The 'no Storms Club' 2009

[Thundery wintry showers]

There were two big storms in the Tyne & Wear area in 2005- the 19th June and 31st August. The 19th June was more hit and miss/showery but delivered huge rainfall totals where it hit, while 31st August 2005 consumed the entire region. I was away from the region on both occasions, and felt cheated on 19 June when I got just a few rumbles in Lancaster, but on the 31st August I was in Leeds and they got a storm of comparable intensity. I cannot whinge about being storm-starved though, because I've seen plenty big ones during my holidays on the continent and my times spent in Leeds and Norwich.

It seems that the biggest storms hit Tyne and Wear, generally speaking, in Spanish plume situations when there is a pronounced airflow vectored between S and SW, where storms develop over the SW and track northwards and eastwards. Both of the 2005 storms had this setup.

The other setup to watch out for is those slack cyclonic/westerly regimes with an absence of fronts, indicating sunshine and showers. A paradox for much of Britain from Yorkshire southwards is that the west tends to see more showers in such setups, but the showers that do get across to the east tend to be more intense (hence areas west of the Midlands tending not to see as many storms). It doesn't happen as often in Tyne & Wear but under favourable circumstances it is certainly possible. Newcastle Weather Centre reported five consecutive thunder-days from such a regime on 22-26 June 1980. Cleadon had four consecutive thunder-days as recently as 1-4 July 2007 from that setup, though in each case it was just a few rumbles.

I reckon places like Newcastle and Durham probably average a day or two more per year with thunder as compared with coastal locations because the North Sea tends to keep more storms away from the coast in summer than it generates in winter. Given that Cleadon averages a steady 7 thunder-days per year, the figure for Newcastle and Durham may thus be 8 or 9 days which is on a par with two other places I've lived- Lancaster and Exeter.

[Geordiesnow]

Hi Nigel.

Tried to find a YouTube storm for Tyne and Wear.

All I got was frickin' trains!!

It just tells you Phil, how rare storms are here so anyone who is moaning about a lack of storms, try living up here!

More chance of seeing lightning in an easterly set up than in a typical sunshine and shower set up.

Just to menturn a bit about TWS post, the period of consective days of thunder heard there was some lightning on the 4th, one flash was overhead and on that day we had a couple of torrential downpours. Not sure if it was in the same period but i seem to remember a thundery shower just to the North of me and saw quite a few of CG & CC lightning, decent little storm that was. I'll see if i can find my posts from those days as i am sure i posted on those days.

Edited May 30, 2009 by Geordiesnow

[Harry]

Sunday 15th July 2007, during the evening between 8-10pm?

I could see bright orange flashes continuously, and occasional forks from a massive cell over east Kent. Heard no thunder here, but the lightning display from this distance was amazing. I managed to capture it on film (well some if it) but because it was filmed at 9:45pm it is quite difficult to make out certain features. The orange blobs are streetlights, but you can see some orange fork lightning at times.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np5I4URv2qo...re=channel_page

The vid may be a little boring as the activity was dying by then but still some impressive lightning from all parts of the anvil

Wasn't this one MW, though looked similar - bright and frequent orange flashes. The storm I saw was to my W and then NW towards London. I can't be sure if I am confusing events, but there was one night in particular when there was a big storm over London, and then storms to my far East which ran up towards Essex, which also produced some quite nice lightning, up into the anvil too! Was a dusky blue sky above me in between it all, lol

Edited May 30, 2009 by Harry

[Geordiesnow]

Just to menturn a bit about TWS post, the period of consective days of thunder heard there was some lightning on the 4th, one flash was overhead and on that day we had a couple of torrential downpours. Not sure if it was in the same period but i seem to remember a thundery shower just to the North of me and saw quite a few of CG & CC lightning, decent little storm that was. I'll see if i can find my posts from those days as i am sure i posted on those days.

I tried to find my posts but i only could find this one, there was another topic i started for an unexpected ''storm'' on the 19th July 08 but there was only 3 flashes and one rumble of thunder so not as excited as i was when i done the post below.

Post your storm reports here:

To start the thread i had an overhead flash of lightning and bang with torrential rain, gusts which flooded here in 10mins. There were some gusty winds also throw in for good measure so overall i'm happy :o

Obviously i got that excited that parts of my post did not make sence!

Well you could move further south, I know I probably would. If you love storms then you owe it to yourself to move somewhere where storms are more frequent such as the SE or Midlands. Even in Winter, the Midlands get some pretty heavy snow although it's not as common as years gone by.

I think if I lived up North I wouln't have been so interested in the stormy side of weather or weather in general. Something has to spark your interest and for me it was being scared of storms as a kid but still wanting them to come back. Plus more importantly they came by on a regualr basis in the summer.

I don't think i could move south, where i live is a good location for snow and plus i lived here since i was born, it would be very difficult for me to move elsewhere at the moment just so i can see more storms. I'm not ruling out storm chasing in the future though.

[Harry]

I don't think i could move south, where i live is a good location for snow and plus i lived here since i was born, it would be very difficult for me to move elsewhere at the moment just so i can see more storms. I'm not ruling out storm chasing in the future though.

Nah move to the SE! Hotter temperatures and more/better storms, AND we get snow too :o

Edited May 30, 2009 by Harry

[Costa Del Fal]

Tbh the Midlands & SE are very similar overall in terms of snow, storms and temperatures. End of.

On the other and i still feel sorry for those who havent had a storm this year yet!

Edited May 30, 2009 by Blizzards

[maidstone weather]

Tbh the Midlands & SE are very similar overall in terms of snow, storms and temperatures. End of.

On the other ahnd i still feel sorry for those who havent had a storm this year yet!

thanks :lol:

I think it's almost fair to say the Midlands do slightly better than the SE in terms of snow

In terms of storms, using the SE and the Midlands as a whole region rather than individual locations, i think they are pretty much equal. B)

[Costa Del Fal]

thanks :lol:

I think it's almost fair to say the Midlands do slightly better than the SE in terms of snow

In terms of storms, using the SE and the Midlands as a whole region rather than individual locations, i think they are pretty much equal. B)

I agree 100%!

[Thundery wintry showers]

More chance of seeing lightning in an easterly set up than in a typical sunshine and shower set up.

I think that's only true for certain areas of the country (with Exeter being one of them). For the Tyne & Wear area I don't remember many storms from the east at all- the North Sea tends to keep storms away from the area when the winds are off the sea. Similarly in Norfolk a sunshine and shower setup seems the better bet- although with Spanish plumes being best of all.

For storms, I think the highest frequency of storms is to be found around Lincolnshire & East Anglia- although the optimal location for intense storms is probably Kent/Sussex because they get the most continental imports. But in truth much of the Midlands, Yorks, East Lancs and SE England also seem to get a fair number of storms. If, on the other hand, you want plenty of convective weather but aren't too fussed about thunderstorms, then west is generally best.

The SE had a fair amount of snow last winter but as a general rule it snows more frequently and reliably up north. The mean annual frequency of lying snow at London is about the same as it is at Blackpool and Liverpool.

At the moment my favourite location for climate in the UK is probably Norwich, which is certainly up there with the UK's thunder hotspots, and gets a fair amount of snow considering that it's in the south- but the mean annual frequency of snow cover there is merely about the same as it is on the coastal fringes of Tyneside. The problem with suggesting moving to certain areas, unfortunately, is that most of us are constrained by jobs and relationships.

[Phil UK]

Better storms? so I take it you've lived in all parts of the country for a good few summers to make that statement. The SE gets the higher frequency of storms but to say you get better storms, what kind of storms do you get down there that, say, the Midlands doesn't get?

Hi Weather09.

Selly Oak 1999 ... I saw that cell develop over Solihull. One of the hottest days I can ever recall on a par to 10th August 2003. Next thing I know was on Central News of a F2 tornado ripping up bits of Selly Oak.

I did see what was predominantly CC/spider lightning but never suspected it being capable of a tornado, bearing in mind it developed out of nowhere.

I could say B'ham gets bigger storms, got an F2 tornado in 2005 but that's rare. I'm not starting this Midlands v SE thing, that's childish but I'm just wondering what you base your statement on. Is it on higher amounts of CG lightning, bigger hail, supercells??

29th July 2005 : Kings Heath...

After a morning of heavy rain and a thundery development behind it... It kicked off big time. Oddly enough I was meant to be in that area at that time. (Still now kicking myself because of other circumstances, I wasn't!)

Phil.

[Harry]

Wow - didnt realise I would hit such a nerve! lol...it was a jokey comment btw, hence the cheeky :lol: I didn't realise I would hit such a nerve...

But anyway, as I am being asked to justify, and feel free to correct me if I am wrong:

1. We do get snow in the SE - had well over a foot this year (not a regular occurrence, but nonetheless). Hope that justifies that comment.

2. SE in the summer, on average, is hotter than the Midlands - I thought that was a pretty much established fact tbh. Hottest recorded UK temperatures both before the 2003 record, AND the 2003 record, were in the SE. More often than not also, London/Kent/Surrey in particular top the temperature charts in the country. Not necessarily by much, but higher nonetheless.

3. Night time temperatures on average, are also warmer in the SE than the Midlands. Again, I thought that was a pretty much established fact. You only have to watch most tv forecasts to see this!?

4. Storms - this is obviously subjective, depending on whether you as a person define 'better' storms as cloud height, how photogenic, lightning frequency, lightning type (spider, anvil crawlers etc), hail size etc. Now, I cant say I have ever seen 'huge hail', but I have certainly seen some spectacular lightning displays (anvil crawlers, spider etc) and certainly some very frequent lightning. We get quite a number of imports including MCS' every year along with numerous home growns in the SE - last time I checked the Midlands wasn't AS exposed to the very active imported MCS' as the SE, but I concede you will get some nonetheless.. Aug 6th last year, had a reported strike rate of 120 strikes per MINUTE as the storms first made landfall. 4 hours of action later (and the rain stopping) I went outside and calculated a strike rate of 26+ strikes per minute. Now, if you get storms like that in the Midlands, then I will accept these are not 'better' than Midlands storms and hold my hands up and withdraw my comments with immediate effect.

I note also, that the SE gets a high number of elevated storms in the form of imports, which makes for good lightning viewing. In my experience, they tend to be less shielded by heavy precip.

5. Tornadoes - Birmingham had the tornado of 2005, London had the tornado of 2007 (or 2006 ) - I have also witnessed two funnel clouds in Kent, one in particular a very defined rope leading about half the way (or more) to the ground.

Now I get the impression (again, correct me if I am wrong) through a jestful comment I have upset some people. If Geordiesnow and any other 'storm starved' people wish to move to Midlands, please don't let my rash and unjustifiable comments put you off moving to there B)

Edited May 30, 2009 by Harry

[Geordiesnow]

I think that's only true for certain areas of the country (with Exeter being one of them). For the Tyne & Wear area I don't remember many storms from the east at all- the North Sea tends to keep storms away from the area when the winds are off the sea. Similarly in Norfolk a sunshine and shower setup seems the better bet- although with Spanish plumes being best of all.

Sorry i should of worded my post better when i said an easterly set up with sunshine and showers i mean in winter time, lightning was recorded during the morning of the 02/02/09 during a heavy snow shower. I think it is true what i said in many ways as whenever we get a day of sunshine and showers forecast in summer, sea breezes tend to stop showers getting this far east or we have some other spoiler which stops storms to develop.

Still who knows, i wouldnt be surprised if i stay in the no storms club for the whole of summer.

[Harry]

You do sound Geordiesnow like the NE gets very much the raw end of the deal...

May I suggest you consider moving south, to say the Midlands

[Thundery wintry showers]

Sorry i should of worded my post better when i said an easterly set up with sunshine and showers i mean in winter time, lightning was recorded during the morning of the 02/02/09 during a heavy snow shower. I think it is true what i said in many ways as whenever we get a day of sunshine and showers forecast in summer, sea breezes tend to stop showers getting this far east or we have some other spoiler which stops storms to develop.

Still who knows, i wouldnt be surprised if i stay in the no storms club for the whole of summer.

Ah I see now- that makes rather more sense! I think you are probably right in the sense that if you take an individual winter day with a cold unstable easterly over the warm sea, versus an individual summer day with a sunshine-and-showers setup, the probability of getting a storm is probably higher in the former scenario. Somewhat appropriately, the previous notable instance of a snowy easterly outbreak- 3 January 2008- also had scattered reports of thundersnow across the region. I always relish the prospect of a potent northerly in November in Tyneside (or Norwich for that matter) as they also tend to produce a lot of thundery activity around North Sea areas- as illustrated last November!

Re the arguments about thunderstorms in the Midlands versus south-east England, the Midlands gets roughly the same annual frequency of thunderstorms, but on average they tend to be less intense. But with regards snow in the SE it really depends on whereabouts in the SE. Kent and Sussex are good for snow in easterly setups (especially when the wind is a bit north of due east) and if you count East Anglia as being SE then the centre-north of East Anglia is quite prone to snow from both north and east. But in London, snow is rare and the 2nd February 2009 event there was exceptional.

[Harry]

Re the arguments about thunderstorms in the Midlands versus south-east England, the Midlands gets roughly the same annual frequency of thunderstorms, but on average they tend to be less intense. But with regards snow in the SE it really depends on whereabouts in the SE. Kent and Sussex are good for snow in easterly setups (especially when the wind is a bit north of due east) and if you count East Anglia as being SE then the centre-north of East Anglia is quite prone to snow from both north and east. But in London, snow is rare and the 2nd February 2009 event there was exceptional.

Very true - I live in the western most area of Kent and due to the London UHI, snow is less frequent than further East in Kent.

That said I do live on higher ground than E Kent so in some ways this compensates - this year, as has happened quite often over the years, literally one mile to my West it was raining, yet where I live it was snowing. Amazing to see how the UHI and a slight change in land affects the precip!

I'm not upset over what you said Harry, nither did you hit a nerve. Its just you said the SE gets better storms and I asked how you can make such a statement without having lived in different parts of the country for a decent length of time.

This is not a region war , I love storms and I would happily go down to the SE if I could, since there is a higher frequecy of storms down there and also EA. I've seen vids on youtube of big storms in the SE with anvil crawlers, big CGs, window-breaking loud thunder and hailstorms. But the thing is, I've seen all of that many times before as well as towering cumulonimbus clouds with a huge anvil spread out like a pancake

Though I haven't seen funnel clouds or tornadoes, I have witnessed rotation of the clouds, but that's about it.

However much I love this forum, there is nothing that beats face to face conversation - with written text you can seldom tell if something is in jest or grasp inflection...if anyone ever uses CAPITALS you get "why are you shouting at me?"...lol

Any time I go abroad, or elsewhere in the UK, I always hope to see a thunderstorm. The only places away from the SE I've seen storms are Kuala Lumpur and Minneapolis (not bad places to witness storms to be fair). Its safe to say that whatever the SE get or the Midlands get...they won!

Edited May 30, 2009 by Harry

[Phil UK]

No need at all to justify, Harry. Some years fare better in your part of the UK, then in other years the Midlands does.

June 1993 I think was a cataclysmic year for thunderstorms in the SE. One in particular over London brought on respiratory difficulties.

But that said, Thundersnow and that 28th January, brought about by a northerly flow, as soon as those showers hit, or nearly hit the south coast, they intensified with thunderstorms breaking out as they made the rapid movement into northern France.

Another occasion back in Summer 2006, thunderstorms developed widely over the Midlands, moved north and over the Pennines giving extra uplift made for some pretty violent storms that night from Yorkshire and northwards after that.

I got told off for that the following day. But We Midlanders aim to please! :lol:

The irony being that developed over the Midlands, I saw sod all of it!

Phil.

[Harry]

Another occasion back in Summer 2006, thunderstorms developed widely over the Midlands, moved north and over the Pennines giving extra uplift made for some pretty violent storms that night from Yorkshire and northwards after that.

I got told off for that the following day. But We Midlanders aim to please!

The irony being that developed over the Midlands, I saw sod all of it!

Very true PhilUK, 2006 despite the intense heatwave brought comparitively very little for my part of the SE.

It is so frustrating when you see storms move past time after time and not hit you!?

I go to Portugal for a week from 19th - 26th June - my area of the SE will get some great T'storms while I am in one of the sunniest (and stormless) parts of Europe..you heard it here first chaps!!

Edited May 30, 2009 by Harry

[Phil UK]

No Summer at all, Weather09. In fact it was one of the wettest Augusts I can ever recall. 2008 was wet also but not as bad as the previous year.

Although very rainy, excuse the term (but it was!) It was more like heavy rain with occasional rumbles of thunder embedded rather than separate thunderstorms. (Or to be more pedantic, thundery rain!)

The following month, (6th September!) myself, family and a friend trekked down to Exmouth by coach for a week. The day of the 5th and most of the 6th did see some really heavy rain. And I saw first hand what the flooding in Gloucestershire and Worcestershire looked like. Grassy fields looked like swimming pools. (Will look for the pics I took at that point in time and post them on here).

But the irony being that on the same day we travelled south west, a bloody great thunderstorm hit my part of the world.

Sod's Law or what?

Phil.

[kaz]

oh a great club, i dont feel so alone now oct 08 was the last time i saw lightning, i am starting to forget what live lightning looks like ... will start creating some of my own if this keeps up.

kaz x

[Phil UK]

Kaz, just stick some metal object in your microwave, switch on and watch the sparks fly.

Although I don't personally recommend that you attempt that experiment. Can cost you a microwave oven and some messed up metal material!

Phil. (I tried it myself once out of sheer curiosity, one stinking microwave oven was the result!)

[Jane Louise]

oh a great club, i dont feel so alone now oct 08 was the last time i saw lightning, i am starting to forget what live lightning looks like :blush: ... will start creating some of my own if this keeps up.

kaz x

Welcome Kaz,

Let's hope you are not in the No storms club for too long like the rest of us. I'm getting desperate now for a piece of the action. lol

[maidstone weather]

I'm still in

I'm getting desperate - any distant rumble of thunder counts as a storm here! :blush:

Edited June 2, 2009 by maidstone weather

[Dorsetbred]

Count me in

[Guest North Sea Snow Convection]

Yesterday afternoon I drove down to the coast at Hastings and looking out to sea in the distance on the horizon were some coppery coloured congested cumulus clouds and a fibrous anvil spreading out from it - direction due south east. I guessed at a possible storm/thundery shower over Northern France coast/mainland area?

[kaz]

I'm still in

I'm getting desperate - any distant rumble of thunder counts as a storm here!

strobe lighting and a low flying jet counts as one here lmao.. 0% here AGAIN today.. what really bug's me is we seem to set them all up and knock them on to other parts.. Had towers going up like crazy yesterday then fall as quickly as they went up grrr and double grr...

lol kaz x