Spring 2023 - Moans, Ramps & Chat

[MP-R]

The state of the water infrastructure in this country would be laughable if it weren’t so serious…

If March continues as it is, 5 out of the last 6 months would have had above average rainfall. ‘Drought’ shouldn’t even be a featured word after that much rain.

[kold weather]

7 minutes ago, MP-R said:

The state of the water infrastructure in this country would be laughable if it weren’t so serious…

If March continues as it is, 5 out of the last 6 months would have had above average rainfall. ‘Drought’ shouldn’t even be a featured word after that much rain.

The problem is alot of that rainfall has come in bursts that have not always been steady enough to help deeper ground reserves. We've had several quite lengthy dry spells this winter which has dried thongs out again.

with that being said alot of the worry about drought stems from that met office forecast of a higher risk of a dry spring. Too early to know whether that will be a bust forecast, but it will need a considerable drying out spell for us to be decently below average even this early into the season, so I think some of 5he worst case scenario might not cone off.

Still a significantly warm and/or dry summer will still stretch things, particularly away from the far south (which is actually now running a 12 month surplus) and more typically wet parts further north/west.

[Nick L]

3 minutes ago, kold weather said:

The problem is alot of that rainfall has come in bursts that have not always been steady enough to help deeper ground reserves. We've had several quite lengthy dry spells this winter which has dried thongs out again.

with that being said alot of the worry about drought stems from that met office forecast of a higher risk of a dry spring. Too early to know whether that will be a bust forecast, but it will need a considerable drying out spell for us to be decently below average even this early into the season, so I think some of 5he worst case scenario might not cone off.

Still a significantly warm and/or dry summer will still stretch things, particularly away from the far south (which is actually now running a 12 month surplus) and more typically wet parts further north/west.

I don't want to ask why yours were soggy.

[Gowon]

26 minutes ago, MP-R said:

The state of the water infrastructure in this country would be laughable if it weren’t so serious…

If March continues as it is, 5 out of the last 6 months would have had above average rainfall. ‘Drought’ shouldn’t even be a featured word after that much rain.

Last summer was a struggle - I'm seriously thinking of getting an underground rain water storage tank installed in my garden. 

[lassie23]

Is there any more snow this spring

[MP-R]

6 minutes ago, Gowon said:

Last summer was a struggle - I'm seriously thinking of getting an underground rain water storage tank installed in my garden. 

True... although last summer came off the back of a dry winter and dry spring. This summer would need to be even drier to present the same problem.

[TwisterGirl81]

I am so ready for some warm sunny weather this cool damp weather is so depressing, after 6 months of autumn and winter I am beyond ready for spring to hurry up and get here!  March and sometimes April always feels like such a drag waiting for some proper warmth to arrive

[alexisj9]

2 hours ago, al78 said:

The irony of worrying about drought conditions in the UK when there were around 100 flood alerts across the UK recently. Are the water companies managing to save some of this water?

At the moment soil looks wet, but have a dig, you'll see the water isn't getting very deep yet since last summer's hot weather. Water tables are basically very low, most flooding has been down to water staying on the surface, rather than soaking in.

[Methuselah]

IMO, it can rain all it likes during spring, but water-holding capacity is limited; so, another searing summer will see us short again as demand increases exponentially. It's high time our esteemed water-company bosses started investing in infrastructure instead of the Cayman Islands! 

[alexisj9]

2 hours ago, LetItSnow! said:

It’s interesting reading it being so dull because I haven’t really noticed it and I’m usually one to notice when a month has been dull. I’m gonna be honest, I’ve not found March 2023 a struggle that much. I think I’m just accepting that this time of year often brings trying conditions. I am thankful for the rain after a very dry February and hope the spring continues being very wet. Wet springs usually bring quite a lot of showery, thundery weather, so that’s something a lot of people could enjoy. I do enjoy calming days of frontal rain and grey skies, I cherish them just as much as sunny days. In my opinion, we haven’t recovered just quite enough to be wanting overly dry conditions to be honest. I’d honestly take a wet summer and a wet year. I’ve noticed that in previous times we’d go through 2-5 years of wet weather then 2-5 of dry weather but since 2012 we’ve mainly seen above average rainfall and dry periods often short and followed by wet weather. 2022 was the first properly dry we had since 2011… I’m wondering if this is the start of a couple years of dry weather or whether we’ll just go back to generally wet conditions. I’ll be interested to see how 2023 pans out. 

It hasn't been dull where I am, a few full days here and there, but also plenty of sun. Perhaps you've been lucky in missing the dull area too.

[lassie23]

2 minutes ago, Methuselah said:

IMO, it can rain all it likes during spring, but water-holding capacity is limited; so, another searing summer will see us short again as demand increases exponentially. It's high time our esteemed water-company bosses started investing in infrastructure instead of the Cayman Islands! 

Which is where most have second homes lol

5 minutes ago, TwisterGirl81 said:

I am so ready for some warm sunny weather this cool damp weather is so depressing, after 6 months of autumn and winter I am beyond ready for spring to hurry up and get here!  March and sometimes April always feels like such a drag waiting for some proper warmth to arrive

One last major blizzard for Devon, here's hoping lol

[matt111]

It’s been a very dull month here so far. Apart from Tuesday and today which have had a decent amount of sun I haven’t seen much sun at all. 

[alexisj9]

10 minutes ago, MP-R said:

True... although last summer came off the back of a dry winter and dry spring. This summer would need to be even drier to present the same problem.

Not really as re the water table, we are still playing catch up.

[al78]

7 minutes ago, alexisj9 said:

At the moment soil looks wet, but have a dig, you'll see the water isn't getting very deep yet since last summer's hot weather. Water tables are basically very low, most flooding has been down to water staying on the surface, rather than soaking in.

River flows have reversed from the situation in February when they were extremely low across the UK:

UK Water Resources Portal

EIP.CEH.AC.UK

---

A web tool for displaying water resources and drought information from the UK Centre for Ecology & Hydrology.

I am going to have a go at preparing my allotment for cultivation this coming weekend. I'll find out how wet the soil is. If it is quite dry sub surface it will mean I can get the perennial weeds out without harming the soil structure too much.

[alexisj9]

Just now, al78 said:

River flows have reversed from the situation in February when they were extremely low across the UK:

UK Water Resources Portal

EIP.CEH.AC.UK

---

A web tool for displaying water resources and drought information from the UK Centre for Ecology & Hydrology.

I am going to have a go at preparing my allotment for cultivation this coming weekend. I'll find out how wet the soil is. If it is quite dry sub surface it will mean I can get the perennial weeds out without harming the soil structure too much.

That's good to hear, when the rain stops again, will that continue?

[al78]

13 minutes ago, MP-R said:

True... although last summer came off the back of a dry winter and dry spring. This summer would need to be even drier to present the same problem.

Not really, the summer 1976 drought was exasperated by the previous dry summer and winter which primed the country for drought.

[MP-R]

4 minutes ago, alexisj9 said:

Not really as re the water table, we are still playing catch up.

Yes really. We're more times than not catching up, but this year we're catching up from much higher levels than last year.

Just now, al78 said:

Not really, the summer 1976 drought was exasperated by the previous dry summer and winter which primed the country for drought.

... an intervening winter which was predominantly dry. We've just had a wet autumn and a largely wet winter (save for Feb).

[al78]

3 minutes ago, MP-R said:

... an intervening winter which was predominantly dry. We've just had a wet autumn and a largely wet winter (save for Feb).

You are half right. Autumn was wet but winter has been dry, biased heavily by February but December and January were about average, arguably not enough rain to compensate for the deficit accumulated over the previous year.

I get the impression in the UK that a lack of investment over previous decades is not starting to manifest itself with a lack of resiliance to any deviations from normality. I feel this is something that really needs to be looked into otherwise we are going to keep having repeated shocks to our infrastructure causing inconvenience/hardship for people.

[Summer8906]

1 hour ago, Nick L said:

I don't think anyone is "moaning" about it? We have had a significant rainfall deficit over the last years despite a couple of very wet months thrown in. it's simply a matter of fact rather than moaning. The situation has eased over recent months but a dry spring would bring us close to some real problems in the summer. Like it or not, we do need continued regular rainfall before the warmer months arrive.

But the main cause of this is a lack of investment in our water infrastructure, I refuse to accept that we should constantly be at the edge of water shortages in a country that receives so much rainfall!

Absolutely, don't get me started on Southern Water.

It's a bit strange that countries with far less rain seem to manage.

I think it also depends on where in the country you are. Central southern England has not had it especially dry, as the above graphic shows; a wet autumn and an average winter. I believe that the only month to register below-average rainfall in the Sep-Feb period was February, and with March surely certain to be above average, that will make 6 wetter-than-average months in the past 7. 

Plus, before that, May-July, October and December 2021 and May 2022 were all, IIRC, varying degrees of wet, while August 2021, February and March 2022 were close to average. ISTR June 2022 wasn't that dry, either.

Edited March 16, 2023 by Summer8906

[Methuselah]

Well, there's plenty of surplus water in Lochs Ness and Lomond. So as long as our eagerly-anticipated high-speed rail network is up and running (hopefully, before the sun goes nova) everything will be okay -- water will get from Scotland to London in under five hours.

Move along; nothing to see here! 

Edited March 16, 2023 by Methuselah

[Summer8906]

31 minutes ago, alexisj9 said:

It hasn't been dull where I am, a few full days here and there, but also plenty of sun. Perhaps you've been lucky in missing the dull area too.

Here the 2nd and 14th were sunny, and there have been just bits of sun on other days - a little Sunday morning and a little yesterday morning. Other days were, IIRC, pretty much continuously cloudy.

However, today, despite the dire-looking synoptics, is surprisingly bright. I guess the low is so far west that the air has tracked a long way south and dried out over France. "erPm" air - extreme returning polar-maritime. If we get locked into this setup, with the lows that bit further west, then it wouldn't be so bad even if we continue to get frontal rain. Sadly this particular low is scheduled to track east so I suspect tomorrow and Saturday will deliver the expected dull, damp grot.

Edited March 16, 2023 by Summer8906

[*Stormforce~beka*]

41 minutes ago, lassie23 said:

Is there any more snow this spring

bugger orf lol

[Summer8906]

1 hour ago, MP-R said:

The state of the water infrastructure in this country would be laughable if it weren’t so serious…

Two 48-hour outages since mid-Dec. As I said, don't get me started on Southern Water. Abysmal company, and the CEO was payed a half-million pound bonus recently. For what exactly? "Delivering value to shareholders by reducing wasteful infrastructure spending", doubtless.

1 hour ago, MP-R said:

If March continues as it is, 5 out of the last 6 months would have had above average rainfall. ‘Drought’ shouldn’t even be a featured word after that much rain.

6 of the last 7 here, in fact.

2 minutes ago, *Stormforce~beka* said:

bugger orf lol

Oh I don't know. I quite like a spring which mixes warm, sunny weather with the occasional short-lived snowfall.

[MP-R]

23 minutes ago, al78 said:

You are half right. Autumn was wet but winter has been dry, biased heavily by February but December and January were about average, arguably not enough rain to compensate for the deficit accumulated over the previous year.

I get the impression in the UK that a lack of investment over previous decades is not starting to manifest itself with a lack of resiliance to any deviations from normality. I feel this is something that really needs to be looked into otherwise we are going to keep having repeated shocks to our infrastructure causing inconvenience/hardship for people.

As acknowledged above, we're still not in an optimal position but much better than this time last year after the wet autumn and winter. Despite Feb being almost devoid of rainfall, December and January were still above average, despite the rain concentrating itself in the last and first two weeks respectively.

As for the water companies, that's probably a debate for a thread in itself, but a friend of mine who works for Wessex Water has iterated that they are not worried about water supplies at the moment for this neck of the woods. I'm sure eastern areas will be very different but us lot here are not in a bad situation yet.

13 minutes ago, Summer8906 said:

 

6 of the last 7 here, in fact.

 

Yes you're right. I apparently can't count. 

[TwisterGirl81]

1 hour ago, Methuselah said:

IMO, it can rain all it likes during spring, but water-holding capacity is limited; so, another searing summer will see us short again as demand increases exponentially. It's high time our esteemed water-company bosses started investing in infrastructure instead of the Cayman Islands! 

Well rumour has it since South west water was privatised no new reservoirs have been built, anything to do with energy, health and water should be nationalised not privatised, let this be a warning to us all.

Edited March 16, 2023 by TwisterGirl81