General summer chat

[raz.org.rain]

50 minutes ago, CryoraptorA303 said:

2013/14 and 2014/15 were neutral winters. 2015/16 and 2018/19 are the two latest El Nino winters in recent memory.

El Niño winters have a habit of leading onto great summers too for the most part 

[CryoraptorA303]

7 minutes ago, raz.org.rain said:

El Niño winters have a habit of leading onto great summers too for the most part 

Indeed. It will be interesting to see how quickly this El Nino retrogrades to La Nina, if it does, and how it affects next summer. 1994/95 was a weak El Nino that retrograded to La Nina conditions fairly quickly. I'm not sure if I entirely buy the fast retrogression to La Nina in the forecast just yet, considering how uncommon it is for very strong to Super El Ninos to retrograde in the same year, but 2015/16 did retrograde to a very weak La Nina by JAS before a stronger La Nina took hold later in 2017 so we'll see. Having said that, this El Nino is the strongest since 2015/16, and before that 1997/98. This is also the first El Nino cycle after a triple Nina since 2002/03, and after that El Nino ENSO went into somewhat of a hiatus, and this seems to have happened after every post-triple Nina El Nino, so I'd be more inclined to follow the historical analogue and suggest we won't see La Nina for a few years now, but again, we shall see.

Edited January 5 by CryoraptorA303

[SollyOlly]

6 minutes ago, raz.org.rain said:

El Niño winters have a habit of leading onto great summers too for the most part 

A "great summer" for me would be cool and sunny...no doubt we'll get bonkers heat and humidity again though, as per usual. That's why I don't begrudge those who chase winter...it's so rare these days.

[East Lancs Rain]

2 hours ago, CryoraptorA303 said:

2013/14 and 2014/15 were neutral winters. 2015/16 and 2018/19 are the two latest El Nino winters in recent memory.

Two of my favourite winters, especially winter 2018/19. Despite winter 15/16 being very mild and wet overall here, I actually had a bit of snow in January. 

On 04/01/2024 at 13:49, In Absence of True Seasons said:

The Baltics and the British Isles have rather different climates tbh. We are at the mercy of the jet stream which means we often get milder, cloudier and wetter weather (both summer and winter) whereas the likes of Estonia and Latvia and even South Finland get cold, snowy and sunnier winters but also sunnier and drier summers.

Outside of the extreme situations like the one you're currently in with -20c temps that prevent you from doing basically anything, your climate is far preferable to ours, imo

Personally, I’d prefer Britains warmer winters and cooler summers but with Estonias sunnier and drier conditions. Although such a climate that is a mild but also dry and sunny is hard to come by, although the west coast of California is like this. Mild, wet winters, but sunnier and milder than ours, and with pleasant summers with average highs ranging from high teens to mid 20’s, with plenty of sunshine and barely any rain. Somewhere like San Francisco would be the ideal climate for me, mild year round with temps in the low teens in winter and in the low 20’s in summer, and much sunnier than UK. This kind of climate is achieved (sunny but relatively cool) be being quite a long way south but moderated by a cold ocean current, hence the significantly cooler and more temperate summers than you would normally find at that latitude. We are much further north, although we are moderated by a warm ocean current, which helps to warm up the climate, especially in the winter and at night, winters are much milder than you would normally expect at this latitude - but this comes at a cost of a lot of cloud and rain. It would be interesting to see what would happen to the UK’s climate if the Gulf Stream shut down or the zonal flow changed from westerly to easterly.

That said, although London may seem to have quite a maritime climate compared to many places in Europe, it is actually has one of the most continental climates in the country - ranging from an average high of around 8C in January to 24C in July, is around a 16C difference between the warmest and coldest month. In comparison, Penzance ranges from around 10C in January to just 19C in July, only a 9C difference, and it’s also much wetter and windier than London. Stornaway is around 8C in winter but only around 16C in summer. And it is much cloudier, wetter and windier… Ireland is also even more Atlantic dominated than England, with generally even milder, wetter, windier and cloudier winters and even cooler, wetter, windier and cloudier summers. So any Londoner who thinks the climate is too maritime should be thankful they don’t live further west in somewhere like Penzance or Stornaway! 
 

Up here, the summers are even cooler, wetter and cloudier than in London!

 

 

 

[CryoraptorA303]

5 hours ago, East Lancs Rain said:

That said, although London may seem to have quite a maritime climate compared to many places in Europe, it is actually has one of the most continental climates in the country - ranging from an average high of around 8C in January to 24C in July, is around a 16C difference between the warmest and coldest month. In comparison, Penzance ranges from around 10C in January to just 19C in July, only a 9C difference, and it’s also much wetter and windier than London. Stornaway is around 8C in winter but only around 16C in summer. And it is much cloudier, wetter and windier… Ireland is also even more Atlantic dominated than England, with generally even milder, wetter, windier and cloudier winters and even cooler, wetter, windier and cloudier summers. So any Londoner who thinks the climate is too maritime should be thankful they don’t live further west in somewhere like Penzance or Stornaway! 

East Anglia is even more continental than that. Some places up in Essex and Suffolk range from a January high of barely 7C and low of 1C to a July high rivalling London's. They're drier as well.

5 hours ago, East Lancs Rain said:

Up here, the summers are even cooler, wetter and cloudier than in London!

Bit of a misconception owing to stereotypes as much of the south and east of England has warm summers and is overall quite a dry area of the world. I think the daily high of the warmest month has to be below 20C for it to technically be a "cool summer" climate. Warmies who think anything below 25C is cool thankfully did not write climate classifications.

I also wouldn't think somewhere that has reached 40C and regularly reaches well over 30C is a "cool summer" climate. Many areas with an actual cool summer climate have record highs in the low 30Cs.

Edited January 6 by CryoraptorA303

[In Absence of True Seasons]

10 hours ago, East Lancs Rain said:

Two of my favourite winters, especially winter 2018/19. Despite winter 15/16 being very mild and wet overall here, I actually had a bit of snow in January. 

Personally, I’d prefer Britains warmer winters and cooler summers but with Estonias sunnier and drier conditions. Although such a climate that is a mild but also dry and sunny is hard to come by, although the west coast of California is like this. Mild, wet winters, but sunnier and milder than ours, and with pleasant summers with average highs ranging from high teens to mid 20’s, with plenty of sunshine and barely any rain. Somewhere like San Francisco would be the ideal climate for me, mild year round with temps in the low teens in winter and in the low 20’s in summer, and much sunnier than UK. This kind of climate is achieved (sunny but relatively cool) be being quite a long way south but moderated by a cold ocean current, hence the significantly cooler and more temperate summers than you would normally find at that latitude. We are much further north, although we are moderated by a warm ocean current, which helps to warm up the climate, especially in the winter and at night, winters are much milder than you would normally expect at this latitude - but this comes at a cost of a lot of cloud and rain. It would be interesting to see what would happen to the UK’s climate if the Gulf Stream shut down or the zonal flow changed from westerly to easterly.

That said, although London may seem to have quite a maritime climate compared to many places in Europe, it is actually has one of the most continental climates in the country - ranging from an average high of around 8C in January to 24C in July, is around a 16C difference between the warmest and coldest month. In comparison, Penzance ranges from around 10C in January to just 19C in July, only a 9C difference, and it’s also much wetter and windier than London. Stornaway is around 8C in winter but only around 16C in summer. And it is much cloudier, wetter and windier… Ireland is also even more Atlantic dominated than England, with generally even milder, wetter, windier and cloudier winters and even cooler, wetter, windier and cloudier summers. So any Londoner who thinks the climate is too maritime should be thankful they don’t live further west in somewhere like Penzance or Stornaway! 
 

Up here, the summers are even cooler, wetter and cloudier than in London!

 

 

 

Yes, London does have one of the least "maritime" climates within Britain. But small mercies, and scraping the bottom of the barrel as it were. 

If you're used to very mouldy fruit, slightly mouldy fruit will be fantastic by comparison. Regardless, the fruit isn't great in either case...

In regards to cool summer, I think there's a degree of subjectivity to this in terms of what one constitutes as cool. 22c in Summer to me is a pleasantly warm day, but nowhere near hot and definitely requires some sort of layer for the morning and nighttime. But as the Heat Haters thread in summer shows, there are people who find 22c to be the upper-end of their tolerance for warm weather and anything more than that basically unbearable. 24-26c is probably the "optimum" upper range for the average person's warmth/heat preference, which makes sense as this coincides with the sort of climate that we'd have been able to survive in as a species prior to any sort of development (e.g. wearing clothes, building shelter, etc). 

Cloud cover is also an extremely important factor for Summer, just as much if not moreso than temperature imo. 20-22c in June with a clear sky feels completely different to 24-27c with an overcast sky, and I'd take the former every time. 

I actually don't dislike SE England's climate outside of the dullness. Aside from outlier years like 2023, rainfall in London isn't actually as bad as the stereotypes, and as you say, summer is generally pretty warm, and Spring can bring great conditions too. But the lack of average annual sunshine hours are the primary issue. Alongside any real wintry weather most years. London is about 20% less sunny than the USA's dullest city, Seattle, which I've heard many Americans bemoan as a very miserable place to live because it's so cloudy. Perhaps they should check Stornoway's climate and be thankful for Seattle haha. 

If the Gulf Stream shut down, would we not end up having a climate similar to North American locations on a similar latitude to us? Like Montreal? 

Edited January 6 by In Absence of True Seasons

[In Absence of True Seasons]

1 hour ago, SunSean said:

I think South West Ireland have become the new South East England. Sunnier than just about everywhere else now for well over a month and counting. I've been looking at the satellite quite a bit and even on the cloudiest days, they are the only place with at least some sunshine and the cloud seems to evaporate around that region as though it is running into a forcefield. Do they have a cloud-buster device recently set up there or something? Lol.

They also had fantastic sunny weather in Spring and early Summer 2023 whilst the entire SE England was stuck under that clag and cold breeze for weeks.

Cloud-busting tech from the EU (by way of China). Opposes the cloud-seeding tech that the Tories employ in England to keep us plebs deflated and disenthused

[East Lancs Rain]

2 hours ago, In Absence of True Seasons said:

Yes, London does have one of the least "maritime" climates within Britain. But small mercies, and scraping the bottom of the barrel as it were. 

If you're used to very mouldy fruit, slightly mouldy fruit will be fantastic by comparison. Regardless, the fruit isn't great in either case...

In regards to cool summer, I think there's a degree of subjectivity to this in terms of what one constitutes as cool. 22c in Summer to me is a pleasantly warm day, but nowhere near hot and definitely requires some sort of layer for the morning and nighttime. But as the Heat Haters thread in summer shows, there are people who find 22c to be the upper-end of their tolerance for warm weather and anything more than that basically unbearable. 24-26c is probably the "optimum" upper range for the average person's warmth/heat preference, which makes sense as this coincides with the sort of climate that we'd have been able to survive in as a species prior to any sort of development (e.g. wearing clothes, building shelter, etc). 

Cloud cover is also an extremely important factor for Summer, just as much if not moreso than temperature imo. 20-22c in June with a clear sky feels completely different to 24-27c with an overcast sky, and I'd take the former every time. 

I actually don't dislike SE England's climate outside of the dullness. Aside from outlier years like 2023, rainfall in London isn't actually as bad as the stereotypes, and as you say, summer is generally pretty warm, and Spring can bring great conditions too. But the lack of average annual sunshine hours are the primary issue. Alongside any real wintry weather most years. London is about 20% less sunny than the USA's dullest city, Seattle, which I've heard many Americans bemoan as a very miserable place to live because it's so cloudy. Perhaps they should check Stornoway's climate and be thankful for Seattle haha. 

If the Gulf Stream shut down, would we not end up having a climate similar to North American locations on a similar latitude to us? Like Montreal? 

For me, I’d consider 22°C to be pleasantly warm too, and it can feel very warm in the sunshine. I agree cloud cover is important, I’d probably take 18°C and sunny over 23°C and cloud. But would probably take 23°C and sunny over 18°C and cloud, even if it feels a bit hot. I’d certainly take 20-22°C and sun over and 24-27°C and cloud, but would probably take 20-22°C and cloud over 24°C-27°C and sun, given I don’t like the heat that much. Of course, I’m used to Lancashires climate, so I’m used to cooler, cloudier and wetter conditions all year round, but esspecially in summer, when there’s around a 4°C difference between daytime maximum temperatures here and in London. If I moved down to London, I would probably develop a higher tolerance for high temperatures but have less tolerance for poor conditions (below 20C and cloudy/raining) in summer. 
 

Up here, summer is much worse than London (worse being subjective of course as some people dislike and warm sunny weather and prefer cool and cloudy weather), with around 5 hours of sunshine a day, around 80-100 mm per month and an average high of around 18°C in June, 20°C in July and 19°C in August. I find the temperatures quite comfortable, but the summers are too cloudy and wet for my liking. In fact, it’s usually very cloudy and very wet most months here, apart from April - June which is usually drier and sunnier.

 

If I moved to London, I’d enjoy the extra sun and dryness, but I’d probably find the average summer maxima of 23°C/24°C a bit high, as there are regular spells of 27-33°C in London in summer. My ideal summer maxima is around 18-22°C. I’d enjoy the cooler Atlantic spells but I wouldn’t like the heatwaves, especially if I lived in a well insulated warm building, as a lot of houses and flats in London are. I would probably get frustrated with the summers in London as most of the time  Id  have to choose between temps of 21/22°C and cloud/rain, or temps of 26°C/27°C and full sun, rarely having the ideal conditions (for me) of sunshine and low 20’s (and with the warming climate it would only get worse) whereas further north, we usually have quite a lot of partly cloudy/mostly sunny days in the high teens and low 20’s, which I find more comfortable. I think ideally, the best climate in the UK for me would be somewhere on the south coast, or in Devon or Cornwall. Somewhere that is still sunny (by UK standards) but has cooler summer máxima around 19-22°C, and still fairly dry (although Cornwall is quite wet). The east coast (anywhere from Newcastle to East Anglia) would also be ideal.

 

Ive heard southerners moan on here before about their summers - it’s either cloudy, raining, or it’s too hot. And of course in winter, it’s the reverse, it’s usually either cloudy, raining, or it’s too cold… We’re never happy. Maybe we just like to moan too much about the weather in this country, but one advantage of a Northern England or Scottish Summer over a Southern one (especially SE England) is that we get more days that are sunny without being too hot, so when the weather is nice, you can enjoy it more. And when it rains, the temperature nearly always drops below 20°C, so you rarely have that problem of it being wet but too warm to wear even a lightweight waterproof jacket. When we get a heatwave, the south east swelters, whereas up in the north, it’s usually more comfortable while still having sunny weather. Maybe I’m just scraping the barrel trying to find something good about Northern Englands summer weather…

 

Although even up here, I’ve often moaned because we’ve had a heatwave with temps persistently in the high 20’s, then it breaks down and we go into the other extreme - a cool, cloudy and wet Atlantic spell, and the temp doesn’t get above 20°C for weeks, and I am bombarded with cloud and rain, and I moan again… Neither extreme is good or useable for me. Summer 2019 and 2020 was like this, short bursts of intense heat followed by weeks of miserable weather - so annoying. Whereas NE England tends to be cooler during a heatwave but gets less cloud and rain during an Atlantic spell, so I often envy thier climate in summer, as they tend to get more pleasant days that aren’t too hot. I often envy the east coast during a heatwave and London during an unsettled Atlantic spell - as they both tend have the ideal weather and temperatures in each scenario. Anyway, enough moaning from me. Hopefully next summer is one that is high pressure dominated but with the air coming from the NÉ or NW, giving pleasant weather but with comfortable temperatures - no heat spikes and no prolonged unsettled spells - but it will probably will be a week of 30°C and sunshine and then 11 weeks of 15-19°C, cloud and rain, as typical in our modern summers. 

The ideal conditions of dry, mostly sunny conditions and temps of 20-23°C don’t seem to happen in our summers as much now - it’s either blowtorch heat or an Atlantic onslaught - rarely do we seem to get a happy medium - although Summer 2021 was like that here, with a lot of fine, quiet weather with temps in the high teens and low 20’s. It was a nice change after the bipolar summers 

 

And our winters aren’t ideal either. They’re in that frustrating range of being too mild for regular snowfall but nowhere near mild enough to actually feel pleasant. The worst of both worlds. They’re also very cloudy and wet, especially here in NW England. We tend to miss out on the snow in Scotland but we also tend to miss out on a lot of the really mild, springlike days the south gets. So winter here is mostly just 5-8°C, gloomy skies, and… rain. 
 

The best time of year here is mid April to late June, when the Atlantic is usually dormant and we get more easterlies and northeasterlies which bring much sunnier, drier conditions here. July and August is usually mostly cloudy and wet, with occasional heat spikes, September is often nice, then October - December is usually an Atlantic onslaught with tons of wind and rain. January and February usually still wet but a bit colder. So April, May, June and September are really the only good months of the year here, no wonder I moan so much!

In other news, the sky has gone an usual blue colour, there’s a strange dazzling bright ball in the sky and the grass and roofs have gone a strange colour…

 

[raz.org.rain]

24 minutes ago, East Lancs Rain said:

It hasn’t even got cold yet, lol! 

Maybe a move up to NE would be a good compromise. The sunshine and rainfall levels are similar to London, thanks to some protection from the Atlantic from the Pennines, it’s just a few degrees cooler.. And you’d be closer to the Lakes and the peaks.

Interesting. I’d like the higher pressure and drier weather, and maybe the warmer summers (as long as it didn’t become too hot) but I don’t think I’d be too fond of the colder winters... But at least we’d get more snow. It would probably be worth it though for the nicer springs and autumns and the warmer, drier summers.

Yeah I don’t think Londons climate is too bad - I would prefer it a bit sunnier and with summers a bit cooler though. Maybe a bit milder winter too... Average max of 10C in January and 22C in July with around 2000 hours of sunshine a year would make it a great climate for me. 
 

I think if the Gulf Stream shut down we’d probably end up with a climate like Newfoundland, like in the chart below.

 

Newfoundland climate: weather by month, temperature, rain - Climates to Travel

WWW.CLIMATESTOTRAVEL.COM

---

Climate information for Newfoundland (Canada) - weather averages in Celsius and Fahrenheit. With tips on the best time to visit.

 

On paper, summers would get very hot and dry. There'd be basically nothing to hinder the northward progression of continental atmospheric blocking, so the heat domes that have become such a feature over the past decade would become standard fare for the summer months. I would argue that the main contribution of the AMOC to mid latitude climates is increased precipitation, that's why winter temperatures remain so relatively mild, but it also acts as a cooling factor during the summer months. Hence why northwestern Europe has a reputation for being so persistently damp and lacking temperature extremes, the Atlantic plays such a massive role in the local climate and is aided by the ocean current factor. Remove those factors and maritime Europe would be significantly more continental and a lot drier, I'd assume it would resemble a drier Oregon. There's also a significant southerly bias to our climate, Iberian highs would play a much larger role.

To be honest, I'd go as far as suggesting that Hadley cell dynamics would continue to grow, purely due to the excess energy added to the atmosphere due to human activity.

Also, it very much would not resemble Newfoundland's climate. Their climate is influenced by a very different set of characteristics. They have a huge isolated and freezing cold lake to the north, as well as Greenland. They're on the east coast of North America, so they're at the mercy of the cooling effect of westerlies. The physics of the Canadian Shield also contributes massively to their climate, which is abnormally cool for the latitude. Their continental mass is pretty much entirely to their north, so continentality will favour cooler weather year round.

Edited January 6 by raz.org.rain

[TwisterGirl81]

7 hours ago, In Absence of True Seasons said:

Yes, London does have one of the least "maritime" climates within Britain. But small mercies, and scraping the bottom of the barrel as it were. 

If you're used to very mouldy fruit, slightly mouldy fruit will be fantastic by comparison. Regardless, the fruit isn't great in either case...

In regards to cool summer, I think there's a degree of subjectivity to this in terms of what one constitutes as cool. 22c in Summer to me is a pleasantly warm day, but nowhere near hot and definitely requires some sort of layer for the morning and nighttime. But as the Heat Haters thread in summer shows, there are people who find 22c to be the upper-end of their tolerance for warm weather and anything more than that basically unbearable. 24-26c is probably the "optimum" upper range for the average person's warmth/heat preference, which makes sense as this coincides with the sort of climate that we'd have been able to survive in as a species prior to any sort of development (e.g. wearing clothes, building shelter, etc). 

Cloud cover is also an extremely important factor for Summer, just as much if not moreso than temperature imo. 20-22c in June with a clear sky feels completely different to 24-27c with an overcast sky, and I'd take the former every time. 

I actually don't dislike SE England's climate outside of the dullness. Aside from outlier years like 2023, rainfall in London isn't actually as bad as the stereotypes, and as you say, summer is generally pretty warm, and Spring can bring great conditions too. But the lack of average annual sunshine hours are the primary issue. Alongside any real wintry weather most years. London is about 20% less sunny than the USA's dullest city, Seattle, which I've heard many Americans bemoan as a very miserable place to live because it's so cloudy. Perhaps they should check Stornoway's climate and be thankful for Seattle haha. 

If the Gulf Stream shut down, would we not end up having a climate similar to North American locations on a similar latitude to us? Like Montreal? 

22c is a minimum temperature I’d expect during the summer months and that’s below average  in the south east.

24c Is what I would say is comfortable warmth 

What a lovely sunny day today, hopefully many more this month to come..Boost our sunshine hours and get off to a positive start baring in mind how the last 4 months have been ️ 

Edited January 6 by TwisterGirl81

[raz.org.rain]

6 minutes ago, TwisterGirl81 said:

22c is a minimum temperature I’d expect during the summer months and that’s below average  in the south east.

24c Is what I would say is comfortable warmth 

What a lovely sunny day today, hopefully many more this month to come..Boost our sunshine hours and get off to a positive start baring in mind how the last 4 months have been ️ 

18°-22°c would be a relatively cool summer day to me. Mid-twenties is nearer to what I'd expect as average. Frequent high 20s and low 30s is what I'd expect. Mid to high 30s is a pleasant treat.

[Joe Snow]

1 minute ago, raz.org.rain said:

18°-22°c would be a relatively cool summer day to me. Mid-twenties is nearer to what I'd expect as average. Frequent high 20s and low 30s is what I'd expect. Mid to high 30s is a pleasant treat.

In London & the SE maybe. 21-22c is the Manchester July average. High 20s being a hot summers day. 

[Metwatch]

Nice to see the sunshine this afternoon, perhaps more tomorrow then Tuesday / Wednesday, most welcome!

 

33 minutes ago, raz.org.rain said:

18°-22°c would be a relatively cool summer day to me. Mid-twenties is nearer to what I'd expect as average. Frequent high 20s and low 30s is what I'd expect. Mid to high 30s is a pleasant treat.

 

30 minutes ago, Joe Snow said:

In London & the SE maybe. 21-22c is the Manchester July average. High 20s being a hot summers day. 

It's all relative. Those who live in interior southern Spain, low 30s would be classed as a cool day in summer. Meanwhile 26C in Reykjavík would be record breaking and those living there might even say it's "hot."

[In Absence of True Seasons]

46 minutes ago, Joe Snow said:

In London & the SE maybe. 21-22c is the Manchester July average. High 20s being a hot summers day. 

Yeah. This is purely from a UK perspective though. As in, whilst 21c is a regular 'warm' summer day in Manchester, its a cool summer's day for most people across the world, as most countries have summer maxes that surpass Britain's. 

However, I think there's a sort of "average" that applies to most humans in terms of what we feel as genuinely warm, irrespective of what's a warm day for the country in question from a statistics perspective. I'd say this around 24/25c. 30c+ is hot. 

[Metwatch]

19 minutes ago, raz.org.rain said:

Actually this might be the best place to ask this question, but I am curious... if we use the past ten or twenty years as the data set, I wonder what the average would work out as? Obviously it wouldn't be entirely representative as it's a relatively short time bracket.

Not sure on which locations you mean, but I see around 24-25C for July - August London, then down to 22-23C here, then 20-21C Manchester. Glasgow 19-20C. Just estimates from 1991-2020 average and adding on like a degree.

I'd look through past months in link below for different stations to calculate more precise values which I'm not bothered to do myself on a Saturday night @Daniel* works with stats for Heathrow so he would know on the last 10 years the average july max there.

https://www.meteociel.fr/climatologie/obs_villes.php?code2=3544&mois=6&annee=2023

14 minutes ago, In Absence of True Seasons said:

Yeah. This is purely from a UK perspective though. As in, whilst 21c is a regular 'warm' summer day in Manchester, its a cool summer's day for most people across the world, as most countries have summer maxes that surpass Britain's. 

However, I think there's a sort of "average" that applies to most humans in terms of what we feel as genuinely warm, irrespective of what's a warm day for the country in question from a statistics perspective. I'd say this around 24/25c. 30c+ is hot. 

To sit in the shade with light breeze, moderate humidity, somewhere in the 24-26C is most ideal for warmth for sure, but a lot of factors come into play for everyone's perfect temperature with minimal clothing.

Edited January 6 by Metwatch

[In Absence of True Seasons]

1 hour ago, TwisterGirl81 said:

22c is a minimum temperature I’d expect during the summer months and that’s below average  in the south east.

24c Is what I would say is comfortable warmth 

What a lovely sunny day today, hopefully many more this month to come..Boost our sunshine hours and get off to a positive start baring in mind how the last 4 months have been ️ 

24-26c is my optimum range! As in, warm enough that in the evenings it'll still be mild for al fresco drinks/dinner etc, and warm enough in the day for beach / swimming, camping / whatever you fancy, whilst wearing only light layers. 

I'm happy with anything of 20c and above in summer *if* the sun is shining. Which is why July 2023 was so dire. Most days failed to reach 20c, whilst also being fully overcast. It had neither of the things that make summer days acceptable - sunshine or warmth. 

Hope you enjoyed the sun! Unfortunately in the SE in my area, the sun only shined for about an hour or so total, despite forecasts saying mostly sunny. It even rained for about 45 mins in the afternoon. 

Next week looking better...but as always if it's more than a day or so out, I take the forecasts with an entire jug of salt. 

[cheese]

The average July high at my closest station is 21.4C for the 1991-2020 period. I think that’s an okay temperature, especially with sunshine. A partly cloudy, 21/22C day is fine by me. 

My ideal summer temperature is more like 27C though. 

Edited January 6 by cheese

[Daniel*]

Yeah warm… 21C is a fresh day in July in London. I suspect with 2014-2023, July has gone down a bit it was a very high peak, but June has increased further.

[CryoraptorA303]

38 minutes ago, Daniel* said:

Yeah warm… 21C is a fresh day in July in London. I suspect with 2014-2023, July has gone down a bit it was a very high peak, but June has increased further.

I suspect the July figure is overinflated and the August figure downplayed a bit by July-centric heatwaves as of late. My guess for 2011-2030 would be v. high 24°C-low 25°C in July, high 24°C in August and mid-22°C in June, and for a bonus, v. high 20°C-low 21°C in September and low-to-mid 20°C in May. London is obviously not so continental as to see July 1.5°C warmer on average than August, inertia still plays a huge role in the climate.

[East Lancs Rain]

4 hours ago, raz.org.rain said:

18°-22°c would be a relatively cool summer day to me. Mid-twenties is nearer to what I'd expect as average. Frequent high 20s and low 30s is what I'd expect. Mid to high 30s is a pleasant treat.

Maybe that would be a realistic expectation if you lived in Barcelona! Highs of around 21/22°C is the average for Cheshire in high summer. If you are expecting frequent temps of high 20’s and low 30’s in summer in the north west of England then you’re gonna be disappointed… 

3 hours ago, Metwatch said:

Nice to see the sunshine this afternoon, perhaps more tomorrow then Tuesday / Wednesday, most welcome!

 

 

It's all relative. Those who live in interior southern Spain, low 30s would be classed as a cool day in summer. Meanwhile 26C in Reykjavík would be record breaking and those living there might even say it's "hot."

26°C and sunny feels pretty hot to me. I definitely don’t like it any hotter than that. I consider low 30’s baking hot. I imagine 20°C would be considered a heatwave up in Aberdeen or Lerwick lol.

2 hours ago, cheese said:

The average July high at my closest station is 21.4C for the 1991-2020 period. I think that’s an okay temperature, especially with sunshine. A partly cloudy, 21/22C day is fine by me. 

My ideal summer temperature is more like 27C though. 

For me it’s around 20°C, which feels very pleasant in the strong July sunshine. I guess it’s all about your preferences and what you’re used to and whether you live in the south or the north. Many southerners consider 20°C cool but for many northerners it’s shorts and t-shirt weather, especially if the sun is out.

 

4 hours ago, TwisterGirl81 said:

22c is a minimum temperature I’d expect during the summer months and that’s below average  in the south east.

24c Is what I would say is comfortable warmth 

What a lovely sunny day today, hopefully many more this month to come..Boost our sunshine hours and get off to a positive start baring in mind how the last 4 months have been ️ 

 

Im guessing around 21/22°C is the average high in Devon, so probably around 50% of the days would fail to meet your expectations.. For me 18-22°C is a comfortable range and what I expect. 23-25°C is the upper range of what I find comfortable. I can find 13-17°C comfortable enough if I’m outside walking. Of course I’m a northerner so I’m used to cooler, cloudier summers… Average high here is around 18°C in June, 20°C in July and 19°C in August. 

2 hours ago, In Absence of True Seasons said:

24-26c is my optimum range! As in, warm enough that in the evenings it'll still be mild for al fresco drinks/dinner etc, and warm enough in the day for beach / swimming, camping / whatever you fancy, whilst wearing only light layers. 

I'm happy with anything of 20c and above in summer *if* the sun is shining. Which is why July 2023 was so dire. Most days failed to reach 20c, whilst also being fully overcast. It had neither of the things that make summer days acceptable - sunshine or warmth. 

Hope you enjoyed the sun! Unfortunately in the SE in my area, the sun only shined for about an hour or so total, despite forecasts saying mostly sunny. It even rained for about 45 mins in the afternoon. 

Next week looking better...but as always if it's more than a day or so out, I take the forecasts with an entire jug of salt. 

For me, I’d say in winter:

 

Below 0C - Bitterly cold
0-2C - Very cold
3-4C - Fairly cold

5-7C - Average

8-10C - Mild

11-12C - Very mild

13C and above - Exceptionally mild

 

In summer:

Below 13C - Cold
13-15C - Very cool

16-18C - Fairly cool, can feel pleasant in the sun

19-20C - Average, pleasant 

21-22C - Fairly warm

23-25C - Very warm

26-28C - Hot

29-31C - Very hot

32C or higher - Extremely hot

 

8 hours ago, In Absence of True Seasons said:

I often toy with the idea of moving up North so I can be alot closer to all the hiking, camping and rock climbing areas I enjoy...but I genuinely don't think I'd be able to hack the climate!

Most months have barely any usable weather anyway. It's just a pain in the bum because when a spell of good weather lands, I have to make the 4/5 hour drive up from London/Essex. Be much easier if the Lake District, Peaks etc were, say, within an hour away. Can go for a hike after finishing work in summer!

Big price to pay though with the even wetter and duller climate than SE England. 

If only I'd been born in somewhere like Oregon or Northern California. *Sigh*.

Here is a guy who lives in NW England and does regular Timelapse’s, so you can watch a few of them if you wish to get a feel of the climate of NW England (and no, it’s not great)…

 

https://youtube.com/@ScottRichards10?si=NQHkHJSFokZ3O16K

 

 

Here are some Timelapse’s of our poor summer weather from recent years.

 

July 2023

 

 

June 2020

 

 

 

July 2020

 

 

 

August 2020

 

 

August 2017

 

June 2017

 

 

[Summer8906]

14 hours ago, Daniel* said:

Yeah warm… 21C is a fresh day in July in London. I suspect with 2014-2023, July has gone down a bit it was a very high peak, but June has increased further.

Is that 25.3C really correct? Given I would rate 6 of those 10 Julys average-to-poor, it's remarkable, I do wonder what the mean max would look like with 2013, 2014, 2018 and 2022 removed.

 

[Alderc 2.0]

46 minutes ago, Summer8906 said:

Is that 25.3C really correct? Given I would rate 6 of those 10 Julys average-to-poor, it's remarkable, I do wonder what the mean max would look like with 2013, 2014, 2018 and 2022 removed.

 

Yes it’s 100% correct. Average maxes below for London for each July since 2013. Really quite consistent.

2013 - 26.9C

2014 - 25.6C

2015 - 23.6C

2016 - 23.4C

2017 - 23.4C

2018 - 27.7C

2019 - 25.0C

2020 - 23.2C

2021 - 23.5C

2022 - 27.2C

2023 - 23.1C 

 

 

[In Absence of True Seasons]

1 hour ago, Summer8906 said:

Is that 25.3C really correct? Given I would rate 6 of those 10 Julys average-to-poor, it's remarkable, I do wonder what the mean max would look like with 2013, 2014, 2018 and 2022 removed.

 

I don't doubt it. 

I think that average is heavily skewed by years like 2018 and 2022 as you say. 

Many of those Julys have been quite poor too based on their cloudiness, not temperatures. Most people don't really care that it's 24c if you can't see the sun whatsoever.

[LetItSnow!]

1 hour ago, Summer8906 said:

Is that 25.3C really correct? Given I would rate 6 of those 10 Julys average-to-poor, it's remarkable, I do wonder what the mean max would look like with 2013, 2014, 2018 and 2022 removed.

 

With those years removed the average is 23.9C, so considering these are considered poor Julys in the London region, it goes to show that in terms of temperature they really haven't been cool. Interestingly, July 2023's average max of 22.8C was the coolest since July 2012 which had an average high of 21.2C

[Summer8906]

2 hours ago, Alderc 2.0 said:

Yes it’s 100% correct. Average maxes below for London for each July since 2013. Really quite consistent.

2013 - 26.9C

2014 - 25.6C

2015 - 23.6C

2016 - 23.4C

2017 - 23.4C

2018 - 27.7C

2019 - 25.0C

2020 - 23.2C

2021 - 23.5C

2022 - 27.2C

2023 - 23.1C 

 

Interesting, most of those in the "poor" years are between 2 and 3C higher than I would have expected. 2019 at 25 seems especially high, much higher than I would have expected for a very so-so month, but presumably skewed by those 2 or 3 days of extreme heat.

I suspect southern Hampshire has indeed has mean maxes 2-3C lower than London in the other 6 years (I'd guess around 21-22 in a typical contemporary year, with many days below 20); if so it shows how much warmer London is these days. 

Edited January 7 by Summer8906