The Heat Haters Club 2023

[lassie23]

10 hours ago, Don said:

We have another four days of this!

the end is nighish then lol

[Dami]

yeah i believe it's going to get worst till it gets better. I am already a hot sweaty mess. 

[Beanz]

1 hour ago, Schnee said:

I'm researching proper heat pumps, not the half a heatpump system that the Gov are pestering us to get. I want a heat pump that will do heat and cold. Future plan it...

It would necessitate the removal of all the radiators and convert the house to an air based heat/cool system. In these homes, that won't be simple with the location challenges with a ducted USA style system. Indoor cassette units in every room would look ugly both inside and outside with the numerous linesets.

Personally, unless you have the capital to spend and your house is suitable for a full heat pump retrofit, I wouldn’t bother.  

I will probably fit solar panels, BESS and heat pumps to certain areas.  With a bit of carpentry and creativity, most of the hardware can be integrated into the existing fabric of the building.  

As an alternative, albeit not a ‘cooling’ device, I’ve been hearing good things about positive air systems, which if you have an external feed can do quite a bit to reduce the indoor temperature overnight.  Problem is they don’t do much during the day apart from keep an airflow.  During the winter they keep moisture levels down.  They are much cheaper, but not really a replacement for AC.  

I’m still not sure which way to go.
 

 

[The PIT]

1 hour ago, Schnee said:

I'm researching proper heat pumps, not the half a heatpump system that the Gov are pestering us to get. I want a heat pump that will do heat and cold. Future plan it...

It would necessitate the removal of all the radiators and convert the house to an air based heat/cool system. In these homes, that won't be simple with the location challenges with a ducted USA style system. Indoor cassette units in every room would look ugly both inside and outside with the numerous linesets.

Much easier and cheaper to go with electric combo which is a straight drop in replacement for an existing combo. Sign up for one of those electricity only from a green source and there you go.

If you go for the full heat pump idea you'll need to locate hot water well away from any sleeping areas as the system is noisy. Last I heard you can't combine solar panels with a heat pump.

 

Back on subject it actually felt cool walking back from the park.

Edited September 8, 2023 by The PIT

[Chris J]

1 hour ago, Schnee said:

I'm researching proper heat pumps, not the half a heatpump system that the Gov are pestering us to get. I want a heat pump that will do heat and cold. Future plan it...

It would necessitate the removal of all the radiators and convert the house to an air based heat/cool system. In these homes, that won't be simple with the location challenges with a ducted USA style system. Indoor cassette units in every room would look ugly both inside and outside with the numerous linesets.

Have a look at the IQOOL-SMART15HP these are a halfway house between having a portable Air con with a hose hanging out of the window and a full blown split unit with inside and outside units as they don't need an outside unit hanging off the wall or planning permission in areas which may require it.

They can be DIY fitted too as they come pre-charged and so no need to have approval to handle and connect refrigerant gases. They just need a couple of 7" holes core drilled and a smaller one for the condensate.

They are also heat pump based, so you get cheaper heat from the unit during Winter too.

They are more expensive than a portable air con but are more flexible having the heat option and not having to stuff up gaps around an open window. If I wanted to just cool down a small building or certain rooms, £850 a unit will work out far cheaper for heating / cooling 3 or 4 rooms than a full blown Heat Pump system along with the upheaval of lifting floor boards and carpets to lay new piping, fit massive radiators and the cost of specialist fitment. These can be fitted yourself or by the local handyman service.

One thing to keep in mind is that the UK has one of the highest Electricity prices in the world at 30p / kwh, and with Wind and Solar often only generating 5% of our total grid needs I don't see reliance on CCGT powered by expensive Gas to generate the bulk of our energy changing for at least the next decade. So I think for house heating then Gas and even heating oil will still remain the cheaper option for a while regardless of what the Government and Green Taliban say. They simply haven't got anything else to switch to, in order to make it cheaper!. So the running costs should obviously be kept in mind. This unit will cost just over 30p an hour to run in Air con mode at current average prices, but under 30p for heat.

I have relatives in Jersey who pay 18p kwh for Electricity and 8p kwh for Heating Electricity (similar to E10). That price is with both Jersey Electric and the French Energy company they buy it from making huge profits! so it just shows how much over the odds we are paying here

Buy electriQ iQool 12000 BTU Wall Mounted Smart Air Conditioner with Heat Pump - No Outdoor Unit Needed from Aircon Direct

WWW.AIRCONDIRECT.CO.UK

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Buy electriQ iQool 12000 BTU Wall Mounted Smart Air Conditioner with Heat Pump - No Outdoor Unit Needed from Aircon Direct

 

Edited September 8, 2023 by Chris J

[*Stormforce~beka*]

9 hours ago, Beanz said:

What really grinds my gears is that my bedroom is that much hotter than outside…why am I not sleeping on the lawn…

Get out on the lawn indeed lol!

[Beanz]

1 minute ago, *Stormforce~beka* said:

Get out on the lawn indeed lol!

It’s the creepy crawlies that stopped me! 

[The PIT]

heat pump water tanks noise

of course technology improves with time but I wouldn't want one of those in my house.  I did come across a review when the heat pump idea was leaked and the person who lived in the house had to turn the unit off at night becuase they couldn't sleep and regretted going down that road. I can't find that review of course.

[Katrine Basso]

I live on the bottom floor of  a blocked of maisonette flats that were built in the 1950's.  I have both blackout blinds and blackout curtains in both my bedroom and living room.  I got the blackout blinds and curtains to block out the street light.  The bedroom  blackout blinds and curtains was because the street light stopped me sleeping. I now have double glazed windows in the front and back of my flats.

I am glad I am got them and say they have 3 purposes, one to to block out street light, one to keep me warm in winter (as all the maisonette flats have high ceilings) and to keep cool in summer.

[Katrine Basso]

I drink chilled water cooled in 2 litre water bottle with a peach flavoured tea pig bag which I put into the freezer before drinking.  I am waiting for it to  become slightly frozen before drinking.

[Nick L]

Spoke too soon about unpleasant heat being difficult to achieve in September. Been up in Glasgow the last few days for work and was having to wear a suit doing a training course in a south-facing room with no air conditioning - horrendous.

[The PIT]

It's impressive how awarm it is today despite the high cloud making it very hazy. If the cloud wasn't there it would probably be around 28C now rather than 25C

[Nick L]

39 minutes ago, The PIT said:

It's impressive how awarm it is today despite the high cloud making it very hazy. If the cloud wasn't there it would probably be around 28C now rather than 25C

Humidity is both impressive and oppressive too, we're pushing 20C dew points here.

[The PIT]

12 minutes ago, Nick L said:

Humidity is both impressive and oppressive too, we're pushing 20C dew points here.

19.6C here going up as the day goes on. The sky is all high level cirrus and some cirrocumulus and still the temp goes up now 26.6C. Clear skies probably be 32C now okay thats guess work but probably wouldn't be far off.

[mike57]

3 hours ago, Chris J said:

Have a look at the IQOOL-SMART15HP

Thanks for that link, this is what I have been looking for. SWMBO wants our bedroom redecorating soon, so my thought is to do aircon at the same time, aircon is also on SWMBO wish list, and mine as well. Probably do it over this winter. Whilst running costs are a consideration there comes a point where you just have to suck it up because of discomfort. Our bedroom faces SW with a low horizon, so in the summer gets full sun right up until sunset. I have put solar film on the window, which is quite large, and this helps. In high summer we have some extra reflective boards to further reduce heat, but over the last few summers they are not proving to be enough. Passive measures can only go so far.

[Frigid]

Surprised how cloudy it is today, was expecting it to be 26/27C by now but it's only 23. Edinburgh is actually warmer at 25C. Still, it feels uncomfortable with those dew points. 

[reef]

We bit the bullet in June 2022 and got split air conditioning installed as this house is so well insulated it becomes unbearable in summer.

I'll be honest, it has been a game changer. We have one external unit which feeds three internal units in the kitchen, living room and bedroom. It just takes a couple of hours in the evening and the whole house is back to a pleasant temperature. The mobile units pale in comparison and it uses very little energy (about 900w per inverter).

They also double up as heaters in winter too. 

Edited September 8, 2023 by reef

[mike57]

This spell also raises the question, what temperature would have been acheived if this set-up had occured in July?

My guess is well north of 40c. I hate to say this but I predict that the current 40c record will be broken again in the next few years.

Also just noted that Aultbea, on the NW coast of Scotland is currently showing 23.9c, that would be pretty exceptional even in high summer.

Edited September 8, 2023 by mike57
Update

[Beanz]

3 hours ago, The PIT said:

Last I heard you can't combine solar panels with a heat pump.

You can power heat pumps with electricity from Solar PV panels, it’s quite a common system for those wanting to reduce their dependency on grid supplied power.  The question is whether the roof of the property is suitable for the size of the system.  

[Chris J]

1 hour ago, Beanz said:

You can power heat pumps with electricity from Solar PV panels, it’s quite a common system for those wanting to reduce their dependency on grid supplied power.  The question is whether the roof of the property is suitable for the size of the system.  

Also make sure that whoever installs your system offers a guarantee for both parts and labour on ALL of the parts within the system for at least the length of your original installation cost payback period. I've heard plenty of horror stories of people having to buy new inverters even before they recouped their original outlay from the installation. You really don't want to be spending money on replacing expensive parts BEFORE you have actually started saving money!.

Its common for some manufacturers to offer up to 25 years warranty on panels but only 1 - 5 years on the inverter. MTBF Odds definitely in their favour on that one......

So, if you calculate that your installation will take 10 years for you to make your original £6000 outlay back in energy savings, then make sure that all of the parts have a warranty for at least those 10 years. If you have to pay £1000 for a new inverter 3 years into that, then the clock extends on the payback and your installation could always be in debt to you.

There is a placebo effect of paying £6000 for the installation, then seeing the reduction in energy cost and immediately thinking you are saving money. In reality you aren't, that only begins when you have saved that £6000. From £6000.01 then you are saving money until that point your savings in energy are simply paying off the intial installation cost. Strangely This is often a point missed off the glossy brochures and sales patter. 

That advice applies with battery banks too. Make sure the cells and BMS all have long warranties.

Finally, choose an installer who has been around for a while. If "The happy dragon solar installation company" go bust 3 years after your installation, you may end up with a 10 year warranty worth nothing from that point. Read the small print as to who is underwriting the warranty.

Edited September 8, 2023 by Chris J

[Beanz]

10 minutes ago, Chris J said:

Also make sure that whoever installs your system offers a guarantee for both parts and labour on ALL of the parts within the system for at least the length of your original installation cost payback period. I've heard plenty of horror stories of people having to buy new inverters even before they recouped their original outlay from the installation. You really don't want to be spending money on replacing expensive parts BEFORE you have actually started saving money!.

Its common for some manufacturers to offer up to 25 years warranty on panels but only 1 - 5 years on the inverter. MTBF Odds definitely in their favour on that one......

So, if you calculate that your installation will take 10 years for you to make your original £6000 outlay back in energy savings, then make sure that all of the parts have a warranty for at least those 10 years. If you have to pay £1000 for a new inverter 3 years into that, then the clock extends on the payback and your installation could always be in debt to you.

There is a placebo effect of paying £6000 for the installation, then seeing the reduction in energy cost and immediately thinking you are saving money. In reality you aren't, that only begins when you have saved that £6000. From £6000.01 then you are saving money until that point your savings in energy are simply paying off the intial installation cost. Strangely This is often a point missed off the glossy brochures and sales patter. 

That advice applies with battery banks too. Make sure the cells and BMS all have long warranties.

Finally, choose an installer who has been around for a while. If "The happy dragon solar installation company" go bust 3 years after your installation, you may end up with a 10 year warranty worth nothing from that point. Read the small print as to who is underwriting the warranty.

Funnily enough I’m literally sitting here calculating invertor replacement costs for 15MW Solar project - no warranty on that though! 

[Rufus Butterfield]

I’ll join in here, I usually love warm humid weather, because it makes me feel like I’m holiday. But ever since working at a garden centre in a greenhouse, it is starting to take the mick. Drenched in sweat within minutes, drinking litres and litres of water and I’m not even going to the toilet, just sweating it away.

[mike57]

24 minutes ago, Chris J said:

Also make sure that whoever installs your system offers a guarantee for both parts and labour on ALL of the parts within the system for at least the length of your original installation cost payback period.

I think the inverters might be an issue for a longer warranty. I use inverters in industry for motor applications and its very rare to get more than a 3 year warranty. By the nature of what they are they are the bit most likely to fail. Any longer warranties would probably be insurance based, and might work out quite expensive.

The economics of solar look pretty bleak to be honest with long payback periods unless you can get subsidies.

[reef]

25 minutes ago, mike57 said:

I think the inverters might be an issue for a longer warranty. I use inverters in industry for motor applications and its very rare to get more than a 3 year warranty. By the nature of what they are they are the bit most likely to fail. Any longer warranties would probably be insurance based, and might work out quite expensive.

The economics of solar look pretty bleak to be honest with long payback periods unless you can get subsidies.

We've actually found the opposite with solar Mike. We had it installed late-January and I expected a payback period of around 12 years as we got quite a bit of battery storage too. As it turns out, despite not being a particularly sunny year, we're looking at around 8-9 years instead. Our inverter has a 10 year warranty, panels 25 years and the battery is guaranteed for 6000 charge/discharge cycles before losing 20% of capacity. On our usage that's about 16 years and even after that, they'll still work.

The big difference now is there are finally some decent tariffs which pay a good amount on energy you generate. We're on Octopus Flux and get 18p per kWh exported and 29p if its between 4-7pm. Yesterday for example we fully charged our 12.25kWh batteries, used quite a bit ourselves and exported 10.1kWh and so will be credited nearly £2. Our electricity bill since 26th January is currently -£47. SO we're nearly £950 in the black already just since then.

There's also the bonus that the air con we're using during hot spells is costing us nothing.

Don't get me wrong its a large initial outlay, but with energy costs as they are now it finally seems sensible.

[Ross90]

26c today is the joint warmest Septmeber day up here that I can remember in the last 20 years. On the plus side it was getting to 30c + upstairs when we had those temps in June but the weaker sun means the windows don't feel like radiators anymore and the indoor temp is peaking just under 30c, currently 28.3c.