The Electric Car - saving the climate or just polluting in other ways?

[WYorksWeather]

10 minutes ago, Scuba steve said:

Perhaps it’s because it’s a forced agenda and not market driven,after all anything worth having people will flock to buy

So were anti-smoking laws, health and safety, etc. If you don't agree that modern climate change a. exists and b. is primarily due to human activity, I wouldn't expect you to support the EV transition.

Of course those of us who accept the IPCC consensus view things differently.

Don't want to derail this thread with politics so I'll leave it at that.

[Scuba steve]

5 minutes ago, WYorksWeather said:

So were anti-smoking laws, health and safety, etc. If you don't agree that modern climate change a. exists and b. is primarily due to human activity, I wouldn't expect you to support the EV transition.

Of course those of us who accept the IPCC consensus view things differently.

Don't want to derail this thread with politics so I'll leave it at that.

I try  not to go into my politics and beliefs regarding AGW as it’s not the place to do so ,I just don’t think the technology is there yet,and yes I’ve driven a Tesla and it was impressive but not for me 

[WYorksWeather]

52 minutes ago, Scuba steve said:

I try  not to go into my politics and beliefs regarding AGW as it’s not the place to do so ,I just don’t think the technology is there yet,and yes I’ve driven a Tesla and it was impressive but not for me 

Let's leave it at that then - I'm not aiming to start fights on this forum. Life is too short!

[Scuba steve]

1 minute ago, WYorksWeather said:

Let's leave it at that then - I'm not aiming to start fights on this forum. Life is too short!

To true

[Midlands Ice Age]

1 hour ago, Methuselah said:

But aren't apps market-driven?

Apps aren't market driven.

They attempt to create or manipulate markets frequently where one doesn't exist. They tend to fail quite quickly if there is little market interest.

MIA

[Methuselah]

5 minutes ago, Midlands Ice Age said:

Apps aren't market driven.

They attempt to create or manipulate markets frequently where one doesn't exist. They tend to fail quite quickly if there is little market interest.

MIA

Well, that's a relief, MIA. . . The only apps I have are what used to be called programs! 

[Sky Full]

22 hours ago, WYorksWeather said:

So were anti-smoking laws, health and safety, etc. If you don't agree that modern climate change a. exists and b. is primarily due to human activity, I wouldn't expect you to support the EV transition.  ……

Surely it’s perfectly possible to agree with your points a) and b) but also not believe that the forced transition to EVs is the answer?  In my opinion, EVs come way down the list of things the human race could do to combat humanity-induced climate change but unfortunately the most critical changes in our treatment of the planet must be made globally, by everyone at once, in order to have any benefit.  Swapping to EVs may be a part of the solution, but it’s only a tiny part when compared with the destruction of rain forests, and the emissions from industry, aircraft and commercial shipping.

[WYorksWeather]

1 minute ago, Sky Full said:

Surely it’s perfectly possible to agree with your points a) and b) but also not believe that the forced transition to EVs is the answer?  In my opinion, EVs come way down the list of things the human race could do to combat humanity-induced climate change but unfortunately the most critical changes in our treatment of the planet must be made globally, by everyone at once, in order to have any benefit.  Swapping to EVs may be a part of the solution, but it’s only a tiny part when compared with the destruction of rain forests, and the emissions from industry, aircraft and commercial shipping.

Ah sorry - classic poor wording from me.

My point is that if you don't agree with a) and b), there'd be no reason to support a transition to EVs. Putting myself in the position of someone who has that view, well then there are no CO2-related benefits to EVs over ICEs, so there'd be no reason to change, except on pure cost grounds.

I'm not necessarily saying that if you agree with a) and b), you must support a transition to EVs. And I agree that EVs are only a small part of the solution. But I really don't see any alternative to having them as part of the solution. Public transport and active travel may replace cars or partially replace cars for some people, but clearly not for everyone, and the only feasible way to get a zero-tailpipe-emission car at the moment is an EV. Hydrogen cars are pretty much a bust - either you use fossil-derived hydrogen which has no benefit, or you pay three to four times the cost of existing fuels for green hydrogen, which will make an EV look cheap!

 

 

[Sky Full]

Headlines today:  

All flights suspended as large fire breaks out at London Luton Airport  
Witnesses report cars exploding as fire service tells people to avoid the area

No reports yet on the cause of this extremely damaging fire but it would be a huge story if an EV started it.  I wonder if the Fire Brigade will announce the cause of this disaster in the next few days.

[Scuba steve]

14 minutes ago, Sky Full said:

Headlines today:  

All flights suspended as large fire breaks out at London Luton Airport  
Witnesses report cars exploding as fire service tells people to avoid the area

No reports yet on the cause of this extremely damaging fire but it would be a huge story if an EV started it.  I wonder if the Fire Brigade will announce the cause of this disaster in the next few days.

My money is on an EV 

[Scuba steve]

13 minutes ago, Scuba steve said:

My money is on an EV 

Actually it might not be possibly an LR  discovery which are known to  spontaneously combust 

[ANYWEATHER]

6 minutes ago, Scuba steve said:

Actually it might not be possibly an LR  discovery which are known to  spontaneously combust 

What’s an LR?

Just now, ANYWEATHER said:

What’s an LR?

Sorry Land Rover!

[jonboy]

Some of the eye witness reports would suggest an EV. I wouldn't be surprised if all 1200 cars are lost as much down to the structural instability and the cost to shore up the floors before anything can be moved on ground floor.  I would say everything above ground floor level is gone. 

[Sky Full]

13 minutes ago, jonboy said:

Some of the eye witness reports would suggest an EV. I wouldn't be surprised if all 1200 cars are lost as much down to the structural instability and the cost to shore up the floors before anything can be moved on ground floor.  I would say everything above ground floor level is gone. 

Well that would mean self-igniting EVs have already sunk a cargo ferry and destroyed a car park in the space of four months.  One more such disaster would have to be enough for a public enquiry into the long term safety of these vehicles if we are all expected to switch to them over the next 20 years.  My decision has already been made - I’ll never buy one and I will just have to make my ICE stay alive as long as I do!

Edited October 11, 2023 by Sky Full

[Sky Full]

Oh dear!  That DOES look like a Landrover…..  (Range Rover)

Is this the car that started the London Luton car park fire? Moment vehicle goes up in flames before inferno caused £20m structure to collapse - sparking chaos with all flights cancelled until 3pm and five rushed to hospital | Daily Mail Online

MOL.IM

---

Fire crews spent some 12 hours battling the inferno at the airport's £20m Terminal Car Park 2 after the multi-storey was engulfed by flames and caved in just before 9pm...

 

 

Edited October 11, 2023 by Sky Full

[Bristawl Si]

19 minutes ago, Sky Full said:

Well that would mean self-igniting EVs have already sunk a cargo ferry and destroyed a car park in the space of four months.  One more such disaster would have to be enough for a public enquiry into the long term safety of these vehicles if we are all expected to switch to them over the next 20 years.  My decision has already been made - I’ll never buy one and I will just have to make my ICE stay alive as long as I do!

If it's an EV another massive issue is car insurance. Prices will soar for owners of an EV. Actually they are already rising and likely to continue rising, because of EV repair costs.

Already reports suggest there are not enough car technicans/car mechanics in the UK, with new required skills to service and repair EVs, esp when things go wrong.

Edit: Diesel vehicle, early reports suggest.

 

Edited October 11, 2023 by Bristle Si

[jonboy]

Reports seem to confirm a diesel car started the fire.  It will be interesting to read the reports once investigation completed as the spread and speed of the fire is quite extreme. 

[jonboy]

Fire service now reporting that a 'lot' of EV involved from early on in the fire which would account for the intensity and speed of the fire.

[richie3846]

3 minutes ago, jonboy said:

Fire service now reporting that a 'lot' of EV involved from early on in the fire which would account for the intensity and speed of the fire.

This is exactly what I was expecting. Do you have any links to this information please?

[jonboy]

6 minutes ago, richie3846 said:

This is exactly what I was expecting. Do you have any links to this information please?

Its on the BBC feed into the incident. 

[richie3846]

3 minutes ago, jonboy said:

Its on the BBC feed into the incident. 

I hope this is fully investigated. We need to know the impact EVs had on this fire, and if they caused the injuries to the emergency services which have been reported. 

[Methuselah]

But, had there been no diesel cars in the car park, the fire would never have started in the first place? 

[Scuba steve]

1 hour ago, Bristle Si said:

If it's an EV another massive issue is car insurance. Prices will soar for owners of an EV. Actually they are already rising and likely to continue rising, because of EV repair costs.

Already reports suggest there are not enough car technicans/car mechanics in the UK, with new required skills to service and repair EVs, esp when things go wrong.

Edit: Diesel vehicle, early reports suggest.

 

So if an ICE vehicle spontaneously ignites next to EVs we have a big problem in safety with them , expensive loss probably in the region of 50 to 60 million pounds 

[richie3846]

5 minutes ago, Methuselah said:

But, had there been no diesel cars in the car park, the fire would never have started in the first place? 

Excellent point, but we aren't going to be living in an EV world for many decades yet, so we can expect diesel and petrol cars to exist for a long time, alongside EVs in multistorey carparks, and ferries. 

[Scuba steve]

There’s a lot saying the Range Rover is driving past the inferno which is behind a wall to left of image note the lights are on