Winter 2012 / 2013

[Gavin Hannah]

Wouldn't bet on that - I'm sure I heard something back in 2010 that someone was being sued because after shoveling the snow off of the pavements, black ice formed and someone slipped on it.. I might be wrong about the details though

That sort of reaction to someone being kind enough to shovel snow beggars belief. I've slipped on black ice because no one gritted the pavement, you didn't see me suing the entire street.!

[Suburban Streamer]

Wouldn't bet on that - I'm sure I heard something back in 2010 that someone was being sued because after shoveling the snow off of the pavements, black ice formed and someone slipped on it.. I might be wrong about the details though

they do say that if u leave it untouched u are not liable, but if u pile it, then u are. but thankfully this is not america lol....not quite anyway!

[Snowstorm1]

Dont agree with shovelling snow personally as it causes more dangers i believe and ruins the scenery but if carried out correctly for those people who struggle to walk then fair enough

[Robbie Garrett]

I am starting to think if November/December 2010 and the years before that where just a curtain raiser with things to come. Lots of things starting to fall in place for this winter. November is not that far away.

[Robbie Garrett]

Wouldn't bet on that - I'm sure I heard something back in 2010 that someone was being sued because after shoveling the snow off of the pavements, black ice formed and someone slipped on it.. I might be wrong about the details though

My workplace that I was working at in February wouldn't allow us too for that specific reason.

[laserguy]

Good point that, in these cash strapped times couincils are likely to be less prepared rather than more prepared for harsh conditions.

Our council can't be bothered to fill up those yellow help-yourself grit bins on our very steep road at the best of times,let alone in times of snowpocalypse. They must have been suckered in by all that "global warming means no more UK snow" cobblers. Ah bless 'em,they weren't the only ones. Bloody well ought to know better by now,tho'.

[Aaron]

Dont agree with shovelling snow personally as it causes more dangers i believe and ruins the scenery but if carried out correctly for those people who struggle to walk then fair enough

What the council did was spread grit on the pavements on top of the 'compact' snow so the slipping risk was minimal. There are so many little things people or councils can do to avoid people slipping and hurting themselves, it isn't rocket science.

Edited September 19, 2012 by Aaron

[Bethany C]

I am starting to think if November/December 2010 and the years before that where just a curtain raiser with things to come. Lots of things starting to fall in place for this winter. November is not that far away.

It's far enough away for things to change. But enough of the ineptitude of councils for now ( I didn't think that comment would cause such a reaction!), we have models to watch and agonize over.

[Gavin Hannah]

Or drool over. . .

[johnholmes]

Wow! That frigid Bartlett Polar Cell would be a cold lovers dream just in mid-winter... but in November... incredible! Not even the classic November cold snaps of 1919 and 2010 produced 500mb heights THAT low over Europe.

now come on Craig stop mixing up low and high pressure

the term Bartlett is used about a specific area of high pressure NOT as you have used it.

The word Bartlett to all cold and snow lovers is pure poison!

the link with the explanation is below for those new to the forum and winter excitement

http://weatherfaqs.org.uk/node/117

Edited September 19, 2012 by johnholmes

[snowking]

I guess there are a also a lot of new or inexperienced drivers who haven't driven in really snowy conditions and either slide to a stop blocking the road or worse. From my own point of view, I make less progress in my modern electronically stabilised and assisted car than I did in my old Mini's 30 years ago!. I end up turning off traction control ESS etc and try to regain control of the car from the computers just to make sensible forward progress, as modern vehicles (non 4WD) seem to want to just bring you to a halt in anything other than perfect conditions.

You've absolutely hit the nail on the head there

Example case in December 2010. I was driving a 1.2 P reg ford fiesta. No ABS, primitive PAS. All you need to remember when driving in snow is to change gears as soon as possible (ie at as low a rev range as the engine will allow) and that for god sake when setting off use the bite if the clutch, not the accelerator. And further to this if you start wheel slipping don't just put your foot down, it just makes things worse! The rest are just common sense measures. Don't try overtaking, leave about 4 times as much distance as you would usually to brake, and brake gently, allow longer when setting off at traffic lights etc.

Anyway I was travelling back from Cheltenham to Stansted, there had been about 18" snow fallen over the Cotswolds. It took me around 9 hours, and those 9 hours there were only two times that almost resulted in collisions. The first was leaving Cheltenham, I was right on top of a set of lights patrolling a cross roads when they turned yellow, and even doing just 15mph, there was no way I would have been able to brake in time....unfortunately the driver released next by the lights on the left of the cross roads decided that she would set off as soon as the lights in her side turned amber, using the accelerator to set off ( in a rear wheel drive Audi I would add - bad move) and couldn't have missed me by more than 3 inches. The second time was on the A40, on a stretch of dual carriageway, when some stupid *$!?#%**....so and so....in a 4x4 decided they could overtake another 4x4 using the lane that hadn't been plowed. Needless to say they slipped sideways back towards the drivers side of my car and I ended up havning to take evasive action and pull into the hard shoulder.

Now I'm hardly the most experienced driver but before I set off in snow for the first time (a couple of years previous to this) I read up on the basics and exercised those.....most people are too arrogant to do so and I would suggest the majority of accidents in bad weather occur because of this

[syed2878]

wo this thread is really taking off 25 pages and we r only 20days in to september.

[Mark Neal.]

Wouldn't bet on that - I'm sure I heard something back in 2010 that someone was being sued because after shoveling the snow off of the pavements, black ice formed and someone slipped on it.. I might be wrong about the details though

I cleared our drive in January 2010 and some person living nearby stopped and warned me that the council may sue you, as if someone slips it would be your fault, seems stupid, but then it is the government these days!!

[Snow phall]

Snowking,not to be pedantic,but i don't think audi ever made a RWD model.

The thing about driving in snow is get a pair of snow tyres on your driven wheels,ideally all 4.

Unless the depth of snow makes your car bottom out,you will never get stuck,no matter what you are driving,Unless it's black or sheet ice.

What's the usual cars you see spinning their wheels and going sideways,it's bmw's and mercs because they have tarmac tyres with no grip in the snow.

Trust me,anyone who is nervous about getting stuck in snow,buy some snow/winter tyres and put them on before the first snow.

[beng]

http://twitter.com/B...7302784/photo/1

This tweet from Joe Bxstardi illustrates an analogue winter pattern based off the geomagnetic field. Looks very tasty but of course there's a few years in the analogue list that were pretty pants too. Just another hint though that this will be a blocked winter.

Edited September 19, 2012 by beng

[chiffer]

I used to live in Germany and if you didn't clear the pavement in front of your house you were liable to being sued, that made more sense to me.

[snowking]

Snowking,not to be pedantic,but i don't think audi ever made a RWD model.

The thing about driving in snow is get a pair of snow tyres on your driven wheels,ideally all 4.

Unless the depth of snow makes your car bottom out,you will never get stuck,no matter what you are driving,Unless it's black or sheet ice.

What's the usual cars you see spinning their wheels and going sideways,it's bmw's and mercs because they have tarmac tyres with no grip in the snow.

Trust me,anyone who is nervous about getting stuck in snow,buy some snow/winter tyres and put them on before the first snow.

Fair play, I had assumed it was rear wheel purely because the back wheels were slipping more than the front - perhaps 4 wheel drive with struggling more at the back?

I agree with snow tyres but I guess the issue for a lot people would be cost. It is perfectly possible, in my opinion, to drive in such conditions with regular tyres if you are willing to drive differently...though of course studs would help

Edited September 19, 2012 by snowking

[divadee]

I used to live in Germany and if you didn't clear the pavement in front of your house you were liable to being sued, that made more sense to me.

I was about to post the same thing. My in laws lived in Belgium for years and you had to clear the path in front of your house. It made perfect sense.

Edited September 19, 2012 by divadee

[Moomin71]

Snowking,not to be pedantic,but i don't think audi ever made a RWD model.

The thing about driving in snow is get a pair of snow tyres on your driven wheels,ideally all 4.

Unless the depth of snow makes your car bottom out,you will never get stuck,no matter what you are driving,Unless it's black or sheet ice.

What's the usual cars you see spinning their wheels and going sideways,it's bmw's and mercs because they have tarmac tyres with no grip in the snow.

Trust me,anyone who is nervous about getting stuck in snow,buy some snow/winter tyres and put them on before the first snow.

The big problem is that traction control on modern cars is too good/efficient, particularly the German ones, friend of mine has an E Class Merc and it wouldn't get off his drive when there was half an inch of snow. They don't allow any slippage before kicking in. the new Jags are better at it as they use a derivative of the landrover traction control which is designed to work in slippery conditions and allows partial loss of traction, the new jags allow the car to slide around abit to keep momentum for getting going in the snow. Incidentally this is also how modern freight locomtoves work, they have a sort of traction control which allows some slippage as the maximum tractive effort is acheived just as the wheels start to slip on the rails.

However, as I cannot afford a new Jag I will be using my ancient landrover and mark 2 jag, both of which are lots of fun in the snow. the answer for everyone else is to buy a Jag or switch off the traction control completely as mentioned in earlier posts. however, we seem to have drifted off topic somewhat.

I do hope we get a snowy winter after last years disappointment but I have to keep reminding myself that it is very early in the season still. Having said that there do seem to be a lot of encouraging signs, very much looking forward to the SSW thread renewing in a couple of weeks. I would be astonished if those Metociel charts verify and would worry that it is very early in the season if they did verify - peaking too soon?

M

[Gavin Hannah]

First snowman of the season????

https://twitter.com/NEWSLINEWEATHER/status/248107690855907328/photo/1

[Cheviot]

I have 2 experiences of driving in snow from recent years:

1. 22nd December 2009 when the Basinsgtoke area was blanked in 7 inches, unexpectedly. I was doing some Christmas shopping, parked outside on dry tarmac and went into the shopping mall. 2 hours later (I'm a slow shopper), I came out to find my car and all roads buried. Brilliant. I had to drive up the M3 to get home but it was no problem at all in my old Ford Ka. Almost all other vehicles slid off the roads - including big Range Rovers and Volvo XC90s. I was very proud of my little car, windscreen wipers nonchalently flicking snow in the faces of enormous 4x4s. No doubt, my skinny summer tyres and the light weight of the car gave me significant advantage over highly engineered behemoths.

see the following for news accounts of this event:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8425718.stm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/dec/22/snow-town-like-disaster-film

2. Another big snow event a couple of weeks later in my area (we had about 28cm lying with some accumulated spots up to 38cm. This time the only people trying to get out and about were 4x4s and me in my Ford Ka! I saw at least 3 Volvo XC90s abandoned, as they failed to get traction, but in my light car with skinny tyres it was no problem - just had to drive more carefully. No doubt the big cars weren't kitted out with winter tyres - you only have to go to the alps in the winter to see that the locals don't need 4x4 to live in snowy conditions - they just bung on some snow tyres (as legally obliged) and drive about in whatever cars they have.

Here's a news article about a village near to me, at the time:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/jan/06/snow-odiham-vicar-gary-keith

I think if I were to buy the ultimate car for a snowy winter, I woud:

1. Get some Winter tyres (the ones with the Christmas tree symbol on)

2. Get a light weight car

3. Get 4x4 on the car

the best car for this in recent years was the Fiat Punto 4x4. It could literally go places Land Rover fantantics can only dream about. As ther say in Italy, "Snow problem"

[Karl83]

http://twitter.com/B...7302784/photo/1

This tweet from Joe Bxstardi illustrates an analogue winter pattern based off the geomagnetic field. Looks very tasty but of course there's a few years in the analogue list that were pretty pants too. Just another hint though that this will be a blocked winter.

So what does this mean mate?

[snowfluff]

I guess there are a also a lot of new or inexperienced drivers who haven't driven in really snowy conditions and either slide to a stop blocking the road or worse. From my own point of view, I make less progress in my modern electronically stabilised and assisted car than I did in my old Mini's 30 years ago!. I end up turning off traction control ESS etc and try to regain control of the car from the computers just to make sensible forward progress, as modern vehicles (non 4WD) seem to want to just bring you to a halt in anything other than perfect conditions.

Yes i agree wrt drivers etc,as others have said though, you can be sued if someone slips on your pile of snow , its got to the point now where schools close because of 1 inch of snow,just incase a child slips on the schools snow? or outside the school gates?

[Andy_]

Well this will be my first winter driving a car, wish me luck!

I drive a Renault Clio, which only advantage is probably being quite light and having FWD.. Think its just a case of being careful, accelerating and braking slowly and trying to use higher gears where possible (I do this anyways to save petrol) - or i'll just walk if i can't get it out of my street

Edited September 19, 2012 by Andy163

[cheeky_monkey]

Here in Canada you have to clear the pavements outside your house or you are fined..they also have dedicated snow routes on roads where no parking is allowed during the winter months. Schools never shut and you must play outside unless the temperature falls below -23c then you are allowed indoors...I have an AWD SUV..its more of a crossover..its a Ford Edge which Ford does not sell in the UK..I dont put winter tyres on my car as i find them an unnecessary expense..its much more challenging driving in snow in the UK than it ever is in Canada!!