Winter 2023/24 Chat and Discussion

[LetItSnow!]

Fantastic charts on offer for those of the cold persuasion today. Forget a December to Remember, here's to a January to... Remember! One can only hope that it's 2024's way of telling 2023's weather to eff off.

[Weather-history]

54 minutes ago, Scorcher said:

What a truly horrific period of weather this has been. A long dry period is needed now. One of the most depressing periods I can remember in my life.

I'm not usually a cold fan but I will take anything to break this pattern and allow the ground to dry out. The sight of my constantly waterlogged garden with a backdrop of relentless grey is hugely depressing.

The second half of 2023 has been largely terrible and that includes that September. It looks as though it has been the  wettest second half of a year since 1954 for our region.

[Petorious]

Literally in shock today thinking at just how much rain we have had and its still chucking it down, I don't think I remember in life it being this wet for so long! We need a couple of months of pretty calm dry weather now but I don't hold much hope. 

[tricol]

Yip, the amount of rain is crazy. I went for a road bike ride yesterday, I've never seen so many fields and roads flooded. I can't see any dry period coming to be honest. It's rain after rain, and now another storm. How many named storms do we usually get in a year? Feels like we've had more than the average so far.

[Scorcher]

31 minutes ago, Weather-history said:

The second half of 2023 has been largely terrible and that includes that September. It looks as though it has been the  wettest second half of a year since 1954 for our region.

Yes hard to forget that terrible July and August. September was only around average sunshine-wise in this area. Looks like Rostherne only recorded 510 hours of sunshine for the 2nd half of the year from July to December.

Edited January 2 by Scorcher

[CryoraptorA303]

2 hours ago, In Absence of True Seasons said:

Truly feel for tourists who took a holiday to London over the Christmas period. What grim conditions, just constant rain every day, who wants to go around Xmas markets or explore London's streets in this nonsense?

Who wants to do that anyway I have no idea why foreigners keep falling for the propaganda that London is the best city in the world or whatever. It's just every bogstandard large city but smaller than most of them and with more homelessness.

2 hours ago, SunnyG said:

I have never understood this. When I lived in Rome (way more dry than UK can ever get) we never had hose pipe bans or other water restrictions. Never heard of it over there...

 

1 hour ago, LRD said:

Rome is wetter than London

Indeed, Rome is wetter than London, but the precipitation is more seasonal. They have a heavy storm season in the autumn and summer is a lot drier.

However, as this is the normal annual climate for them, they have better infrastructure to deal with the dry periods. In the UK our rainfall is traditionally more evenly spread throughout the year (although this is becoming less and less true as time goes on for several areas), so we don't have the infrastructure to deal with the prolonged dry period followed by intense rainfall cycle which is becoming more common.

12 hours ago, MP-R said:

So we can conclude that dry spells in spring/summer following copious rain will not present problems. Dry spells following dry preceding autumns and winters often will.

I believe you're forgetting 2022 - Much of 2021 was very wet, October 2021 had been considerably wetter than average for instance. As had February 2022, and the second half of 2020 before it - October 2020 was extremely wet. However all it took was a few months of dryness and sunshine in the spring and then the hot weather to start moving in for reservoirs to be nuked. An even more extreme example would be May/June this year. Even after the extremely wet start to spring, all it took was a few weeks of sunshine in May and consistent heat in June to totally dry the ground out again. The grass round here incessantly browned and the soil was as dry as it was in August 2022 by the time the rains came in early July. As I have said numerous, numerous times now, heavy and incessant rainfall is not good for replenishing groundwater as the soil will waterlog quickly and much of the rain is just sliding off onto roads or sitting as makeshift ponds that will disappear the moment the Sun comes out for a few days. This prolonged dryhot/extreme rainfall fast food regime we've been on for the last few years is just ruining soil quality.

2 hours ago, SunnyG said:

Silver lining to all this rain is how mild it is. Honestly, sometimes it's been colder than today back in July last year lmao

No it wasn't, don't be ridiculous. July was mild but not so mild as to have daily maxima below what we've been having. If you're going to moan about July 2023 then talk about the extreme rainfall.

Also not really a silver lining, the extreme mildness is causing a hilariously early bloom. The extreme weather we've been having over the past few years, both dryhot and wetmild, are seriously interfering with nature now.

[SunnyG]

Rome is not wetter than London lmao what are you talking about. Maybe once upon a time it was, but recently? No way.

Edited January 2 by SunnyG

[Frigid]

I'll take it. Seriously, anything will be better than what we've seen in the past few weeks. A week of sunshine and frosts is more than welcome..

[LRD]

2 minutes ago, SunnyG said:

Rome is not wetter than London lmao what are you talking about. Maybe once upon a time it was, but recently? No way.

Yes it is.

Dunno why you have to be rude about it

Compare the Climate and Weather in Rome and London - Weather Spark

WEATHERSPARK.COM

 

Compare the Climate and Weather in Rome and London - Weather Spark.url

[CryoraptorA303]

Also of note, it looks like there's a big SE/NW divide in terms of the second half of the year. Here at the east coast September was very sunny, very dry and extremely warm. I can only remember about four overcast days in the entire month for my area. The first two weeks of October were similar. We still had green trees in the third week of October before the autumn fall finally began, and it only really finished in the first week of December. A lot of the hedges have completely failed to go into winter and are holding on to their orange leaves. Honestly I think a lot of the fall in November only happened because of the extreme rain and wind blowing the leaves off, otherwise we'd still have browning trees now similar to the hedges. There's even a little bit of green on one hedge row outside Absolute failure of the colder season to take hold.

5 minutes ago, SunnyG said:

Rome is not wetter than London lmao what are you talking about. Maybe once upon a time it was, but recently? No way.

The only oceanic climates in the world drier than London and East Anglia are highly continental shifted ones that are borderline semi-arid.

[CharlieBear9]

3 hours ago, SunnyG said:

Silver lining to all this rain is how mild it is. Honestly, sometimes it's been colder than today back in July last year lmao

 

Silver lining?

If it hadn't been mild all autumn and winter, to date, everywhere wouldn't be so wet.

[SunnyG]

4 minutes ago, LRD said:

Yes it is.

Dunno why you have to be rude about it

Compare the Climate and Weather in Rome and London - Weather Spark

WEATHERSPARK.COM

 

Compare the Climate and Weather in Rome and London - Weather Spark.url 141 B · 0 downloads

I lived there and now I live in London and didn't feel that way but I bow to the stats Apologies if I sounded rude, I didn't mean to... sometimes humour gets lost in translation x

2 minutes ago, CharlieBear9 said:

Silver lining?

If it hadn't been mild all autumn and winter, to date, everywhere wouldn't be so wet.

Silver lining as it could be wet AND cold. It's a very thin silver lining, admittedly

[CryoraptorA303]

1 minute ago, SunnyG said:

I lived there and now I live in London and didn't feel that way but I bow to the stats Apologies if I sounded rude, I didn't mean to... sometimes humour gets lost in translation x

Of course it would - Summer there is a lot drier while London will have notable rain. A lot of the storm season rainfall in that region also only comes as a few intense systems if I'm not mistaken, vs our constant barrage.

[LRD]

Just now, SunnyG said:

I lived there and now I live in London and didn't feel that way but I bow to the stats Apologies if I sounded rude, I didn't mean to... sometimes humour gets lost in translation x

In Rome when it rains it rains like it means it. Hence they get more rain overall, annually. We just get crap drizzle all the time. They get more thunderstorms. I'd much rather Rome's climate than London's

[Scorcher]

5 minutes ago, CryoraptorA303 said:

Also of note, it looks like there's a big SE/NW divide in terms of the second half of the year. Here at the east coast September was very sunny, very dry and extremely warm. I can only remember about four overcast days in the entire month for my area. The first two weeks of October were similar. We still had green trees in the third week of October before the autumn fall finally began, and it only really finished in the first week of December. A lot of the hedges have completely failed to go into winter and are holding on to their orange leaves. Honestly I think a lot of the fall in November only happened because of the extreme rain and wind blowing the leaves off, otherwise we'd still have browning trees now similar to the hedges. There's even a little bit of green on one hedge row outside Absolute failure of the colder season to take hold.

It hasn't been that sunny at Heathrow either over the past few months- in fact December was duller than here at Heathrow. September was only slightly above the seasonal average for sunshine there and October and November around average. July and August were both considerably below average but less so than here.

[SunnyG]

1 minute ago, LRD said:

In Rome when it rains it rains like it means it. Hence they get more rain overall, annually. We just get crap drizzle all the time. They get more thunderstorms. I'd much rather Rome's climate than London's

I couldn't agree more. I had to come back here but god do I miss the Roman sunshine

Edited January 2 by SunnyG

[LRD]

Just now, Scorcher said:

It hasn't been that sunny at Heathrow either over the past few months- in fact December was duller than here at Heathrow. September was only slightly above the seasonal average for sunshine there and October and November around average. July and August were both considerably below average but less so than here.

Generally, though, the SE does seem to have a different climate compared to the rest of the UK. A line from, say, The Wash down to Hampshire, SE-wards is, generally, far drier than the rest of the UK. We've had some reasonable summers down here when the rest of the country have had mediocre summer conditions

[In Absence of True Seasons]

17 minutes ago, CryoraptorA303 said:

No it wasn't, don't be ridiculous. July was mild but not so mild as to have daily maxima below what we've been having. If you're going to moan about July 2023 then talk about the extreme rainfall

It's hyperbole, but not by much. In my area, there were several days in the month where the day max was 16c. One day it reached only 15c (the Saturday where it rained the entire day). 

I've been seeing had day maxes the last couple weeks that are not far off this. 14c, and I'm pretty sure Christmas day was 15c. 

Obviously the minimums will be colder

[kold weather]

5 minutes ago, LRD said:

In Rome when it rains it rains like it means it. Hence they get more rain overall, annually. We just get crap drizzle all the time. They get more thunderstorms. I'd much rather Rome's climate than London's

Yeah the big difference maker is the UK tends to get 1-3mm/per hour type rainfall that can go on for a good 6-12hrs without much of a break, Rome and other more subtropical style locations are capable of getting convective masses that drop 30-50mm+ in shorter time periods.

So we probably have fare more 'rainfall hours' than places like Rome, but our rain is generally much less intense so Rome still ends up wetter in terms of overall statistics, even if they are getting what feels like far less rain due to rainfall hours being lower.

[SunnyG]

Just now, In Absence of True Seasons said:

It's hyperbole, but not by much. In my area, there were several days in the month where the day max was 16c. One day it reached only 15c (the Saturday where it rained the entire day). 

I've been seeing had day maxes the last couple weeks that are not far off this. 14c, and I'm pretty sure Christmas day was 15c. 

Obviously the minimums will be colder

Yes it was obviously hyperbole (on purpose), but I recall a Saturday in July which I am sure wasn't much warmer than today. I don't see that much of a difference...

[Summer8906]

1 hour ago, Weather-history said:

The second half of 2023 has been largely terrible and that includes that September. It looks as though it has been the  wettest second half of a year since 1954 for our region.

Interesting, I would also class September as overrated though did miss much of it and relying on second-hand reports (dramatically hot and sunny 2nd-9th, otherwise so-so to wet). I still consider 1997 and 2003 as the ones to beat, due to their prolonged fine, sunny weather.

Wonder when the previous wettest 2nd half of the year was in the Hampshire area? Usual suspects such as 2000 and 2012 seemed to have more in the way of dry spells. Wasn't late 1960 exceedingly wet - like 2023 also featuring a hot, sunny June and then nothing but rain for months?

Edited January 2 by Summer8906

[CryoraptorA303]

9 minutes ago, Scorcher said:

It hasn't been that sunny at Heathrow either over the past few months- in fact December was duller than here at Heathrow. September was only slightly above the seasonal average for sunshine there and October and November around average. July and August were both considerably below average but less so than here.

I'm further SE than Heathrow.

[Summer8906]

12 minutes ago, LRD said:

In Rome when it rains it rains like it means it. Hence they get more rain overall, annually. We just get crap drizzle all the time. They get more thunderstorms. I'd much rather Rome's climate than London's

When you read of Mediterranean climates as a child, they always miss the thundery aspect. But the storms are certainly IMX dramatic, far more so than most UK storms.

[In Absence of True Seasons]

6 minutes ago, kold weather said:

 the UK tends to get 1-3mm/per hour type rainfall that can go on for a good 6-12hrs without much of a break

Indeed. Or 48-72 hours without much break if it's 2023...lol

[CryoraptorA303]

12 minutes ago, In Absence of True Seasons said:

It's hyperbole, but not by much. In my area, there were several days in the month where the day max was 16c. One day it reached only 15c (the Saturday where it rained the entire day). 

I've been seeing had day maxes the last couple weeks that are not far off this. 14c, and I'm pretty sure Christmas day was 15c. 

Obviously the minimums will be colder

Right, I forgot Kent missed much of the action