The Electric Car - saving the climate or just polluting in other ways?

[Scuba steve]

45 minutes ago, Gowon said:

They can make public transport available for those people?

It would never work in rural areas which aren’t Croydon with excellent public transport 

[Bristawl Si]

27 minutes ago, Scuba steve said:

It would never work in rural areas which aren’t Croydon with excellent public transport 

It wouldnt work anywhere. Imagine peeps getting on a bus, en masse, with bags of shopping from a 'big shop' at the local supermarket. Every bus would need a trailer attached to it.

The car is the biggest game changer in people's lives in the last 100 years, end of.

Freedom to travel, when u want, where u want.

Disclaimer: i dont drive, never had a licence and i've used public transport all my life. The only time i'm in a car is with my wife, who absolutely loves to drive.

Edited March 23, 2023 by Bristle Si

[markyo]

As with everything, one size does not fit all, electric cars have their place, but as technology stands the target of 2030 is ridiculous. They have and the infrastructure has still far to many drawbacks to be viable. Charging batteries externally is NOT the future, that is obvious.

[Polar Maritime]

Where live here, there are two busses a day in the local Hamlet a mile or so down the lane. That's just for the few kids that live there to go to school.. We definitely needs cars here! 

I always chuckle when there are 2/3kids getting off the bus when I pass, then drives back empty.. But at least they still provide a service.

Edited March 23, 2023 by Polar Maritime

[Dark Horse]

30 minutes ago, Bristle Si said:

It wouldnt work anywhere. Imagine peeps getting on a bus, en masse, with bags of shopping from a 'big shop' at the local supermarket. Every bus would need a trailer attached to it.

The car is the biggest game changer in people's lives in the last 100 years, end of.

Freedom to travel, when u want, where u want.

Disclaimer: i dont drive, never had a licence and i've used public transport all my life. The only time i'm in a car is with my wife, who absolutely loves to drive.

I don't own a car but I see your point with convenience it is by far the biggest plus to having a car. I can drive as an ex taught me but I've never got a licence. Petrol, road tax, MOT and given how busy roads are these days in Manchester and people under the influence you could end up in an accident with more money to pay out if your lucky to survive or you're car could end up nicked never to be found again are all the things that put me off. Personally all I pay is £18.50 a week bus fare and that is unlimited travel all around Greater Manchester between 5am and midnight and also covers a small part of the High Peak such as Glossop. It's gets me to where I need to be pretty fast to be honest, the buses here are regular and I'm not usually waiting long for the bus and I can see when it's due live on my phone. Of course if I lived in a rural area I'd be forced into getting a car. I couldn't be doing with waiting for the once an hour bus.

Edited March 23, 2023 by Dark Horse

[Scuba steve]

29 minutes ago, Polar Maritime said:

Where live here, there are two busses a day in the local Hamlet a mile or so down the lane. That's just for the few kids that live there to go to school.. We definitely needs cars here! 

I always chuckle when there are 2/3kids getting off the bus when I pass, then drives back empty.. But at least they still provide a service.

Like you say public transport in rural areas is minimal and non existent in others

[ANYWEATHER]

2 hours ago, acorb said:

Well I drive one (which from reading the thread so far nobody else does!), so let me provide some facts from 2 years & 35000 miles. 

-Affordability. Yes they are expensive to buy, but most people use finance or lease. Mine is on a business lease and it was more affordable than hybrid or petrol. Given I charge mine at home I have saved a fortune on fuel in those 2 years. 

-Practicality. I live in the middle of rural Wales. I use my car every day, but virtually all my journeys are under 150 miles, so I don't really need to use the public charging network. However, in the last 2 years nearly every town near me has acquired a charge point. Many are now used frequently. 

-Useabilty. Once you have driven one, you will be amazed with the performance. Instant power. Far from new untried technology, my car has been fault free, reliable and a pleasure to drive. Several of my colleagues have now ordered EVs. 

-Green? They are emission free, but only as green as the electric that goes in. New battery technology uses far less rare metals than ev batteries 10 years ago and are now recyclable - but they aren't perfect. But lithium batteries are in all sorts of portable electronics including mobile phones, do we boycott them? 

-Power supply - I hear this a lot. EVs can already be programmed to charge off peak, that's when I charge mine. New technology means EVs can be used as portable storage, storing electricity at times of plenty and are capable of providing power, to remove the grid's peaks and troughs. Let's get solar onto roofs and pair them with EVs where possible, your EV could power your house for free potentially and actually reduce grid dependance. 

-Are EVs the future? For me yes, it works and I'm impressed with the technology. It is still developing, new EVs go further and charge quicker than just 2 years ago. But I agree with the poster above, we still need to  better develop public transport - nothing is greener than an electrically powered train for long distances or cycling / walking for short distances. 

There's electric hook ups at the lovely Horseshoe Guest House Church Street. ,☺

[Scuba steve]

Seems to be a few articles about EVs being scrapped after minor collisions,insurance companies not willing  to take the risk on the batteries especially Tesla’s as the battery forms part of the monocoque construction 

Edited March 23, 2023 by Scuba steve

[The PIT]

3 hours ago, acorb said:

Well I drive one (which from reading the thread so far nobody else does!), so let me provide some facts from 2 years & 35000 miles. 

-Affordability. Yes they are expensive to buy, but most people use finance or lease. Mine is on a business lease and it was more affordable than hybrid or petrol. Given I charge mine at home I have saved a fortune on fuel in those 2 years. 

-Practicality. I live in the middle of rural Wales. I use my car every day, but virtually all my journeys are under 150 miles, so I don't really need to use the public charging network. However, in the last 2 years nearly every town near me has acquired a charge point. Many are now used frequently. 

-Useabilty. Once you have driven one, you will be amazed with the performance. Instant power. Far from new untried technology, my car has been fault free, reliable and a pleasure to drive. Several of my colleagues have now ordered EVs. 

-Green? They are emission free, but only as green as the electric that goes in. New battery technology uses far less rare metals than ev batteries 10 years ago and are now recyclable - but they aren't perfect. But lithium batteries are in all sorts of portable electronics including mobile phones, do we boycott them? 

-Power supply - I hear this a lot. EVs can already be programmed to charge off peak, that's when I charge mine. New technology means EVs can be used as portable storage, storing electricity at times of plenty and are capable of providing power, to remove the grid's peaks and troughs. Let's get solar onto roofs and pair them with EVs where possible, your EV could power your house for free potentially and actually reduce grid dependance. 

-Are EVs the future? For me yes, it works and I'm impressed with the technology. It is still developing, new EVs go further and charge quicker than just 2 years ago. But I agree with the poster above, we still need to  better develop public transport - nothing is greener than an electrically powered train for long distances or cycling / walking for short distances. 

Out of interest how much has you electricity bill gone up by?

What are they like in Snow. With all the power there from the off I would have thought they would be fairly poor.

I would be very interested too see how electric cars handle being stranded in snow for several days can the batteries power the heating?

[cheeky_monkey]

1 hour ago, Bristle Si said:

It wouldnt work anywhere. Imagine peeps getting on a bus, en masse, with bags of shopping from a 'big shop' at the local supermarket. Every bus would need a trailer attached to it.

The car is the biggest game changer in people's lives in the last 100 years, end of.

Freedom to travel, when u want, where u want.

Disclaimer: i dont drive, never had a licence and i've used public transport all my life. The only time i'm in a car is with my wife, who absolutely loves to drive.

Or tradesman etc with all their tools and equipment getting to job sites or plumbers etc coming to fix your leaking sink how do they get there when the nearest bus stop to your house is 2 miles away 

[Gowon]

58 minutes ago, Bristle Si said:

It wouldnt work anywhere. Imagine peeps getting on a bus, en masse, with bags of shopping from a 'big shop' at the local supermarket. Every bus would need a trailer attached to it.

The car is the biggest game changer in people's lives in the last 100 years, end of.

Freedom to travel, when u want, where u want.

Disclaimer: i dont drive, never had a licence and i've used public transport all my life. The only time i'm in a car is with my wife, who absolutely loves to drive.

End of? We need to come up with different solutions - not shut them down?

Cars have been a big game changer for our convenience, and for our planet it's been a game changer in terms of polluting it.

We've been conditioned to think we can't function without cars and we need to start to think differently.

 

 

[Bristawl Si]

2 minutes ago, Gowon said:

End of? We need to come up with different solutions - not shut them down?

Cars have been a big game changer for our convenience, and for our planet it's been a game changer in terms of polluting it.

We've been conditioned to think we can't function without cars and we need to start to think differently.

 

 

Guess, we could all shop local; not go anywhere, stop travelling - hmm...so become super insular. Nah .....life would be so boring.

You go on about cars and pollution. Here's a fact:

A seagoing container vessel is just as polluting as up to 50 million cars. The emissions from 15 of these mega-ships match those from all the cars in the world.

So, let's stop trade. Right, ok. Problem solved.

[Scuba steve]

3 minutes ago, Gowon said:

End of? We need to come up with different solutions - not shut them down?

Cars have been a big game changer for our convenience, and for our planet it's been a game changer in terms of polluting it.

We've been conditioned to think we can't function without cars and we need to start to think differently.

 

 

Differently being the isolated dystopian future without private vehicles will bring,and being aged 56 I hope I don’t live to see it ,lol

[ANYWEATHER]

17 minutes ago, Gowon said:

End of? We need to come up with different solutions - not shut them down?

Cars have been a big game changer for our convenience, and for our planet it's been a game changer in terms of polluting it.

We've been conditioned to think we can't function without cars and we need to start to think differently.

 

 

You have to remember the wheel changed the shape of humankind ,and along came industrialisation and the combustion engine which changed the shape of humankind again, we have to be thankful for the invention of such momentus inventions, a lot of us wouldn't have been born otherwise. ....

[acorb]

16 minutes ago, The PIT said:

Out of interest how much has you electricity bill gone up by?

What are they like in Snow. With all the power there from the off I would have thought they would be fairly poor.

I would be very interested too see how electric cars handle being stranded in snow for several days can the batteries power the heating?

Probably about £40 a month compared to £150 a month previously in fuel. 

Electric cars have adjustable torque, usually via an eco mode or some now have a snow mode button - this reduces the amount of power put down on the road. 

Overall handling is excellent, the low batteries mean it is grounded in the road and holds corners remarkably well for a heavy car.

If there was that much snow on the road I would not be driving in it anyway, in petrol or electric! However, I would add that the country with the highest number of electric cars per person is Sweden - not known for its mild winters! 

A 50kw battery holds enough power to run an average home for a week, a few hours powering a heater in a car won't bother it..

I'm not pretending electric cars will suit everyone (yet!), or they are going to save the planet on their own (they're not) - but the amount of scaremongering that is being published by some media at the moment is especially laughable to someone who actually owns one! 

 

[Scuba steve]

1 minute ago, acorb said:

Probably about £40 a month compared to £150 a month previously in fuel. 

Electric cars have adjustable torque, usually via an eco mode or some now have a snow mode button - this reduces the amount of power put down on the road. 

Overall handling is excellent, the low batteries mean it is grounded in the road and holds corners remarkably well for a heavy car.

If there was that much snow on the road I would not be driving in it anyway, in petrol or electric! However, I would add that the country with the highest number of electric cars per person is Sweden - not known for its mild winters! 

A 50kw battery holds enough power to run an average home for a week, a few hours powering a heater in a car won't bother it..

I'm not pretending electric cars will suit everyone (yet!), or they are going to save the planet on their own (they're not) - but the amount of scaremongering that is being published by some media at the moment is especially laughable to someone who actually owns one! 

 

Not being an ev owner  do you carry a generator in the boot just in case ? 

[Gowon]

6 minutes ago, cheeky_monkey said:

Or tradesman etc with all their tools and equipment getting to job sites or plumbers etc coming to fix your leaking sink how do they get there when the nearest bus stop to your house is 2 miles away 

People that need vehicles to do their jobs will have them. We need to get away from the idea that's it's ok for everyone in a family to own a car and pack up the side of the roads with them. 

 

10 minutes ago, Bristle Si said:

Guess, we could all shop local; not go anywhere, stop travelling - hmm...so become super insular. Nah .....life would be so boring.

You go on about cars and pollution. Here's a fact:

A seagoing container vessel is just as polluting as up to 50 million cars. The emissions from 15 of these mega-ships match those from all the cars in the world.

So, let's stop trade. Right, ok. Problem solved.

Take away the cars and keep the trade.

[Bristawl Si]

3 minutes ago, Gowon said:

People that need vehicles to do their jobs will have them. We need to get away from the idea that's it's ok for everyone in a family to own a car and pack up the side of the roads with them. 

 

Take away the cars and keep the trade.

Yes, but 15 large cargo ships match all the cars in the world for pollution.

And the English Channel sees 500 ships pass through every day. Yep, every single day. 500.

The busiest shipping lane in the world.

Edited March 23, 2023 by Bristle Si

[acorb]

Just now, Scuba steve said:

Not being an ev owner  do you carry a generator in the boot just in case ? 

No, why would I?? 

It tells me how far I have got to go just as a petrol car would?  If you are running low you top up! 

In all seriousness, temperature and speed do affect range more than petrol and longer journeys take a bit of planning - but nothing insurmountable as public chargers have increased massively in the last couple of years. 

[Gowon]

1 minute ago, Bristle Si said:

Yes, but 15 large cargo ships match all the cars in the world for pollution.

And the English Channel sees 500 ships pass through every day. Yep, every single day. 500.

The busiest shipping lane in the world.

I didn't know that tbh, but by having cars we're adding to the pollution with the tyres. 

16 minutes ago, ANYWEATHER said:

You have to remember the wheel changed the shape of humankind ,and along came industrialisation and the combustion engine which changed the shape of humankind again, we have to be thankful for the invention of such momentus inventions, a lot of us wouldn't have been born otherwise. ....

How?

[ANYWEATHER]

20 minutes ago, acorb said:

Probably about £40 a month compared to £150 a month previously in fuel. 

Electric cars have adjustable torque, usually via an eco mode or some now have a snow mode button - this reduces the amount of power put down on the road. 

Overall handling is excellent, the low batteries mean it is grounded in the road and holds corners remarkably well for a heavy car.

If there was that much snow on the road I would not be driving in it anyway, in petrol or electric! However, I would add that the country with the highest number of electric cars per person is Sweden - not known for its mild winters! 

A 50kw battery holds enough power to run an average home for a week, a few hours powering a heater in a car won't bother it..

I'm not pretending electric cars will suit everyone (yet!), or they are going to save the planet on their own (they're not) - but the amount of scaremongering that is being published by some media at the moment is especially laughable to someone who actually owns one! 

 

Tbh, you're about the only one I know who sings EVs praises.  Fair play it suits you that's fine, but there are a lot of disgruntled people who own an EV. 

[markyo]

3 hours ago, acorb said:

Well I drive one (which from reading the thread so far nobody else does!), so let me provide some facts from 2 years & 35000 miles. 

-Affordability. Yes they are expensive to buy, but most people use finance or lease. Mine is on a business lease and it was more affordable than hybrid or petrol. Given I charge mine at home I have saved a fortune on fuel in those 2 years. 

-Practicality. I live in the middle of rural Wales. I use my car every day, but virtually all my journeys are under 150 miles, so I don't really need to use the public charging network. However, in the last 2 years nearly every town near me has acquired a charge point. Many are now used frequently. 

-Useabilty. Once you have driven one, you will be amazed with the performance. Instant power. Far from new untried technology, my car has been fault free, reliable and a pleasure to drive. Several of my colleagues have now ordered EVs. 

-Green? They are emission free, but only as green as the electric that goes in. New battery technology uses far less rare metals than ev batteries 10 years ago and are now recyclable - but they aren't perfect. But lithium batteries are in all sorts of portable electronics including mobile phones, do we boycott them? 

-Power supply - I hear this a lot. EVs can already be programmed to charge off peak, that's when I charge mine. New technology means EVs can be used as portable storage, storing electricity at times of plenty and are capable of providing power, to remove the grid's peaks and troughs. Let's get solar onto roofs and pair them with EVs where possible, your EV could power your house for free potentially and actually reduce grid dependance. 

-Are EVs the future? For me yes, it works and I'm impressed with the technology. It is still developing, new EVs go further and charge quicker than just 2 years ago. But I agree with the poster above, we still need to  better develop public transport - nothing is greener than an electrically powered train for long distances or cycling / walking for short distances. 

Your post has one major flaw in it, a very big one actually. A lot of it i agree with, to drive a EV is great, response, reliability, etc, EV's the future, yes but as a overall solution. The huge flaw is as it stands charging. You have off street charging at home? Yes you have. The majority in this country do not, fact.  That is not going to change. Charging a battery via a cable is NOT the future. Can you imagine the size on the cable required to feed a normal suburban  semi detached house street of say 200 homes? Each coming home at night to charge? No that will never never happen. EV's as they are have their place but the future is certainly not one as it is now with charge cables at home for the lucky ones who can. As you say your journeys are never more than 75 mile radius from your home without charging. Would i want to pay 25k plus for a car that could only do that? No. They are still a niche product suited to a few.

[Scuba steve]

1 minute ago, ANYWEATHER said:

Tbh, you're about the only one I know who sings EVs praises.  Fair play it suits you that's fine, but there are a lot of disgruntled people who own an EV. 

A friend of mine gave up Porsche Taycan because of the inconvenience of charging at motorway services on  the super fast  charge points  which cost 50 to 60 quid to  80% and 200 or so mile range 

[Polar Maritime]

Dread to think what it would cost to power a battery powered tractor during harvesting times.

I understand there could be a turn over point re-electric costs. But that seems to be futuristic atm.. it's bad enough what with diesel costs the past few years.

A very interesting discussion this

Edited March 23, 2023 by Polar Maritime

[acorb]

5 minutes ago, ANYWEATHER said:

Tbh, you're about the only one I know who sings EVs praises.  Fair play it suits you that's fine, but there are a lot of disgruntled people who own an EV. 

That genuinely surprises me - what are their grumbles? I must admit I was nervous before getting one, I did a lot of research, but it has been a very good and financially advantageous decision. The car itself has blown me away.

Would I buy one? Probably no, the technology is still developing very quickly, they are too expensive to buy and the EVs coming out now are even better still - but for the many of us these days who lease they make a huge amount of sense. 

It probably helps that I don't do very long journeys and can rely on a home charger - but if it can work for me in rural Wales I can imagine it would work in most places.