until you reach number 10. The bad is alot easier to stomach when its mixed in more frequently with the good.

We simply do not have many summer months like June 2023 or July 2023 - both very notable for different reasons. Our summer months are much more usually a sort of 'mismash' of June 2023 and July 2023...decent sunny and warm spells, rainy cooler spells, maybe a short plume affair or two, lasting 2/3 days a piece...