The Electric Car - saving the climate or just polluting in other ways?

[Polar Maritime]

15 minutes ago, ANYWEATHER said:

everybody is entitled to their own opinions, ☺

They are, But let's not use this or any other thread to refute climate change as 'scare mongering'. This is a factual science based Forum. Let's all move on now please.

Thanks.

Edited April 1, 2023 by Polar Maritime

[Hairy Celt]

I don't accept the constraints imposed on my statements earlier.

Part of the thread's title is the words 'saving the climate'. Hmm. Nope, not gonna do that. We're doomed, doomed, I tell you.

 

Edited April 1, 2023 by Hairy Celt

[Hairy Celt]

Look, the whole point of an EV is to replace an ICE. The electricity for an EV is increasingly coming from renewables. So slag off renewable electricity sources, perhaps they're an eyesore, perhaps they use resources you'd might contrive to say are rare. But we have to reduce CO2 emissions and EVs are part of the picture.

Yet, laughably, comments about potholes are left in the thread.

[Bristawl Si]

Expense is main barrier; secondary is charging. Who wants to wait an hour to 'top-up' when one is only 20 minutes from destination, say, on a 2-hour drive to the coast?

Expense - very few can afford a switch to EV, presently. A long way to go before we can switch away from petrol.

[Hairy Celt]

1 minute ago, Bristle Si said:

Expense is main barrier; secondary is charging. Who wants to wait an hour to 'top-up' when one is only 20 minutes from destination, say, on a 2-hour drive to the coast?

Expense - very few can afford a switch to EV, presently. A long way to go before we can switch away from petrol.

Agreed - cost for most consumers is too great yet. As older EVs come to the 2nd hand market, this will improve. But this is not an argument against the EV as such, it's a result of the lack of investment in manufacturing. 

The thing with charging. The infrastructure is slowly improving, as are batteries. 2 years ago, there were barely any EVs that would have been of use to me in the Highlands - work days of perhaps 250 miles. Yikes, no thanks. Now there are EVs that will do that, and the price is coming down.

A couple of months ago I was thinking of selling my 2 ICE cars and replacing with 1 ICE car - my annual mileage and changes to family circumstances would possibly make this sensible. But when I looked at the market and did the sums, the better option is to keep the 2 ICEs another year or 2 then go electric.

[Scuba steve]

So many issues  with Ev example campsites and caravan parks that have nowhere near the capacity to charge dozens of cars music festivals Glastonbury has over  70 thousand cars on site and Christmas family home from hundreds of miles away 3 extra cars to charge ,chose your swan black or green it’s going to be a miserable future 

[chris78]

25 minutes ago, Scuba steve said:

So many issues  with Ev example campsites and caravan parks that have nowhere near the capacity to charge dozens of cars music festivals Glastonbury has over  70 thousand cars on site and Christmas family home from hundreds of miles away 3 extra cars to charge ,chose your swan black or green it’s going to be a miserable future 

I think that is all right, lots of problems to overcome and some problems that probably won't ever be.  The long and short is we need to use care less.  For all the freedoms they give us, and they clearly do, they also cause so many problems, cluttering up our streets, effecting the easy we plan and build homes, limiting how and where children play, etc.  

[Scuba steve]

7 minutes ago, chris78 said:

I think that is all right, lots of problems to overcome and some problems that probably won't ever be.  The long and short is we need to use care less.  For all the freedoms they give us, and they clearly do, they also cause so many problems, cluttering up our streets, effecting the easy we plan and build homes, limiting how and where children play, etc.  

agreed they can with time 30 to 40 years and 5 to 10 trillion pounds of investment on relivent infrastructure etc

[ANYWEATHER]

57 minutes ago, Scuba steve said:

So many issues  with Ev example campsites and caravan parks that have nowhere near the capacity to charge dozens of cars music festivals Glastonbury has over  70 thousand cars on site and Christmas family home from hundreds of miles away 3 extra cars to charge ,chose your swan black or green it’s going to be a miserable future 

Indeed, it's just another faceat of a Big Brother society. The hirachys are slowly but surely controlling people and lives. We will all be living like robots in the future ,using robotic cars ,told when we can go out and told how much power we can consume etc etc you get my drift!  Big Brother was once a television programme for entertainment, sadly it will become 24/7 in the future. It's already started, with the idea of cars driving themselves, taking what was once initially a fun and exciting thing to do, taking the joy out of people's lives and living back to an austere time . Mobile phones and technology alike are breeding a loveless society with serious mental issues for many. I welcome change but EVs will be part of a controlled society in the future, and let's not forget the serious pollution that these vehicles make, and all the precious metals and minerals that go into making the batteries.  Okay it may not be a problem in your back garden ,but it will be a genuine global problem.

[Hairy Celt]

Resource uses compared between status quo and decarbonising economies - which includes changes in cars from ICE to EV.

[cheeky_monkey]

1 hour ago, Hairy Celt said:

Resource uses compared between status quo and decarbonising economies - which includes changes in cars from ICE to EV.

im all for a greener world..but we are not there yet..see all the big trucks and dumpers in the picture?? they cannot with todays tech run on batteries ..neither can containers ships or any ships or planes etc which pollute and add way more emissions than cars ..if you took all the cars off the road tomorrow oil consumption would only fall by 10%..if you converted all cars to EV you would need to double the capacity of the current grid which wont happen tomorrow ..i always thought Hydrogen fuel cells were the future or even liquid hydrogen powered vehicles ..we are long way from a decarbonized world..unfortunately  poor people in the third world who are scratching out a living dont give a sheet about climate change they just care about getting to the end of the day and putting food on the table

[jaz]

6 minutes ago, cheeky_monkey said:

im all for a greener world..but we are not there yet..see all the big trucks and dumpers in the picture?? they cannot with todays tech run on batteries ..neither can containers ships or any ships or planes etc which pollute and add way more emissions than cars ..if you took all the cars off the road tomorrow oil consumption would only fall by 10%..if you converted all cars to EV you would need to double the capacity of the current grid which wont happen tomorrow ..i always thought Hydrogen fuel cells were the future or even liquid hydrogen powered vehicles ..we are long way from a decarbonized world..unfortunately  poor people in the third world who are scratching out a living dont give a sheet about climate change they just care about getting to the end of the day and putting food on the table

ironically it’s the poor of the third world who have contributed the least to ACC yet are likely to suffer the worst effects in the short to medium term..

[Scuba steve]

4 minutes ago, jaz said:

ironically it’s the poor of the third world who have contributed the least to ACC yet are likely to suffer the worst effects in the short to medium term..

Especially those in the Congo we need them to dig out the cobalt 

[Hairy Celt]

Sometimes I get the feeling that a lot of people in the UK are just happy with their lot and will put up all sorts of specious arguments about how this tech won't work or that process will only help if this, that the other...  and this will work for a few decades, optimistically, because they think we're on a wealthy island (and let's not allow any more dirty scavengers in). Meanwhile the world burns... and we will too eventually.

[Bristawl Si]

I've made it quite clear it's about expense, the main barrier; secondary is charging.

The second one should be easily within grasp to sort, eventually, but the Expense issue aint going away soon and will be a major barrier for c80% of drivers in the UK. 

So, quit the guilt-tripping, HC; there's a good lad.

[Mixer 85]

The hairy lad continues lecturing everyone with ludicrous claims of a burning planet whilst looking out the window at two ICE vehicles in his drive.
All the bluster one can muster doesn’t change facts. There are not enough rare Earth metals to electrify transport on a global scale, along with all the battery storage required to store energy for when the unreliables aren’t working.

Even if the resources were there, we are nowhere near the mining capacity to keep up with demand. Keeping in mind we also need lots of copper to upgrade our grid and build thousands upon thousands of those lovely white bird choppers and thousands of acres of solar panels and the millions of heat pumps. 
 

There are dozens of other problems, many of which have been very well outlined in this thread.

Let’s not forget the cost. The almighty Government subsidies are not going to put an EV in everyone’s driveway and build the necessary infrastructure. Western economies are headed for broke as industry moves to China where energy is affordable and far from clean. 

As for all the poor souls in third world countries who are apparently facing a burning future? Today they are facing disease, poverty, death and starvation. Climate colonialism is what’s keeping them that way. We’ve all had the  chance to use fossil fuels to develop and prosper whilst denying third world countries the support and finances to do the same. 

We can strangle our economies and standard of living in persuit of net zero whilst China and India continue on developing, business as usual, rendering our efforts moot.

But hey, at least we can finger wag and virtue signal.

 

[Methuselah]

3 minutes ago, Mixer 85 said:

The hairy lad continues lecturing everyone with ludicrous claims of a burning planet whilst looking out the window at two ICE vehicles in his drive.
All the bluster one can muster doesn’t change facts. There are not enough rare Earth metals to electrify transport on a global scale, along with all the battery storage required to store energy for when the unreliables aren’t working.

Even if the resources were there, we are nowhere near the mining capacity to keep up with demand. Keeping in mind we also need lots of copper to upgrade our grid and build thousands upon thousands of those lovely white bird choppers and thousands of acres of solar panels and the millions of heat pumps. 
 

There are dozens of other problems, many of which have been very well outlined in this thread.

Let’s not forget the cost. The almighty Government subsidies are not going to put an EV in everyone’s driveway and build the necessary infrastructure. Western economies are headed for broke as industry moves to China where energy is affordable and far from clean. 

As for all the poor souls in third world countries who are apparently facing a burning future? Today they are facing disease, poverty, death and starvation. Climate colonialism is what’s keeping them that way. We’ve all had the  chance to use fossil fuels to develop and prosper whilst denying third world countries the support and finances to do the same. 

We can strangle our economies and standard of living in persuit of net zero whilst China and India continue on developing, business as usual, rendering our efforts moot.

But hey, at least we can finger wag and virtue signal.

At least the 'hairy lad' has enough scientific nous to see past the end of his nose. And, unlike some, sufficient knowledge to see past his wallet! 

[ANYWEATHER]

34 minutes ago, Methuselah said:

At least the 'hairy lad' has enough scientific nous to see past the end of his nose. And, unlike some, sufficient knowledge to see past his wallet! 

Oh my God we are all DOOMED

[Mixer 85]

34 minutes ago, Methuselah said:

At least the 'hairy lad' has enough scientific nous to see past the end of his nose. And, unlike some, sufficient knowledge to see past his wallet! 

Hahahah indeed Pete but down here in the real world we must be pragmatic and consider the limitations of reality.
 

[Hairy Celt]

7 hours ago, Bristle Si said:

I've made it quite clear it's about expense, the main barrier; secondary is charging.

The second one should be easily within grasp to sort, eventually, but the Expense issue aint going away soon and will be a major barrier for c80% of drivers in the UK. 

So, quit the guilt-tripping, HC; there's a good lad.

Patronising weeble-wipe. 

1 hour ago, Mixer 85 said:

The hairy lad continues lecturing everyone with ludicrous claims of a burning planet whilst looking out the window at two ICE vehicles in his drive.
All the bluster one can muster doesn’t change facts. There are not enough rare Earth metals to electrify transport on a global scale, along with all the battery storage required to store energy for when the unreliables aren’t working.

Even if the resources were there, we are nowhere near the mining capacity to keep up with demand. Keeping in mind we also need lots of copper to upgrade our grid and build thousands upon thousands of those lovely white bird choppers and thousands of acres of solar panels and the millions of heat pumps. 
 

There are dozens of other problems, many of which have been very well outlined in this thread.

Let’s not forget the cost. The almighty Government subsidies are not going to put an EV in everyone’s driveway and build the necessary infrastructure. Western economies are headed for broke as industry moves to China where energy is affordable and far from clean. 

As for all the poor souls in third world countries who are apparently facing a burning future? Today they are facing disease, poverty, death and starvation. Climate colonialism is what’s keeping them that way. We’ve all had the  chance to use fossil fuels to develop and prosper whilst denying third world countries the support and finances to do the same. 

We can strangle our economies and standard of living in persuit of net zero whilst China and India continue on developing, business as usual, rendering our efforts moot.

But hey, at least we can finger wag and virtue signal.

 

You too.  Head in the sand. Fkn unreal.

[cheeky_monkey]

another limiting factor is production capacity ..to manufacturer the required amount of batteries to store the energy required based on global output then we are talking about 400 years to do so.

so unless some clever boffins and eggheads have worked out how we power ships and planes and large scale mining machinery tomorrow without fossil fuels ..or how we double the capacity of the electrical grid to power all the EV cars without the infrastructure in place by tomorrow..or how we produce 400 years worth of battery capacity by tomorrow...then we are all doomed and have been for decades ..so lets get the boffins and big knobs round the table and get this sorted!

[Polar Maritime]

Come on folks, I try to be.. let's keep it friendly discussion..

[Wold Topper]

This thread has been an interesting read? BUT for those of us whom may own a classic car or tractor, why should we give up a passion/hobby? I Will not be guilt tripped into giving up what i work hard to enjoy!

[ANYWEATHER]

8 hours ago, Wold Topper said:

This thread has been an interesting read? BUT for those of us whom may own a classic car or tractor, why should we give up a passion/hobby? I Will not be guilt tripped into giving up what i work hard to enjoy!

Yes too right, you do remember it's going to be a controlling society in the future, as I said a few paragraphs up .....EVs will only reinforce that .....

[Scuba steve]

9 hours ago, Wold Topper said:

This thread has been an interesting read? BUT for those of us whom may own a classic car or tractor, why should we give up a passion/hobby? I Will not be guilt tripped into giving up what i work hard to enjoy!

Me neither they seem to think the world will function after they try to ban ice cars i so hope there’s civil unrest and we ditch these lunatics to the dustbin of history