The changing daylight hours thread

[Maz]

I’m a SAD sufferer, so the clocks changing hangs over me, well, like a dark cloud!

There is still enough light to stave off the physical symptom’s.  So in my mind I pair each day now with the corresponding day before the spring equinox.  16th Feb is the equivalent in sun height/strength to today, so in my mind I’m limiting the dark period to 3 1/2 months, and shortening….

Clock change gives a couple of weeks or so of notably lighter mornings.  Im an early bird, and always try to get outside first thing, so that’s positive and limits the darkness.

Thanks to the clock change the latest sunrise is only 20mins or so later than now, so won’t get much worse really.

15th December and we get to the earliest sunset.  That’s only about 7 weeks time, then momentum shifts and everything is moving the right way.

Snowfall, or even thick frost, gives a magical boost in light, even if it’s cloudy, even at night if the moons out!  So the hunt for snow eats up the dark period to.

Then, sometime in February, I will stand outside, feel a bit of heat in the sun, and know it’s going to be Spring soon and I will rejuvenate just like nature…..

Edited October 26, 2023 by Maz

[*Stormforce~beka*]

2 hours ago, Maz said:

I’m a SAD sufferer, so the clocks changing hangs over me, well, like a dark cloud!

There is still enough light to stave off the physical symptom’s.  So in my mind I pair each day now with the corresponding day before the spring equinox.  16th Feb is the equivalent in sun height/strength to today, so in my mind I’m limiting the dark period to 3 1/2 months, and shortening….

Clock change gives a couple of weeks or so of notably lighter mornings.  Im an early bird, and always try to get outside first thing, so that’s positive and limits the darkness.

Thanks to the clock change the latest sunrise is only 20mins or so later than now, so won’t get much worse really.

15th December and we get to the earliest sunset.  That’s only about 7 weeks time, then momentum shifts and everything is moving the right way.

Snowfall, or even thick frost, gives a magical boost in light, even if it’s cloudy, even at night if the moons out!  So the hunt for snow eats up the dark period to.

Then, sometime in February, I will stand outside, feel a bit of heat in the sun, and know it’s going to be Spring soon and I will rejuvenate just like nature…..

I love this x

[MattStoke]

Looking forward to the clocks going back. Really noticed the darkness the past few mornings, with gloomy weather not helping.

[MattH]

Bring on the change to GMT, the correct time (IMO!)...oh and the usual hour earlier for all model data, ALL meteorologists look forward to that I can tell you, it seems like it has been BST this year for a very long time. The arrival of 12Z model data at 4-5 pm in the afternoon and by early morning is a true sign it's time for the winter season...

M.

[TSNWK]

16 hours ago, Maz said:

I’m a SAD sufferer, so the clocks changing hangs over me, well, like a dark cloud!

There is still enough light to stave off the physical symptom’s.  So in my mind I pair each day now with the corresponding day before the spring equinox.  16th Feb is the equivalent in sun height/strength to today, so in my mind I’m limiting the dark period to 3 1/2 months, and shortening….

Clock change gives a couple of weeks or so of notably lighter mornings.  Im an early bird, and always try to get outside first thing, so that’s positive and limits the darkness.

Thanks to the clock change the latest sunrise is only 20mins or so later than now, so won’t get much worse really.

15th December and we get to the earliest sunset.  That’s only about 7 weeks time, then momentum shifts and everything is moving the right way.

Snowfall, or even thick frost, gives a magical boost in light, even if it’s cloudy, even at night if the moons out!  So the hunt for snow eats up the dark period to.

Then, sometime in February, I will stand outside, feel a bit of heat in the sun, and know it’s going to be Spring soon and I will rejuvenate just like nature…..

Great Post..  I'm also glad that I'm  not alone in matching each day with its equivalent the other side.   Today for example is equal daylight to 15th February... although I still don't understand completely why sunsets  are later post solstice than their equivalent pre solstice total daylight duration is the same . For example 29th October sunset in London is 16:39 with 9 hours 51 of sun above horizon the equivalent date post solstice is 13th February sunset is  17:10 with same sun above horizon duration as October 29th?

Edited October 27, 2023 by TSNWK

[Maz]

32 minutes ago, TSNWK said:

Great Post..  I'm also glad that I'm  not alone in matching each day with its equivalent the other side.   Today for example is equal daylight to 15th February... although I still don't understand completely why sunsets  are later post solstice than their equivalent pre solstice total daylight duration is the same . For example 29th October sunset in London is 16:39 with 9 hours 51 of sun above horizon the equivalent date post solstice is 13th February sunset is  17:10 with same sun above horizon duration as October 29th?

Yes, it is an oddity.  Can’t help with an explanation.

I’m sat outside comfortably having lunch now and enjoying a bit of heat from the sun.  Whilst the air temperature may be colder on the “twin” day of 15th Feb, there will be the same brightness…in my mind each day forward before SAD hits is reducing the dark period.

[cheeky_monkey]

18 hours ago, Maz said:

 

Snowfall, or even thick frost, gives a magical boost in light, even if it’s cloudy, even at night if the moons out!  So the hunt for snow eats up the dark period to.

..

does it?...living where i do and its already covered in snow..i find its still pitch black at night even with a ton of snow on the ground..you only get that light reflection and that orange glow when it is actually snowing

[Weather Enthusiast91]

3 hours ago, MattStoke said:

Looking forward to the clocks going back. Really noticed the darkness the past few mornings, with gloomy weather not helping.

Same. I am not at all bothered by dark evenings, but I am not a huge fan of dark mornings. 

If we were to scrap BST or GMT then I'd much rather it be BST. There will still be plenty of daylight during the summer evenings, but it won't be dark at 9am either which is what would happen if GMT was to be scrapped.

Edited October 27, 2023 by Weather Enthusiast91

[Maz]

1 hour ago, cheeky_monkey said:

does it?...living where i do and its already covered in snow..i find its still pitch black at night even with a ton of snow on the ground..you only get that light reflection and that orange glow when it is actually snowing

Maybe it’s the light pollution reflecting off the snow.  I’m on the edge of Manchester here.  Don’t get much opportunity to find out these past winters though!

[Dark Horse]

I know theres been an argument on here about tinkering with GMT & BST and how dark it would be in the morning and accidents but I'm sure they cope with it just fine in places like Helsinki with a population of more than half a million people and where it doesn't get light until 9:30 in the morning in December. Is there a huge increase in accidents there during that time of year? I doubt it and not heard there is. Maybe they are more sensible over there who knows. I'd personally rather have an extra hour daylight in the afternoon rather than the morning. I find it more depressing when you have to shut the curtains not far off 4pm in December. The evenings seem super long then. But that's just a personal preference each to their own.

[Summer of 95]

3 hours ago, TSNWK said:

Great Post..  I'm also glad that I'm  not alone in matching each day with its equivalent the other side.   Today for example is equal daylight to 15th February... although I still don't understand completely why sunsets  are later post solstice than their equivalent pre solstice total daylight duration is the same . For example 29th October sunset in London is 16:39 with 9 hours 51 of sun above horizon the equivalent date post solstice is 13th February sunset is  17:10 with same sun above horizon duration as October 29th?

Called the "equation of time". Solar noon (when the sun is on the meridian/highest) doesn't exactly coincide with clock noon. Same reason for the earliest sunset being a bit before the solstice and the latest sunrise a bit after. 

Equation of time - Wikipedia

EN.WIKIPEDIA.ORG

Note how solar noon is earliest compared to the clock around late Oct and early Nov; this has the effect of making the sunset even earlier around the time the clocks change. And it's latest around mid Feb, another argument for moving them forward at least a month earlier (if we can't have BST all year which would be my preference).

[Scuba steve]

27 minutes ago, Summer of 95 said:

Called the "equation of time". Solar noon (when the sun is on the meridian/highest) doesn't exactly coincide with clock noon. Same reason for the earliest sunset being a bit before the solstice and the latest sunrise a bit after. 

Equation of time - Wikipedia

EN.WIKIPEDIA.ORG

Note how solar noon is earliest compared to the clock around late Oct and early Nov; this has the effect of making the sunset even earlier around the time the clocks change. And it's latest around mid Feb, another argument for moving them forward at least a month earlier (if we can't have BST all year which would be my preference).

Clocks forward in February would make sense as I can’t stand dark damp mild days which is basically our winter 

[damianslaw]

Just a reminder, clocks back early hours. Sunset before 5pm. Happy Dark Sunday!

[simshady]

Entering the best time of the year

[damianslaw]

Dark Sunday is here, but thankfully here at least it is a bright one, so we won't see a sudden descent into dark just after half 4. It will still be a shock to see rapid loss of light around 5pm.

[Airedalejoe]

3 minutes ago, damianslaw said:

Dark Sunday is here, but thankfully here at least it is a bright one, so we won't see a sudden descent into dark just after half 4. It will still be a shock to see rapid loss of light around 5pm.

Been the opposite here across the pennines, yet another vile day. Monsoonal rain and standing water. Very grey day. Quite worrying given it's still October as we've had a very wet year but as ever things will even out, hopefully!

[markyo]

6 hours ago, simshady said:

Entering the best time of the year

Totally agree, already here the light levels are fantastic, mellow, soft and low. That mixed with the change in nature is wonderful, by so far i find this the best season of the year, so much to enjoy.

[Polar Maritime]

I enjoy all the seasons, but Autumn proper when the clocks go back I find enjoyable as we head into Winter. 

[Mary C]

Autumn is my favourite time of year. The quality of the light is quite beautiful and everything seems to be settling down in preparation for Winter. The darker skies are also great for astronomy. I was taking a look at Jupiter and the Galilean moons in my 7x50 binoculars several nights ago.  I was having a very successful observing session so I thought I’d have a go at Uranus not expecting to be successful. I used a star hopping technique to identify it and then used averted vision through my binoculars to see the very dim disc. I’ve never seen Uranus through my own efforts before, of course I’ve seen it through telescopes, so I was so pleased when I succeeded in observing it. I could wax lyrical about this time of year, especially the Pink Footed Geese that fly over on their way between Martin Mere and the Sefton Coast and all the other bird life, but I’ll stop now…Happy GMT/UTC folks.

Edited October 29, 2023 by Mary C
Punctuation errors

[wende123]

On 27/10/2023 at 16:43, Dark Horse said:

I know theres been an argument on here about tinkering with GMT & BST and how dark it would be in the morning and accidents but I'm sure they cope with it just fine in places like Helsinki with a population of more than half a million people and where it doesn't get light until 9:30 in the morning in December. Is there a huge increase in accidents there during that time of year? I doubt it and not heard there is. Maybe they are more sensible over there who knows. I'd personally rather have an extra hour daylight in the afternoon rather than the morning. I find it more depressing when you have to shut the curtains not far off 4pm in December. The evenings seem super long then. But that's just a personal preference each to their own.

Totally agree. With extended daylight in the evenings, we would save money on lighting and heating too.

[ANYWEATHER]

1 hour ago, Airedalejoe said:

Been the opposite here across the pennines, yet another vile day. Monsoonal rain and standing water. Very grey day. Quite worrying given it's still October as we've had a very wet year but as ever things will even out, hopefully!

And the reservoirs will still be empty next summer

[Mary C]

1 minute ago, wende123 said:

Totally agree. With extended daylight in the evenings, we would save money on lighting and heating too.

There was an experiment in keeping BST all year round in the UK between 1968 and 197. I was a very small child at the time but I remember that there was a higher incidence of RTCs involving children during the morning school run. Also, people, especially farmers, in the North of England and Scotland complained about having to work and use farm machinery in cold, dark conditions; morning being their busiest part of the day. Where I grew up sunrise was typically 09:10am at the beginning of December and 09:30am at the beginning of January. The British archipelago is so long that a ‘One size fits all’ solution was never going to be satisfactory for everyone.

[wende123]

7 minutes ago, Mary C said:

There was an experiment in keeping BST all year round in the UK between 1968 and 197. I was a very small child at the time but I remember that there was a higher incidence of RTCs involving children during the morning school run. Also, people, especially farmers, in the North of England and Scotland complained about having to work and use farm machinery in cold, dark conditions; morning being their busiest part of the day. Where I grew up sunrise was typically 09:10am at the beginning of December and 09:30am at the beginning of January. The British archipelago is so long that a ‘One size fits all’ solution was never going to be satisfactory for everyone.

I remember the experiment well - as a child myself at that time we were given dayglo armbands to wear to school in the morning. Once the experiment ended and we reverted to GMT, we then were encouraged to wear these armbands on the way home from school. In those days school didn't finish until 4pm.

By mid December we only have 7 hours of daylight, so whatever we do is going to cause issues for some groups of people in different parts of the country. I do believe though that we should be trying to find ways of reducing our use of heating and lighting and reverting to GMT in October doesn't address this. 

[Mary C]

16 minutes ago, wende123 said:

I remember the experiment well - as a child myself at that time we were given dayglo armbands to wear to school in the morning. Once the experiment ended and we reverted to GMT, we then were encouraged to wear these armbands on the way home from school. In those days school didn't finish until 4pm.

By mid December we only have 7 hours of daylight, so whatever we do is going to cause issues for some groups of people in different parts of the country. I do believe though that we should be trying to find ways of reducing our use of heating and lighting and reverting to GMT in October doesn't address this. 

Oh, wow, that took me back, I’d forgotten about the hi-vis arm bands. I agree, there has to be a discussion about how best to deal with reducing our consumption of energy for both economic and environmental reasons. It’s difficult to know what a solution would look like. There is an argument that retaining BST/UTC+01:00 would help reduce heating and lighting costs in the evening when most people are at home. However, retaining BST would increase costs to farmers and would encourage more people into cars in the morning. There’s no easy answer.

[cheeky_monkey]

On 29/10/2023 at 03:12, simshady said:

Entering the best time of the year