The Electric Car - saving the climate or just polluting in other ways?

[markyo]

24 minutes ago, Methuselah said:

But, whether we like it or not, oil and gas will soon run out. So, what will we be left with? My guess is renewables of one sort or another... Ergo, EVs will, sooner or later, be the only method of affordable travel. I guess that internal combustion will go the same way as coal-fired steam locomotion -- something for those steeped in nostalgia. 

Ev's are the future without doubt, to deny this is just moronic. Full  Ev usage is still decades away however. How your Ev is powered, that is the crux, external charging off the grid is not it, end of, you are equally as misguided to think otherwise, that will not simply work, the infrastructure changes would be crippling. and very likely impossible in the UK with such a dense population. Synthetic fuels are coming on line now, if that is cracked that could again be another avenue. For now it is a hybrid world we should be looking to, self charging ev's are far more efficient than a stand alone ice don't forget and they can be scrubbed a lot harder for emissions without any effect on performance.

[Bristawl Si]

Just now, markyo said:

Ev's are the future without doubt, to deny this is just moronic. Full  Ev usage is still decades away however. How your Ev is powered, that is the crux, external charging off the grid is not it, end of, you are equally as misguided to think otherwise, that will not simply work, the infrastructure changes would be crippling. and very likely impossible in the UK with such a dense population. Synthetic fuels are coming on line now, if that is cracked that could again be another avenue. For now it is a hybrid world we should be looking to, self charging ev's are far more efficient than a stand alone ice don't forget and they can be scrubbed a lot harder for emissions without any effect on performance.

I know quite a few peeps with hybrids; seems a decent compromise, but isnt the plan for these to be no longer be possible from 2030, new purchases that is?

[markyo]

3 minutes ago, Bristle Si said:

I know quite a few peeps with hybrids; seems a decent compromise, but isnt the plan for these to be no longer be possible from 2030, new purchases that is?

yep it is, its the government forcing us down a one size fits all route, that does not work. Its a knee jerk ill thought out reaction.

[The PIT]

This is interesting

Scratched EV battery? Your insurer may have to junk the whole car

WWW.REUTERS.COM

---

For many electric vehicles, there is no way to repair or assess even slightly damaged battery packs after accidents, forcing insurance companies to write off cars with few miles - leading to higher premiums and...

 

[Gray-Wolf]

There are times I need queue for petrol at the Supermarket

How would it be if only 50% of the cars heading into town every morning then needed to find a 'top up' before the journey home?

How many 'charge points' would such require?.......

[Kiwi]

Potholes are horrendous around here. Mrs Kiwi has just punctured her second tyre in as many months - both potholes!

I know that the budgets for road repairs have been cut but is the extra weight of electric cars contributing to the pothole problem? Dutch research suggests that the weight and acceleration of electric cars causes more rapid deterioration of the tarmac.

"Due to the massive battery, electric cars weigh more than ordinary passenger cars. Because of this bigger weight, not only do the tires wear out faster. According to experts from the Delft University of Technology, the top layer of the asphalt is also likely to wear out more quickly because electric cars have a higher acceleration capacity."

 

[Pennine Ten Foot Drifts]

3 hours ago, Kiwi said:

Potholes are horrendous around here. Mrs Kiwi has just punctured her second tyre in as many months - both potholes!

I know that the budgets for road repairs have been cut but is the extra weight of electric cars contributing to the pothole problem? Dutch research suggests that the weight and acceleration of electric cars causes more rapid deterioration of the tarmac.

"Due to the massive battery, electric cars weigh more than ordinary passenger cars. Because of this bigger weight, not only do the tires wear out faster. According to experts from the Delft University of Technology, the top layer of the asphalt is also likely to wear out more quickly because electric cars have a higher acceleration capacity."

 

Yes EVs are heavier and can accelerate harder, but are still a tiny minority of overall traffic. ALL cars have become much bigger and heavier over the last 20-30 years. However the major contributor to poor road surfaces is the huge cut to local authority funding which has happened over the last 12 years.

[*Stormforce~beka*]

[johnholmes]

Perhaps one of the reasons some roads start to break up quite quickly is that the main basic core was put in decades ago when lorries were far smaller and lighter. When one sees very large articulated trucks on fairly small side roads it is no wonder road surfaces break up. Yes the cuts do cause break up because councils or highway departments do not have the cash to do even sizeable re surfacing down to the new core material.

Just my penorth!

[cheeky_monkey]

3 minutes ago, johnholmes said:

Perhaps one of the reasons some roads start to break up quite quickly is that the main basic core was put in decades ago when lorries were far smaller and lighter. When one sees very large articulated trucks on fairly small side roads it is no wonder road surfaces break up. Yes the cuts do cause break up because councils or highway departments do not have the cash to do even sizeable re surfacing down to the new core material.

Just my penorth!

working in construction as i do..its not an issue of core material..it is the depth and make up of the tarmacadam that determines the strength of the road..footpaths are usually just a single layer 20mm thick ..medium duty which is mostly car parks and B roads are light duty which is made up of a base coat around 40mm thick and a top coat of 20mm..heavy duty A roads and motorways are 80mm base coat with again a top coat of 20mm ..its usually the top coat that degrades first for obvious reasons..at this point you need to strip the top coat regulate the base coat and re top the road...this is where councils fall down..they dont have the budget so end up patching and repairing the top coat which eventually causes damage to occur to the base through weathering etc ..hence you get the big potholes starting to open up.

[SnowBear]

7 hours ago, cheeky_monkey said:

working in construction as i do..its not an issue of core material..it is the depth and make up of the tarmacadam that determines the strength of the road..footpaths are usually just a single layer 20mm thick ..medium duty which is mostly car parks and B roads are light duty which is made up of a base coat around 40mm thick and a top coat of 20mm..heavy duty A roads and motorways are 80mm base coat with again a top coat of 20mm ..its usually the top coat that degrades first for obvious reasons..at this point you need to strip the top coat regulate the base coat and re top the road...this is where councils fall down..they dont have the budget so end up patching and repairing the top coat which eventually causes damage to occur to the base through weathering etc ..hence you get the big potholes starting to open up.

Much of the problem in the UK is we went though a period of using concrete for roads especially housing estates, as the years went by instead of replacing the concrete panels as they wore out (which was about 50 years) they topped off with about 50mm tarmac. 

This doesn't last long as the two materials expand and contract at different rates and also as concrete is not as permeable as tarmac it can trap water underneath the top layer. During winter this water layer can freeze on really cold nights and shatter the tarmac leaving it crazed. Once this happens in a few short months it breaks up and leaves potholes due to heavier vehicles running over the tarmac and smashing the top surface even more due to hydraulic action. 

I also see many road ironworks now not reset properly, often left low after top dressing even if only an inch and again, heavy vehicles drop down into those indentations and hammer them down shattering the drain structure underneath. 

Saw a good one the other day though, a dropped drain near here, their repair? Fill it with tarmac, literally fill it, no drain now!

Edited March 28, 2023 by SnowBear

[Bristawl Si]

8 hours ago, johnholmes said:

Yes the cuts do cause break up because councils or highway departments do not have the cash to do even sizeable re surfacing down to the new core material.

Just my penorth!

Hmm....it's amazing how councils find the cash for other things though

like brand new £multi-million buildings for themselves, even though a large proportion of council staff are still WFH.

Oh, and money for stupid, dangerous electric scooters for peeps to rent and then ride them on pavements or wobble about on roads.

And, of course, continuing to provide bomb-proof pension schemes for their employees, which are underwritten by the taxpayer if investment conditions deteriorate - these schemes account for c20% of every council taxpayers council tax payment every month.

Hmm....yes...the money just isnt there, is it?

And on a more practical note. It seems highways bods at councils havent heard of Frost Riving. Fix the worst potholes in the late Summer/early Autumn and a wet, cold Winter where rainwater freezes at night, wont have the chance to make potholes worse.

And, just so peeps know, if some of you dont know already, go to your local council's website. Search for report a pothole or something similar. Then fill out the form with location of pothole details. It will get logged and within 10 days they'll send a team out to check and identify, and usually spray a little white or yellow circle around the 'offending' pothole. Within another week or so, the pothole should be filled. If you do this, they're bound to sort it.

(Highways England are responsible for motorways and A roads pothole repair, in England).

Edited March 28, 2023 by Bristle Si

[Hairy Celt]

On 23/03/2023 at 19:26, Scuba steve said:

Like you say public transport in rural areas is minimal and non existent in others

Christ on a stick. You have heard of the little word 'change' haven't you?  

[Hairy Celt]

On 23/03/2023 at 18:47, Bristle Si said:

It wouldnt work anywhere. Imagine peeps getting on a bus, en masse, with bags of shopping from a 'big shop' at the local supermarket. Every bus would need a trailer attached to it.

The car is the biggest game changer in people's lives in the last 100 years, end of.

Freedom to travel, when u want, where u want.

Disclaimer: i dont drive, never had a licence and i've used public transport all my life. The only time i'm in a car is with my wife, who absolutely loves to drive.

Look at the impacts of climate change. We need to wean ourselves off cars and soon, amongst a hundred other things, or we're all screwed. 

(Some one tell Putin too, preferably with an ICBM.)

On 28/03/2023 at 22:55, Bristle Si said:

Hmm....it's amazing how councils find the cash for other things though

like brand new £multi-million buildings for themselves, even though a large proportion of council staff are still WFH.

Oh, and money for stupid, dangerous electric scooters for peeps to rent and then ride them on pavements or wobble about on roads.

And, of course, continuing to provide bomb-proof pension schemes for their employees, which are underwritten by the taxpayer if investment conditions deteriorate - these schemes account for c20% of every council taxpayers council tax payment every month.

Hmm....yes...the money just isnt there, is it?

And on a more practical note. It seems highways bods at councils havent heard of Frost Riving. Fix the worst potholes in the late Summer/early Autumn and a wet, cold Winter where rainwater freezes at night, wont have the chance to make potholes worse.

And, just so peeps know, if some of you dont know already, go to your local council's website. Search for report a pothole or something similar. Then fill out the form with location of pothole details. It will get logged and within 10 days they'll send a team out to check and identify, and usually spray a little white or yellow circle around the 'offending' pothole. Within another week or so, the pothole should be filled. If you do this, they're bound to sort it.

(Highways England are responsible for motorways and A roads pothole repair, in England).

 

Edited April 1, 2023 by Polar Maritime
To move discussion on.

[Hairy Celt]

I have a special reason to be vitriolic. I've been off here for a while as my son got hit by a non-electric car while cycling to work. Lucky to have his head in one piece.

[Polar Maritime]

Some posts have had to be hidden, Sensible posts in here please. And keep it polite. 

Edited April 1, 2023 by Polar Maritime

[Scuba steve]

10 minutes ago, Hairy Celt said:

Christ on a stick. You have heard of the little word 'change' haven't you?  

Yes I have heard of change or coercion as it really is and I can assure you I won’t be parting with any of my vehicles including my AMG as  I’m in  the fortunate position of never having to

[Hairy Celt]

7 minutes ago, Scuba steve said:

Yes I have heard of change or coercion as it really is and I can assure you I won’t be parting with any of my vehicles including my AMG as  I’m in  the fortunate position of never having to

Fingers in ears, singing 'lalalalalala' as loud as possible while the planet approaches burning point. 

[Scuba steve]

Just now, Hairy Celt said:

Fingers in ears, singing 'lalalalalala' as loud as possible while the planet approaches burning point. 

Whatever bud maybe I’ll take my fingers out of my ears when I burn

[Hairy Celt]

Just now, Scuba steve said:

Whatever bud maybe I’ll take my fingers out of my ears when I burn

You got any grandchildren? Good luck to them.

[Methuselah]

14 minutes ago, Hairy Celt said:

I have a special reason to be vitriolic. I've been off here for a while as my son got hit by a non-electric car while cycling to work. Lucky to have his head in one piece.

But are you not 'losing the plot' a bit here, HC? Are EVs not heavier than their petrol-powered equivalents: p=mv and all that?

[Polar Maritime]

Come on folks, This realy isn't the way forward...

[Hairy Celt]

11 minutes ago, Polar Maritime said:

Come on folks, This realy isn't the way forward...

No it isn't, you're right. But the climate-change deniers are just so fkn irritating. The science isn't argued over any more but people aren't listening.

13 minutes ago, Methuselah said:

But are you not 'losing the plot' a bit here, HC? Are EVs not heavier than their petrol-powered equivalents: p=mv and all that?

If Edinburgh had trams and buses with enough capacity, and ICE cars were banned, cycling would be a lot safer.

[ANYWEATHER]

Can't understand the friction on here, after all we are talking about EVs , everybody is entitled to their own opinions, ☺

[Hairy Celt]