Scotland - Regional Discussion - New Year

[aggy]

think i have just refoc tornado over prestwick no joke . Waitin on other eye witness reports

[penicuikblizz]

Don't know about Waverley mate, because Jimmy Chungs roof was blown into the station!!! Haymarket is now running trains.

[LomondSnowstorm]

think i have just refoc tornado over prestwick no joke . Waitin on other eye witness reports

That would be a very interesting development. Waterspouts aren't unknown in the UK - there's fairly strong evidence to suggest waterspouts were responsible for the Tay Bridge disaster ( http://www.torro.org.uk/site/whirlwind_info.php ). The NMM suggests quite a bit of instability around off the west coast so it's not inconceivable by any means.

[aggy]

it was inland and a funnel kinda brown im colour moving east. Thought it could be rain but the colour was totally difrent to the cloud . Still waiting to see if any one else saw anything

[A Winter's Tale]

think i have just refoc tornado over prestwick no joke . Waitin on other eye witness reports

Not sure I've ever heard of tornado report in the Kilted Thread!

Here could be another link to add to our essential links! http://www.torro.org.uk/site/index.php

it was inland and a funnel kinda brown im colour moving east. Thought it could be rain but the colour was totally difrent to the cloud . Still waiting to see if any one else saw anything

What time did you observe this aggy?

Edited January 3, 2012 by A Winter's Tale

[aggy]

about 30 mins ago

[A Winter's Tale]

Looking at the radar - there was quite an intense area of showers heading SE - http://www.raintoday.co.uk/

Now, with low pressure, an incredible transition from mild to cold, possible wintryness and convection over the warm Firth of Clyde mixed with intense showers and cold air then some tornadic conditions may be possible!

So it was brown. Was it conical shaped, thin or thick and a contrast to the sky? How long did it last?

To me, I actually do believe that you've see a tornado! Have you seen one in the area before?

[A Winter's Tale]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-16392381

Some amazing pictures here!

The last one by Kym Wallace of the roof of Glasgow flats landing on a house is amazing. The huge containers being blown over in Greenock by Dan Murray is incredible too!

What a storm.

[Snooz]

Hope you are all well.. sounds like you've caught a sting indeed.. it was fairly calm here at least in comparison to the pics posted here, it was flat clam until about 10:30am then horrendous (30-50mph gusts) within another half hour, with horizontal sleet/rain/snow. The hills have another white dusting. Can't believe these incredible winds this winter.. lets hope, if the conveyor is to keep going, that it doesn't get much worse!

I've been fairly quiet this year, but am reading and looking at your pics.. did I mention wind is my least favourite weather..

OH and Happy New Year btw

[BleakMidwinter]

That's Edinburgh Waverley and Haymarket stations re-opening at 3pm, for some train routes (including over to Fife yippee!)

That's Edinburgh Waverley and Haymarket stations re-opening at 3pm, for some train routes (including over to Fife yippee!)

No they flaming well are not. Just got lift up to the station, dropped off only to find station closed, no trains running, Bridge still closed, no idea why the website STILL says trains restarting after 1500.

DO NOT TRUST THE WEBSITE FOR TRAIN INFO!!!!

seriously hacked off

[shuggee]

"Narrowly" rather than "easily" might be a better choice of words. Let's not forget Shetland had a 100mph(+?) "hurricane" last week :winky:

But definately worth investigating.

Shame on me - well said windsock

It's an intriguing question. Here's are the last 4 NAE runs

http://expert-images...010309_0212.gif

http://expert-images...010309_0218.gif

http://expert-images...010309_0300.gif

http://expert-images...010309_0306.gif

The low was predicted to be centred around Inverness. In reality its centre was a few miles south of that, but still not hugely different. The centre of the low was always progged at around 955-960mb, so that didn't throw us. There are two key differences I can see between earlier runs and the final outcome:

1) the size of the centre of the low turned out to be far more pronounced than initially predicted. This created a tighter pressure gradient across central Scotland that was responsible for the winds.

2) the wind direction was initially progged to be northwesterly for central areas but the low became more elongated to the northeast, allowing the wind to be funnelled through the central belt.

I think ultimately we have to look at the 'sting jet' phenomenon as an explanation, certainly the much tighter than predicted pressure gradient suggests this was a probable explanation.

Yes - been reading about sting jets today. Certainly makes sense, but wonder why it wasn't spotted. Looking forward to Reporting Scotland at 6.30 and Newsnicht tonight, I'm sure there will be a forensic dissection.

[Ross B]

Well... that was awesome!!! I thought the windows were going to cave in this morning!

Fortunately managed to get up and ready for work before the power went out - it's been out all day. Trees & signs littered everywhere, the only time I've seen this much damage was from Storm chasing in the states this year... although that was of course much worse.

Apparently we have had a snow shower here earlier in the day so here is hoping for some more tonight before the next batch of rain and wind arrives tonight.

[Northernlights]

Seriously wet here now fields are covered in ponds but at least it is now dry above and has been around 2c all day with a strong windchill.Told young Mr. Northernlights we could start using straw from the sheds instead of from the field as even round bales eventually get the first 6 inches soaked.He thought this was great as they are lighter to push and smell of the harvest when opened and the cattle are very comfortable looking tonight.Usually the inside straw is kept for snowy weather but that has not been so common this winter so far so thought we could use some until it either drys up a bit or we get some frosty weather and can start using the field ones again.

However Arora Storm is most miffed with Scotrail and no trains to Edinburgh today. She has been told by Inverness they will honour her ticket for the same train tomorrow which was bought months ago at a lower cost so now she is just gently simmering!!!!!

[BleakMidwinter]

Seriously wet here now fields are covered in ponds but at least it is now dry above and has been around 2c all day with a strong windchill.Told young Mr. Northernlights we could start using straw from the sheds instead of from the field as even round bales eventually get the first 6 inches soaked.He thought this was great as they are lighter to push and smell of the harvest when opened and the cattle are very comfortable looking tonight.Usually the inside straw is kept for snowy weather but that has not been so common this winter so far so thought we could use some until it either drys up a bit or we get some frosty weather and can start using the field ones again.

However Arora Storm is most miffed with Scotrail and no trains to Edinburgh today. She has been told by Inverness they will honour her ticket for the same train tomorrow which was bought months ago at a lower cost so now she is just gently simmering!!!!!

Yeah well tell Aurora Storm at least she didn't make the journey to the station all full of expectation and hope because the flaming rotten website showed trains had started running, only to find said station totally closed and shut, grrrrr.

What's that? Still bitter and narked? Moi? You betcha...

[howham]

Wow, I just saw the photos on bbc news website. You guys in the central belt have certainly copped the worst of the winds over the last few months (Shetland excepted). Breezy and blustery enough here but nothing too bad. Had some sleet earlier.

[NorthernRab]

A fairly calm day in Inverness, no wind at all really!

[shuggee]

Yeah well tell Aurora Storm at least she didn't make the journey to the station all full of expectation and hope because the flaming rotten website showed trains had started running, only to find said station totally closed and shut, grrrrr.

What's that? Still bitter and narked? Moi? You betcha...

Here's the latest re Waverley station from a rail enthusiast forum I follow BM:

contractors and NR carrying out safety checks of the station before any decision is made to re-open. roofing/glass panals had fallen in on platform 17 & 12, but thats from the stations own roof.

[Hairy Celt]

Just cold & wet here - there was some snow mid-morning when it got a bit breezy for a while but that was it really. As NL says, the fields are sodden with ponds & puddles everywhere, culverts full, ditches and drains overflowing and quite a mess. Again.

Looking at the photos on the BBC link from SS, it's a wonder nobody's been killed. Lets hope it stays that way.

[BleakMidwinter]

Here's the latest re Waverley station from a rail enthusiast forum I follow BM:

I did wonder about the glass roof, shuggee! Thanks for the information.

RadioScotland has jsut announced Edin Waverley is open... and nationalrail-co-uk still shows tons of services "on time", in amongst some "delayed" and some "cancelled" as it has done for three hours now despite the station being completely closed throughout that time...

[LomondSnowstorm]

Shame on me - well said windsock

Yes - been reading about sting jets today. Certainly makes sense, but wonder why it wasn't spotted. Looking forward to Reporting Scotland at 6.30 and Newsnicht tonight, I'm sure there will be a forensic dissection.

http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/abs/10.1175/2010MWR3290.1

The abstract of quite a recent paper (unfortunately its contents locked away from joe punter) which seems to suggest that even the most advanced mesoscale models are unable in their operational form to deal with sting jets properly. Note to SS: it also features your favourite term, 'evaporative cooling'!

I'm not entirely sure why the met office were unable to spot it though as it was their own unified model that is credited with being able to model this phenomenon. I think Lorenzo picked up on its possibility last night but I'd only heard of it in passing before today.

[NUT]

Amazing really the complete contrasts compared to the start of last winter and this one. Can't remember it being this stormy in such a long long time

[Norrance]

Calmed down here. 3.5C and cloudy. Missed the worst of it here though there is a bit of debris about. Been googling sting jets too this afternoon. Makes sense especially with the sudden drops in pressure and temp contrasts.

Also looked at squall lines such as moved South through England today.

Can't say it hasn't been an interesting spell of weather this Winter so far? Could do with some decent and lasting snowfall at some point though to round it off.

Just hope that the high due to build over the UK [south]? doesn't just sit there with the jet going over the top then eventually sinking again.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Norrance

[Guest]

The Met-O are inventing new airports in Scotland:

91mph Glasgow, Bishopton Airport

I'm saying nothing...for now.

[BleakMidwinter]

Right - definitive travel news: Edinburgh Waverley is now partially open with many cancellations. the train to Bristol has just left, a bit delayed and that's the first one out all day.

I know this 'cause my Dad drove there out of maddened frustration (grew up in a "railway family") and just phoned me from inside the station.

God, nationalrail couldn't run a social event in a brewery...

[Scottish-Irish Skier]

http://journals.amet...5/2010MWR3290.1

The abstract of quite a recent paper (unfortunately its contents locked away from joe punter) which seems to suggest that even the most advanced mesoscale models are unable in their operational form to deal with sting jets properly. Note to SS: it also features your favourite term, 'evaporative cooling'!

I'm not entirely sure why the met office were unable to spot it though as it was their own unified model that is credited with being able to model this phenomenon. I think Lorenzo picked up on its possibility last night but I'd only heard of it in passing before today.

Evaporative cooling is real; it involves evaporation (endothermic) cooling the source of what is evaporating. For example, if dry (unsaturated with water vapour) air passes over water, water will evaporate to try to saturate the air and reach liquid water - water vapour equilibrium at that P/T. As the evaporation occurs, it drags heat from the source water, cooling it.

For me, it does not work for heavy snow/rain/sleet 'lantent cooling' as how could evaporation be occuring below the dew (condensation) point with the air completely saturated with water, so saturated its pouring down!

EDIT. Best example when thinking of evaporative cooling is if you pour something volatile on your hand (e.g. pure alcohol, lighter fluid petrol); as it evaporates rapidly, you will feel it as cold as it sucks heat from your hand while evaporating.

The Met-O are inventing new airports in Scotland:

I'm saying nothing...for now.

Maybe there were a lot of things 'taking off' from that area earlier today?

Edited January 3, 2012 by scottish skier