Spring moans, ramps, chat and banter

[Nick L]

41 minutes ago, CreweCold said:

Some people say it's a matter of selective memory but something has definitely changed since I was a kid. You could rely on spring showers, Summer heat, autumn gales and even some winter snow. Everything seems to have become so homogenously 'meh' now. More like a perpetual early autumn.

In a world that is seeing more extremes, trust the UK to go the exact opposite way!

[March]

How can everything be "meh" when all kinds of records are being set each year/month even day. A month doesn't seem to go by without at least one record being set. 

[Cheshire Freeze]

41 minutes ago, March said:

How can everything be "meh" when all kinds of records are being set each year/month even day. A month doesn't seem to go by without at least one record being set. 

So you don't think thunderstorms are becoming rarer? When was the last time we had traditional April showers? I certainly can't remember. Yes, warmth records are being broken but mostly during months where it isn't extreme on an absolute level. I.e 15C is warm for January but it's hardly a rare temp to achieve any other time! 15C in January and 15C come June over the last few years.

To me it just feels like the same weather day after day. Of course I'm basing it entirely on an imby perspective but it's what I see. 

Edited February 21, 2016 by CreweCold

[feb1991blizzard]

warmest and second coldest Dec inside 6 years.

[Weather-history]

5 hours ago, CreweCold said:

Some people say it's a matter of selective memory but something has definitely changed since I was a kid. You could rely on spring showers, Summer heat, autumn gales and even some winter snow. Everything seems to have become so homogenously 'meh' now. More like a perpetual early autumn.

With all due respect, if you are expecting the British climate to deliver or rely on the traditional seasons cropping up then you are dreaming. We can never guarantee or rely on anything, weatherwise in this country.

When I was at high school, there was not one decent summer from 1985-88.  The summers before and after I left were decent. 

 

 

[Weather-history]

3 hours ago, feb1991blizzard said:

warmest and second coldest Dec inside 6 years.

3 of the last 4 Aprils have been extreme: warmest, wettest, sunniest.

 

[I remember Atlantic 252]

Valentines Day look about this, last sunday when it all went south, lead up was showing lots of snow, the reality bits of rain for the south

Edited February 21, 2016 by I remember Atlantic 252

[markyo]

Really liking the look of next week,lovely taste of winter hopefully,long may in continue!!

[Radiating Dendrite]

Just in response to Crewe - we had the warmest July day on record last year and a very hot July in 2013.

I think people remember things when they were a kid as being all rosie.....is it not the fact you were a kid, could play out and had few responsibilities.

[mushymanrob]

7 hours ago, CreweCold said:

Some people say it's a matter of selective memory but something has definitely changed since I was a kid. You could rely on spring showers, Summer heat, autumn gales and even some winter snow. Everything seems to have become so homogenously 'meh' now. More like a perpetual early autumn.

you werent around in the 70's then. it really IS selective memory, i can not recall any run of years ever (since the 60's) where the seasons behave as 'they are expected to'... hot summers, snowy winters, stormy autumns and showery springs have never been any sort of guarantee. theyve come and gone.

i mentioned the 70's - the early 70's had almost snowless winters, had 2 hot summers, had springs that varied between very cold and dry (75) and mild / warm (76). then we had the late 70's early 80's when we had plenty of snowy winters and no hot summers. (between 76 - 83)

i think its a complete myth that the weather 'used to' behave within the confines we attribute to it regarding seasons.

[cornish snow]

One thing which has changed for sure since i was a kid is the decline in periods of East winds(not just in winter,but at all time)

Used to get East blows regulary,believe me,i know,nightmare for fishermen on this coast.

 

[markyo]

34 minutes ago, mushymanrob said:

you werent around in the 70's then. it really IS selective memory, i can not recall any run of years ever (since the 60's) where the seasons behave as 'they are expected to'... hot summers, snowy winters, stormy autumns and showery springs have never been any sort of guarantee. theyve come and gone.

i mentioned the 70's - the early 70's had almost snowless winters, had 2 hot summers, had springs that varied between very cold and dry (75) and mild / warm (76). then we had the late 70's early 80's when we had plenty of snowy winters and no hot summers. (between 76 - 83)

i think its a complete myth that the weather 'used to' behave within the confines we attribute to it regarding seasons.

Fully agree with you,the phrase 'used to' in terms of our weather is a very misguided phrase. Our weather is a maritime climate so by its nature does not run to any pattern. The chances though of a hot summer or cold winter have been eroded by a change in the way our weather is driven. Any settled spells of weather without a doubt will become few and far between in the next decade. Our seasons have changed and will continue to change for the foreseeable future. Our climate has changed and will continue to change,we may not like it but it's a fact i'm sure will be proven correct over the coming years.

[mushymanrob]

actually, im not sure theres even been a 'typical' year.  maybe there has Weather-history ?... but they must be few and far between

*typical as in snowy, wintry jan/feb, showery april, largely warm/hot summer with thunderstorms and a stormy autumn.

Edited February 21, 2016 by mushymanrob

[Walsall Wood Snow]

23 minutes ago, markyo said:

 The chances though of a hot summer or cold winter have been eroded by a change in the way our weather is driven. Any settled spells of weather without a doubt will become few and far between in the next decade. 

That's a bit of a bold prediction and quite frankly one you are foolish to feel confident of. Some people seem to have rather short memories band indeed we have had hot Summers, cold Winters and settled spells in the last decade and I personally think we should by the law of averages manage all of the above in the next decade at least once. Our last hot Summer was less than 2 years ago and our last cold Winter was 3 years ago (note they weren't all the way through but very, very rarely seasons are solidly extreme). That's not really long ago at all and some are acting like the weather the last 2 or 3 years has become all we can expect from now and forever and frankly it's getting tiresome.

[Walsall Wood Snow]

24 minutes ago, mushymanrob said:

actually, im not sure theres even been a 'typical' year.  maybe there has Weather-history ?... but they must be few and far between

*typical as in snowy, wintry jan/feb, showery april, largely warm/hot summer with thunderstorms and a stormy autumn.

Actually I think a 'meteorological year' should be measured from the start of Spring to the end of Winter because it would surely make more sense to measure one Winter in a meteorological year rather than 2 separate ones like we do now.

[mushymanrob]

3 minutes ago, Walsall Wood Snow said:

That's a bit of a bold prediction and quite frankly one you are foolish to feel confident of. Some people seem to have rather short memories band indeed we have had hot Summers, cold Winters and settled spells in the last decade and I personally think we should by the law of averages manage all of the above in the next decade at least once. Our last hot Summer was less than 2 years ago and our last cold Winter was 3 years ago (note they weren't all the way through but very, very rarely seasons are solidly extreme). That's not really long ago at all and some are acting like the weather the last 2 or 3 years has become all we can expect from now and forever and frankly it's getting tiresome.

theres a difference between a hot spell in summer and a hot summer, and since 2009 the south east has had much more decent summers weather then the northwest. imho they dont compare to the true hot summers of 75, 76, 83, 95 etc..  summer 2014 was pretty normal here, nothing special.

[mushymanrob]

1 minute ago, Walsall Wood Snow said:

Actually I think a 'meteorological year' should be measured from the start of Spring to the end of Winter because it would surely make more sense to measure one Winter in a meteorological year rather than 2 separate ones like we do now.

maybe, but it wouldnt alter the facts.

[markyo]

5 minutes ago, Walsall Wood Snow said:

That's a bit of a bold prediction and quite frankly one you are foolish to feel confident of. Some people seem to have rather short memories band indeed we have had hot Summers, cold Winters and settled spells in the last decade and I personally think we should by the law of averages manage all of the above in the next decade at least once. Our last hot Summer was less than 2 years ago and our last cold Winter was 3 years ago (note they weren't all the way through but very, very rarely seasons are solidly extreme). That's not really long ago at all and some are acting like the weather the last 2 or 3 years has become all we can expect from now and forever and frankly it's getting tiresome.

Disagree totally,no idea why you can't see the change which has occurred and will continue. I've been on the road with my job for over 30 years now and can assure you in the last 20 years the weather i have encounted has changed markedly and to say its getting tiresome imo is just nonsense,our weather has changed and will continue to evolve into a far different climate than any of us would have thought. You obviously missed the point of my last post by a country mile.

[Weather Observer]

I am not sure that I would rely on memory or statistics in the debate about seasonality. Both can send us round in circles. What I do think is that seasonality is in our psyche and goes back to the time when we had a more intimate connection with the land. We need  order and predictability to cope, even if the reality is something else.

So for me this all comes down to things simply not feeling right at the moment. This winter has really unsettled me and I won't be the only one. 

 

[Walsall Wood Snow]

1 minute ago, mushymanrob said:

theres a difference between a hot spell in summer and a hot summer, and since 2009 the south east has had much more decent summers weather then the northwest. imho they dont compare to the true hot summers of 75, 76, 83, 95 etc..  summer 2014 was pretty normal here, nothing special.

Granted but my point was really that just because we didn't have a hot Summer last year (though we had a hot spell/snap) or in the last few of years doesn't mean we can't or shouldn't expect one or more anytime in the next decade. Anyway looking at your examples (besides the 2 on the trot of 75 and 76) there were quite big gaps between those ( though I've heard 84 was also a decent Summer and between then and 95 there was 89, 90 and 91) but it's pretty obvious even if you get a few warm/hot Summers in close proximity, periods with few and far between are common and nobody should be predicting the next decade based on the previous half decade.

[Weather-history]

Every generation says the seasons have changed, it's not like what it used to be etc, this or that. I know because I read weather historical accounts. 

"We have one of the old fashioned winters, snow and frost, not fulfilling the words of those who were quite sure the seasons were altered"

The date that was written?  1853.

[Weather-history]

1 hour ago, mushymanrob said:

actually, im not sure theres even been a 'typical' year.  maybe there has Weather-history ?... but they must be few and far between

*typical as in snowy, wintry jan/feb, showery april, largely warm/hot summer with thunderstorms and a stormy autumn.

When you say "typical"  isn't it really what you associate with those seasons? Winter with snow and frost, April showers, summer with heat?

That is not typical in this country. You rarely get the seasons within a year  in this country falling into what you associate with them.

 

Edited February 21, 2016 by Weather-history
.

[feb1991blizzard]

5 hours ago, Weather-history said:

3 of the last 4 Aprils have been extreme: warmest, wettest, sunniest.

 

True but since 2009 I have seen probably my most (or one of them) brutal mid Dec - mid Jan periods, ive seen my biggest November snow event ever, my heaviest fall in the Second half of any March and my heaviest April fall.

 

EDIT : the last 3 winters though BY AND LARGE have been absolute garbage wrt cold, we've had some spells of below average temps in summer but not cold enough for me.

Edited February 21, 2016 by feb1991blizzard

[Snowyowl9]

11 hours ago, Nath said:

No snow in winter, no hot weather or storms in summer.  Miserable springs and autumns. 

It wasnt like this when I was younger 

Last 2 autumns have been excellent record dry.

[mushymanrob]

1 hour ago, Walsall Wood Snow said:

Granted but my point was really that just because we didn't have a hot Summer last year (though we had a hot spell/snap) or in the last few of years doesn't mean we can't or shouldn't expect one or more anytime in the next decade. Anyway looking at your examples (besides the 2 on the trot of 75 and 76) there were quite big gaps between those ( though I've heard 84 was also a decent Summer and between then and 95 there was 89, 90 and 91) but it's pretty obvious even if you get a few warm/hot Summers in close proximity, periods with few and far between are common and nobody should be predicting the next decade based on the previous half decade.

of course its not black and white, summers vary in 'decency'