The Electric Car - saving the climate or just polluting in other ways?

[Bristawl Si]

No surprise, whatsoever, to see the 2030 'deadline' put back to 2035.

The main issue remains though, as i posted back in April - currently, EVs are just too expensive for c80% of the car-driving population, and who'd trust a 2nd-hand EV, if Qs remains about its existing battery life?

The major car manufacturers were whinging earlier today about the decision - no surprise, as they make a shedload of profit out of EVs. Granted their plans are already in place, so i can also see their point.

Anecdotal - our lad has a hybrid; the car wouldnt charge during the v hot days earlier this month, due to the heat.

[Sky Full]

18 minutes ago, cheeky_monkey said:

its super easy to convert liquid water into hydrogen

Do I detect sarcasm…

[Sky Full]

51 minutes ago, razorgrain said:

My only concern here is that it's another platform for outsourcing work to east Asia. There's a multitude of reasons why that's bad for our economy and shifts the pollution into other areas. The amount of back and forth shipping can't be good, for example. Realistically we need to be exploring more localised manufacturing and cutting back on international shipping, but it's just more profitable to outsource everything to China apparently.

Don’t get me going on the loss of our car manufacturing industry.  I guess we just couldn’t modernise it fast enough to compete with Asia and still make enough profit for the shareholders…..

[cheeky_monkey]

27 minutes ago, Sky Full said:

Do I detect sarcasm…

nope..its easier to convert water into hydrogen than oil into petrol for example

[Methuselah]

41 minutes ago, Bristle Si said:

No surprise, whatsoever, to see the 2030 'deadline' put back to 2035.

The main issue remains though, as i posted back in April - currently, EVs are just too expensive for c80% of the car-driving population, and who'd trust a 2nd-hand EV, if Qs remains about its existing battery life?

The major car manufacturers were whinging earlier today about the decision - no surprise, as they make a shedload of profit out of EVs. Granted their plans are already in place, so i can also see their point.

Anecdotal - our lad has a hybrid; the car wouldnt charge during the v hot days earlier this month, due to the heat.

Well, given the number holes HMG is currently digging for itself (and its not wanting to lose what's left of the party faithful, during the run-up to the GE), neither am I surprised! 

[raz.org.rain]

40 minutes ago, Sky Full said:

Don’t get me going on the loss of our car manufacturing industry.  I guess we just couldn’t modernise it fast enough to compete with Asia and still make enough profit for the shareholders…..

It says a lot really. The UK was one of the major automotive development centres, and is the only one that's lost almost the entirety of its self-sufficiency in terms of development and output. There's no domestically owned major brands anymore. A sad story repeated throughout British manufacturing.

[jonboy]

33 minutes ago, cheeky_monkey said:

nope..its easier to convert water into hydrogen than oil into petrol for example

Toyota have a great hydrogen car that's the future not EV's. But you can't make as much profit from generating the energy so it won't happen!!

[alexisj9]

On 23/03/2023 at 17:21, Gowon said:

It's the tyres that are the problem and EVs are making it worse:

Tyre Pollution Nearly 2,000 Times Worse than Car Exhaust Emissions: Study | Earth.Org

EARTH.ORG

---

Heavier battery cars are causing greater wear and more tyre particle pollution than from car exhausts, suggesting the urgent need for stronger regulation.

 

I can see micro bits of rubber being just as bad as micro bits of plastic actually think about it. Good point.

[alexisj9]

On 23/03/2023 at 17:34, Gowon said:

They can make public transport available for those people?

Some around east Kent, and probably other rural areas have only just been cut off, it's a financial thing, and I can't see that suddenly turning around. In fact I expect further cuts if anything.

[alexisj9]

On 23/03/2023 at 17:44, Gowon said:

I forgot to include the people that need vehicles for their jobs, so we can include them in the list that are allowed to stay.

I sort of agree with you in some instances. There are many who use cars to traverse a walkable distance, and only travel far every now and then, may be once a year or less. Pointless having a car really, unless there's a disability, which should also keep their cars for obvious reasons, if everyone who needed to get around who use wheelchairs or mobility scooters,  there wouldn't be enough room on transport for them. However there also wouldn't be enough room for everyone who drives long distance to get to work, so for long distance everyday travel those people should be using cars, but responsibly. IE, they don't need to just drive around the corner to pick up milk, or essentials either.

[alexisj9]

1 hour ago, cheeky_monkey said:

nope..its easier to convert water into hydrogen than oil into petrol for example

Probably part of the oxygen for emergencies production already. So plenty of hydrogen being generated, just needs a way to be distributed.

[cheeky_monkey]

41 minutes ago, alexisj9 said:

Probably part of the oxygen for emergencies production already. So plenty of hydrogen being generated, just needs a way to be distributed.

this is the beauty you can utilize the existing infrastructure in place for petrol stations

[Ross90]

Quite supportive of the changes to be honest. He put the ball in the green lobbies court and so far none of them have properly answered why homeowners and renters should be expected to fork out their own money for half baked ideas that might not even be needed...

[Midlands Ice Age]

The problem with Hydrogen is the cost of splitting the 2 elements.

It is produced today during the production of oil/petrol but this is stopping soon!

It can be done chemically - but afaik - is not a production process.

Electronically it is certainly possible - but uses more electrical power than the hydrogen it produces can generate.

Ideally it is a possible answer .... but not yet.

The other Rishi announcement concerned gas central heating boilers  - they have also been put back until 2035.

Here it is more understandable as 90% of housing still use gas heating.

Solar heating (and the really being pushed  underground heating/heat pumps) are still incredibly expensive for most. IN addition they are quite difficult and expensive to install.

At least they are now giving us 12 years to engage with the issue.

Labour say they will return to the current situation.

MIA 

My position - as soon as the technology is widely and reasonably cheaply available  then the problem will be solved.

Edited September 20, 2023 by Midlands Ice Age

[Bristawl Si]

7 minutes ago, Midlands Ice Age said:

The problem with Hydrogen is the cost of splitting the 2 elements.

It is produced today during the production of oil/petrol but this is stopping soon!

It can be done chemically - but afaik - is not a production process.

Electronically it is certainly possible - but uses more electrical power than the hydrogen it produces can generate.

Ideally it is a possible answer .... but not yet.

The other Rishi announcement concerned gas central heating boilers  - they have also been put back until 2035.

Here it is more understandable as 90% of housing still use gas heating.

Solar heating (and the really being pushed  underground heating/heat pumps) are still incredibly expensive for most. IN addition they are quite difficult and expensive to install.

At least they are now giving us 12 years to engage with the issue.

Labour say they will return to the current situation.

MIA 

Heat pumps are useless if temps outside are below freezing. The technology draws in very cold air and then 'distributes' not very warm air inside. On a very cold day or night it's like leaving your fridge door open and hoping the air will eventually warm up!

Plus, imagine a street of 50 houses, all with their heat pumps running - you'd think you were suddenly living on an industrial estate - the din would be unbearable.

Still, the other 'lot', hoping to get in power, from 2024 will reverse Sunak's announcement.

Maybe they will tell the vast majority of UK folk how they can afford electric cars, and replace their very efficient and warming gas central heating and boilers with useless and expensive-to-install heat pumps.

I'll look forward to another 'pledge' which will get watered down or abandoned by the other 'lot' (to add to the Famous Ten already ditched by SKS).

[Scuba steve]

4 minutes ago, Bristle Si said:

Heat pumps are useless if temps outside are below freezing. The technology draws in very cold air and then 'distributes' not very warm air inside. On a very cold day or night it's like leaving your fridge door open and hoping the air will eventually warm up!

Plus, imagine a street of 50 houses, all with their heat pumps running - you'd think you were suddenly living on an industrial estate - the din would be unbearable.

Still, the other 'lot', hoping to get in power, from 2024 will reverse Sunak's announcement.

Maybe they will tell the vast majority of UK folk how they can afford electric cars, and replace their very efficient and warming gas central heating and boilers with useless and expensive-to-install heat pumps.

I'll look forward to another 'pledge' which will get watered down or abandoned by the other 'lot' (to add to the Famous Ten already ditched by SKS).

There is concern about infrasound problems with multiple units in effect driving people insane 

[cheeky_monkey]

1 hour ago, Scuba steve said:

There is concern about infrasound problems with multiple units in effect driving people insane 

you could move to Canada I'm having 2 new gas furnaces installed in my house very soon along with a new A/C system to replace the old one ..i dont have to worry about bogus tech like heat pumps 

[jtay]

Never bought a new car in my life and never will. Total waste of money.

So me and all the people that Rashi "Seven Bins" Sanook are pretending to protect wouldn't have been affected anyway.

 

 

Edited September 21, 2023 by jtay

[Sky Full]

14 hours ago, cheeky_monkey said:

you could move to Canada I'm having 2 new gas furnaces installed in my house very soon along with a new A/C system to replace the old one ..i dont have to worry about bogus tech like heat pumps 

Does Canada have any policies in place to achieve ‘net zero’, or to ban ICE cars in the future?   It’s a vast country, much of it wilderness and under-populated so I would imagine that electric vehicles wouldn’t be the first choice for private transport?  I can’t see Canadians wanting to ditch petrol or diesel engines for a long time.

[Bristawl Si]

5 hours ago, jtay said:

Never bought a new car in my life and never will. Total waste of money.

So me and all the people that Rashi "Seven Bins" Sanook are pretending to protect wouldn't have been affected anyway.

 

 

Future UK governments will disincentivise peeps from using non-electric cars. The 'other lot' will stick to '2030' - there will likely be increased taxes on unleaded and diesel, and on gas for heating purposes within next 10 years. It wouldnt surprise me one bit if road tax is really hiked by the 'other lot', post 2024, on existing non-electric cars. 'They' have form in cities like London and Bristol (Bath - the 'Other Other lot') already.

 

[Methuselah]

I couldn't help laughing last night when I heard a Tory MP blithely claim that the UK has already reduced its GHG emissions by 300%...  It's a miracle! 

[cheeky_monkey]

2 hours ago, Sky Full said:

Does Canada have any policies in place to achieve ‘net zero’, or to ban ICE cars in the future?   It’s a vast country, much of it wilderness and under-populated so I would imagine that electric vehicles wouldn’t be the first choice for private transport?  I can’t see Canadians wanting to ditch petrol or diesel engines for a long time.

just some vague net zero target of 2050..no strategy around how it is achieved apart from ban on purchasing a new petrol cars from a dealership after 2035...doesn't stop me buying or anyone else buying straight from the manufacturer or any other private sale 

[Sky Full]

19 hours ago, Bristle Si said:

Future UK governments will disincentivise peeps from using non-electric cars. The 'other lot' will stick to '2030' - there will likely be increased taxes on unleaded and diesel, and on gas for heating purposes within next 10 years. It wouldnt surprise me one bit if road tax is really hiked by the 'other lot', post 2024, on existing non-electric cars. 'They' have form in cities like London and Bristol (Bath - the 'Other Other lot') already.

 

Off this particular topic, but I haven’t been able to work out how I’m going to heat my house after the restrictions on hydrocarbon fuels come in as we use heating oil (no mains gas).  I don’t think a heat pump would be a suitable alternative to the instant response of a traditional boiler and there’s no way I’m going to be able to pay for the conversion anyway. 

[ANYWEATHER]

17 hours ago, cheeky_monkey said:

just some vague net zero target of 2050..no strategy around how it is achieved apart from ban on purchasing a new petrol cars from a dealership after 2035...doesn't stop me buying or anyone else buying straight from the manufacturer or any other private sale 

The goal posts will be moved again nearer the time ,just like the rest of the global warming stuff....!

[Scuba steve]

26 minutes ago, Sky Full said:

Off this particular topic, but I haven’t been able to work out how I’m going to heat my house after the restrictions on hydrocarbon fuels come in as we use heating oil (no mains gas).  I don’t think a heat pump would be a suitable alternative to the instant response of a traditional boiler and there’s no way I’m going to be able to pay for the conversion anyway. 

I’m not keen on this lot but I’d consider a lobotomy over the other lot